Intelligent Design, the best explanation of Origins
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
Intelligent Design, the best explanation of Origins

This is my personal virtual library, where i collect information, which leads in my view to Intelligent Design as the best explanation of the origin of the physical Universe, life, and biodiversity


You are not connected. Please login or register

Intelligent Design, the best explanation of Origins » Bible / Christian faith / Apologetics » Shroud of Turin

Shroud of Turin

Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 2]

1Shroud of Turin Empty Shroud of Turin on Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:16 pm

Otangelo


Admin
The shroud of Turin EXTRAORDINARY evidence of Christ's resurrection
https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t1688-shroud-of-turin


One common claim of atheists is that 'there is NO evidence of the historical Jesus'' Because ALL the Bible and ancient writings of Jesus could be written by anyone and were written by so many people, years after the events, which could easily be made up.

The Gospels of Matthew,[27:59–60] Mark,[15:46] and Luke[23:53] state that Joseph of Arimathea wrapped the body of Jesus in a piece of linen cloth and placed it in a new tomb. The Gospel of John[19:38–40] refers to strips of linen used by Joseph of Arimathea and states that Apostle Peter found multiple pieces of burial cloth after the tomb was found open, strips of linen cloth for the body and a separate cloth for the head.[20:6–7]

The shroud provides to the lost world the forensic facts and evidence of the horror of Jesus going to the cross. The Shroud bears the ultimate triumph of the Resurrection of Jesus (Yeshua) meaning Salvation. All this is recorded supernaturally on The Shroud of Turin, which proves the Holy Bible to be forensically accurate and perfectly reliable in every possible way.

By virtue of their substance and form, physical objects require no faith whatsoever. They can be observed, examined, touched, and even smelled. -- This is the very opposite of "faith." Thomas was not commended or blessed because he had "seen" Jesus after the resurrection, but those who believe WITHOUT SEEING ARE! (John 20:29)

The Shroud and the jew: Barrie Schwortz at TEDx ViadellaConciliazione
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G4sj8hUVaY

The Shroud of Turin is NOT A FORGERY FROM THE 14th century, as following amazing evidence will demonstrate. It is a length of linen cloth bearing the negative image of a man,  which based on overwhelming evidence points to be Jesus of Nazareth and the fabric is the burial shroud in which he was wrapped after the crucifixion.

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t1688-shroud-of-turin

Could the Shroud be a forgery ?
Is the man on the shroud Jesus ?
Images of the Shroud
Videos about the Shroud
Images of the Shroud
Age of the shroud of turin
How was the image made ?
Shroud, new study: there is blood of a man tortured and killed
Pre 13th century history of the Shroud
THE SUDARIUM CHRISTI - THE FACE CLOTH OF CHRIST
How can you explain the existence of other revered shrouds aside from the one in Turin?
THE SHROUD AS AN ANCIENT TEXTILE
Barrie Schwortz testimony
Is it a painting ?


The blood
The blood strains can only be seen with UV light. Why would an artist back then ever put blood there which would not be visible, and providing no advantage at all? But even more remarkable than that, the wide presence of creatinine particles bound to ferrihydrite particles is not a situation typical of the blood serum of a healthy human organism. Indeed, a high level of creatinine and ferritin is related to patients suffering of strong polytrauma like torture. Hence, the presence of these biological nanoparticles found during our experiments points a violent death for the man wrapped in the Turin shroud.” What appears to be blood on the Shroud has passed 13 tests proving that it is real human blood.  The presence of "X" and "Y" chromosomes indicates that the blood is from a male.  The blood type is AB.  

When a person is cruelly tortured, the blood undergoes terrible hemolysis, when the hemoglobin literally ‘breaks up’. In thirty seconds, the reaction reaches the liver, which doesn’t have time to deal with it, and discharges a volume of bilirubin into the veins. Alan Adler has discovered a very high quantity of this substance in the blood on the Shroud. It is this substance that, when mixed with methemoglobin of a certain type, produces that vivid red color. The color of the blood belonging to the ‘Man of the Shroud’ is chemical proof that, before dying, he suffered terrible torture.

