I debated with Aron Ra ( angelmou) at the comments section of this video about our different worldviews:
And, resumed, the positive arguments that supposedly sustain his worldview without a creator, are these:
The universe is the embodiment of NON-Creation
An embodiment of a beginning as very first not caused timeframe has no prior cause to it AT ALL. It is just the first time frame incarnate. WIthout any prior thing, event or state upfront of it. ;-)
Nonsense talk there was no literal nothing state - because the universe did not come from anywhere else
There is no fine tuning
Chance of random chemical reactions to setup amino-acid polypeptide chains to produce functional proteins" are explained by lipid chemistry by chemical selection in lipid versicles
The gentic information stored in the first living cell emerged naturally
The acids chain by magnetic + and - charges
+ / - bounding and chaining is a basic physical observation
All what exists is naturally.
The cells you refer to were ALREADY a subset of already existing coacervates-
Chemistry works as it does.
There are chemical laws
glycine amino acids, pyrimidines, DNA - all those forms got selected in fat bubbles called cells to sustain.
interlocking of complexity in abiogenesis models.
Polypetides work in lipids and not outside.
interlocked codes into different directions.
interlocking of complexity mechanism
Interlocking of complexity is a PREDICTION of evolution
Complexity slowly accumulated
The development of organelles is by symbiosis, endosymbiosis not random
Evolution can of course interlock a system so that you can't take parts out of it without crashing the system
common ancestry is readable true in this code as well.
lifeforms are selected by darwinian evolution
The mechanism itself are under natural selection they are not outside of it.
repurposement of former ancestral form.
Species speciate as variations of former forms and there is no creator.
humans are right now in this moment an ape species.
Personality needs a brain
Brains are minds
There is in my view so much wrong in all these claims.... They can be filtered and resumed as follows:
1. The universe HAD a beginning. The demand that it must have had therefore a cause, stands. Nothing has no causal powers, and claiming that the universe, or singularity just was, is not convincing.
2. The universe IS finely tuned for life - despite your denial. That demands an explanation.
ORIGIN OF LIFE
2. chemical reactions
3. interlocked complexity
do NOT explain the origin of life. These are all JUST SO, not supported claims by you. Anywhere did you acknowledge that DNA stores INSTRUCTIONAL COMPLEX information to make Cell factories. And THESE instructions need a compelling, plausible explanation.
common ancestry, accumulating complexity, endosymbiosis, interlocked systems through evolution, selection by darwinian evolution, speciation, are all common terms used in biology, which share wide accepance, but are disputed by the foremost biologists in the field. Some like Gerd Mueller have come to acknowledge that, the make of complex organisms a view from systems biology, not a reduced toolkit provided solely by genetics.
"Being cannot come from non-being." Yeah agreed.
"Since we exist, then being has always been in one form or another."
Yeah but the term "always" can mean both:
a finite number of timeframes without any cause (including your god as such a cause you just want to deny God is also excluded)
A endless chain of infinte timeframes without a cause (which is ALSO including your god as not any of such causes, where you just want to deny God is excluded, too)
"Since the universe had a beginning,"
Nanana. An infinite chain of timeframes never had a beginning.
And NEITHER did a first timeframe which is the oldest absolute beginning itself without any further beginning any side beginning, any meta beginning any supernatural beginning etc.
" a non-physical being must have existed"
Super-natural/meta-natural "entities" are only able to "metaexist" not to merely exist.
Regular natural existence would actually be some sort of an insult towards those hypothetical entities.
To use a clear "supernatural" language of terminology.
And no we do not assume any need for those, because it just adds an unnecessary layer to reality - where it also denies the embodiment of the uncausedness of either an infinite chain or a finite number of timeframes with adding just the supernatural on top of it.
No need for that nonsense.
" beyond the universe, causing the universe into existence."
There was no "causing" because reality is just the embodiment of non-creation without even any need for thinking about anything above, beyond or metalayers on top of it.
"That being is God."
You mean just 1 single super-being/metabeing shall meta-exist/superexist (ignoring other god/s, angels, demons blahblah) and this meta/super entity shall cause regular existence - just because you wish it would meta-exist/super-exist, which was never needed - simply because our existence is just the embodiment of non-creation. Without any "meta-cause" at all.
"Syllogistic - Arguments of Gods existence based on positive evidence"
Clear your own language.
De facto do you not argue for an "existence" of the supernatural aka God ideas.
You argue for a meta/super existence of such God/s as meta-entitites/super entities in an additional layer put artifically onto our world.
But they were never needed, because a question of any of their possible "meta existence/super existence" remains always unnecessary.
At least till you are able to put any claimed meta-entity/super entity on a dissection table to dissect or "meta-dissect/supernatural" dissect them with proper tools/supernature-tools.
So when you have instead of a knife to put a meat body open to show organs you present us a "meta/supernatural knife" to literally rip a god open to show its meta-organs/supernature organs - you have no further argument.
You can me invite to your gallery when you catched the devil and ripped his supernatural/meta body apart with a super-natural tool, like a meta-knife or so to present me the meta/super nature organs of the devil in petri dishes or so. Then you would have an argument.
Last edited by Admin on Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:42 pm; edited 6 times in total