Pollen from Jerusalem
Pollen is on the Shroud that is unique to the area around Jerusalem.  Max Frei, a botanist by training, identified spores from forty-nine plants in samples taken from the Shroud.  Thirty-three of them came from plants that grow only in Palestine, the southern steppes of Turkey, and the area of Istanbul: Since the Shroud has never left France since its appearance in Lirey in 1357, this data suggests that the Shroud was exposed to the open air in Palestine and Turkey at some point prior to 1357.  Moreover: ‘Professor Danin has identified the pollen particles.. of three plants that are found only in Jerusalem. One of them, gondelia turnaforte, was present in extraordinary numbers. It’s the same plant that scholars believe may have been used as the crown of thorns worn on Jesus’ head.’

Limestone from Jerusalem
In 1982, Dr. Joseph Kohlbeck, Scientist, with assistance from Dr. Richard Levi-Setti , compared dirt from the Shroud to travertine aragonite limestone found in ancient Jewish tombs in Israel. The particles of dirt on the Shroud matched limestone found in the tombs.’

The image on the outermost layer
The image resides on the outermost layer of the linen fibers and the image goes just two or three fibers deep into the thread. The superficial image then disappears if a colored thread goes under another thread. The polysaccharide cover is approximately 0.2 thousandths of a millimeter (about 0.000008 inches) the inner side is not.

The image is a photonegative
Secondo Pia's first photograph in 1898 showed that the image on the cloth is a negative. The front and back (dorsal) images of the crucified man are negative images and contain 3D or topographical information content related to the distance of the cloth from the body.

Correct anatomy of the nails
The place where the nails are in the hands is anatomically correct. The image is NOT  there are no pigments whatsoever on the Shroud. If it were a forgery, with high certainty, it would have been painted. Who of the lay population would have perceived it ?

Two nails are through one foot, but only one of the nails is through the other foot.  This allows one foot to rotate, so that the victim can push up and down on the cross in order to breath during crucifixion.  If the victim of crucifixion is not pushing up and down, then it is clear that he is dead.  The soldiers had no doubt that Jesus was dead. All paintings of the Middle Ages showed the nails through the center of the palms, but nails through the palms do not support sufficient weight since there is no bone structure above this location.  Archeology has confirmed that during crucifixion, the nails were driven through the wrists.  The Shroud shows the correct nail locations - through the wrist instead of through the palm.

Age of the shroud
In 2013, a research team from the University of Padua conducted three tests on tiny fibers extracted from the shroud during earlier carbon-14 dating tests conducted in 1988 The first two tests used infrared light and Raman spectroscopy, respectively, while the third employed a test analyzing different mechanical parameters relating to voltage. The results date the cloth to between 300 B.C. and 400 A.D.. Fanti said that researchers also found trace elements of soil "compatible with the soil of Jerusalem." "For me the [Shroud] comes from God because there are hundreds of clues in favor to the authenticity," he wrote, adding that there also "no sure proofs. The 1988 carbon C14 results may have been contaminated by fibers used to repair the cloth during the Middle Ages.

Linen is from the first century
Stitching used to sew on the 3-inch wide side piece onto the main Shroud is nearly identical to that found at Masada which was destroyed in 73-74 AD. The size of the Shroud being very close to 2 by 8 cubits - the ancient unit of measurement

Scourge marks from the Roman flagrum
The Shroud shows 100 to 120 scourge marks from two Roman flagrum, one striking from each side, with dumbbell shaped weights on the ends of the straps.  The blood marks from these wounds show blood serum rings (visible only under UV) around the dried blood exudate. There are abrasions on both shoulders evidently caused by the victim carrying a heavy rough object.

Side wound from Roman Spear
The side of the front image on the Shroud shows a 2 inch wide elliptical wound - the size of a typical Roman spear. The blood running down his arms is at the correct angles for a crucifixion victim.  Two angles for the blood flow can be seen on his arms.  These two angles are consistent with the crucifixion victim shifting between two positions while on the cross in order to breathe.






The shroud of turin

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t1688-shroud-of-turin

Could the Shroud be a forgery ?
Is the man on the shroud Jesus ?
Images of the Shroud
Videos about the Shroud
Images of the Shroud
Age of the shroud of turin
How was the image made ?
Shroud, new study: there is blood of a man tortured and killed
Pre 13th century history of the Shroud
THE SUDARIUM CHRISTI - THE FACE CLOTH OF CHRIST
How can you explain the existence of other revered shrouds aside from the one in Turin?
THE SHROUD AS AN ANCIENT TEXTILE
Barrie Schwortz testimony
Is it a painting ?


The shroud of turin

One common claim of atheists is that 'there is NO evidence of the historical Jesus'' Because ALL the Bible and ancient writings of Jesus could be written by anyone and were written by so many people, years after the events, which could easily be made up.

The shroud provides to the lost world the forensic facts and evidence of the horror of Jesus going to the cross. The Shroud bears the ultimate triumph of the Resurrection of Jesus (Yeshua) meaning Salvation. All this is recorded supernaturally on The Shroud of Turin, which proves the Holy Bible to be forensically accurate and perfectly reliable in every possible way.

By virtue of their substance and form, physical objects require no faith whatsoever. They can be observed, examined, touched, and even smelled. -- This is the very opposite of "faith." Thomas was not commended or blessed because he had "seen" Jesus after the resurrection, but those who believe WITHOUT SEEING ARE! (John 20:29)

The Shroud of Turin is NOT A FORGERY FROM THE 14th century, as following amazing evidence will demonstrate. It is a length of linen cloth bearing the negative image of a man,  which based on overwhelming evidence points to be Jesus of Nazareth and the fabric is the burial shroud in which he was wrapped after the crucifixion.

The attributes of the image it's this:

- it's superficial penetrates only the top two microfibers is no directionality such as with brushstrokes
- there's no outline to the image
- is no cementing of fibers as with paint
- it's uniform and intensity top to bottom front to back you think you need a piece of technology to do that
- there are no variations in density as with known artworks every artist gets a little bit more they're a little bit less there
- there's no evidence of that there are no particles between the threads such as some kind of a dust rubbing
- there's no capillary action no evidence that any liquids were applied to the image to bring forth or to the image area
- there's no paint binder present nothing to bind any pigment to the cloth
- it's a negative image with distance information encoded into it
- it's blood from the actual wound it's a AB+ blood with human DNA and
- there's no image under the blood now

The blood
The blood strains can only be seen with UV light. Why would an artist back then ever put blood there which would not be visible, and providing no advantage at all. But even more remarkable than that, the wide presence of creatinine particles bound to ferrihydrite particles is not a situation typical of the blood serum of a healthy human organism. Indeed, a high level of creatinine and ferritin is related to patients suffering of strong polytrauma like torture. Hence, the presence of these biological nanoparticles found during our experiments points a violent death for the man wrapped in the Turin shroud.” What appears to be blood on the Shroud has passed 13 tests proving that it is real human blood.  The presence of "X" and "Y" chromosomes indicates that the blood is from a male.  The blood type is AB.  

When a person is cruelly tortured, the blood undergoes terrible haemolysis, when the haemaglobin literally ‘breaks up’. In thirty seconds, the reaction reaches the liver, which doesn’t have time to deal with it, and discharges a volume of bilirubin into the veins. Alan Adler has discovered a very high quantity of this substance in the blood on the Shroud. It is this substance that, when mixed with methemoglobin of a certain type, produces that vivid red colour. The colour of the blood belonging to the ‘Man of the Shroud’ is chemical proof that, before dying, he suffered terrible torture.

Pollen from Jerusalem
There is pollen from Jerusalem, Palestine, and Edessa. Pollen is on the Shroud that is unique to the area around Jerusalem.  In 1973, Swiss criminologist Max Frei, a botanist by training, identified spores from forty-nine plants in samples taken from the Shroud.  Thirty-three of them came from plants that grow only in Palestine, the southern steppes of Turkey, and the area of Istanbul: Since the Shroud has never left France since its appearance in Lirey in 1357, this data suggests that the Shroud was exposed to the open air in Palestine and Turkey at some point prior to 1357. Indeed, these findings correlate with the history of the Shroud one would expect if it were genuine (starting in Jerusalem and ending up in Spain) and with the history obtained by its identification with the Edessa Cloth. Moreover: ‘Professor Danin has identified the pollen particles.. of three plants that are found only in Jerusalem. One of them, gondelia turnaforte, was present in extraordinary numbers. It’s the same plant that scholars believe may have been used as the crown of thorns worn on Jesus’ head.’

Limestone from Jerusalem
In 1982, Dr. Joseph Kohlbeck, Scientist, with assistance from Dr. Richard Levi-Setti , compared dirt from the Shroud to travertine aragonite limestone found in ancient Jewish tombs in Israel. The particles of dirt on the Shroud matched limestone found in the tombs.’

Coins in the eyes from the first century
John Jackson and Eric Jumper, the physicists who discovered the ‘threedimensional’ information contained in the Shroud, observed the faint trace of objects placed over the eyes of the Man in the Shroud, which they suggested
might be coins (which would fit with first-century Jewish burial customs). If so, they noted that the coin was the same size as the ‘lepton’ of Pontius Pilate, which was only minted before 37 AD. Francis Filas, a professor at Loyola
University in Chicago, says the images are coins, and that the coins are leptons. According to Filas, computer enhancement and analysis of the images reveals that the objects have a number of coincidences ‘fitting only a
coin issued by Pontius Pilate between 2 and 32 AD.’

Image on the outermost layer
The image resides on the outermost layer of the linen fibers and the image goes just two or three fibers deep into the thread. The superficial image then disappears if a colored thread goes under another thread. The polysaccharide cover is approximately 0.2 thousandths of a millimeter (about 0.000008 inches) the inner side is not.

The image is a photonegative
Secondo Pia's first photograph in 1898 showed that the image on the cloth is a negative. The front and back (dorsal) images of the crucified man are negative images and contain 3D or topographical information content related to the distance of the cloth from the body.

Correct anatomy of the nails
The place where the nails are in the hands is anatomically correct. The image is NOT  there are no pigments whatsoever on the Shroud. If it were a forgery, with high certainty, it would have been painted. Who of the lay population would have perceived it ?

Two nails are through one foot, but only one of the nails is through the other foot.  This allows one foot to rotate, so that the victim can push up and down on the cross in order to breath during crucifixion.  If the victim of crucifixion is not pushing up and down, then it is clear that he is dead.  The soldiers had no doubt that Jesus was dead. All paintings of the Middle Ages showed the nails through the center of the palms, but nails through the palms do not support sufficient weight since there is no bone structure above this location.  Archeology has confirmed that during crucifixion, the nails were driven through the wrists.  The Shroud shows the correct nail locations - through the wrist instead of through the palm. On the Shroud, the thumbs are folded under, contrary to all paintings of the Middle Ages.  Nails through the wrists automatically fold the thumbs under due to contact of the nail with the nerve that goes through the wrist.

Age of the shroud 
In 2013, a research team from the University of Padua conducted three tests on tiny fibers extracted from the shroud during earlier carbon-14 dating tests conducted in 1988 The first two tests used infrared light and Raman spectroscopy, respectively, while the third employed a test analyzing different mechanical parameters relating to voltage. The results date the cloth to between 300 B.C. and 400 A.D.. Fanti said that researchers also found trace elements of soil "compatible with the soil of Jerusalem." "For me the [Shroud] comes from God because there are hundreds of clues in favor to the authenticity," he wrote, adding that there also "no sure proofs. The 1988 carbon C14 results may have been contaminated by fibers used to repair the cloth during the Middle Ages.

The Shroud has four sets of burn holes in an L-shaped pattern.  This same pattern of holes appears on a picture in a document known as the Hungarian Pray Manuscript, which is dated to 1192-1195 AD.  This indicates that the Shroud of Turin ought to be identified as the cloth, sometimes called the Mandylion, that was in Constantinople until the city was sacked during the fourth crusade in 1204 AD.  It is generally believed that this cloth was brought to Constantinople from Edessa, Turkey, in 944 AD.  In Edessa, it was called the Image of Edessa.  Thus, the Shroud of Turin is the same as the Image of Edessa, so it can be historically traced back prior to 944 AD.

Linen is from the first century
Stitching used to sew on the 3-inch wide side piece onto the main Shroud is nearly identical to that found at Masada which was destroyed in 73-74 AD. The size of the Shroud being very close to 2 by 8 cubits - the ancient unit of measurement

Scourge marks from the Roman flagrum
The Shroud shows 100 to 120 scourge marks from two Roman flagrum, one striking from each side, with dumbbell shaped weights on the ends of the straps.  The blood marks from these wounds show blood serum rings (visible only under UV) around the dried blood exudate. There are abrasions on both shoulders evidently caused by the victim carrying a heavy rough object.

Side wound from Roman Spear
The side of the front image on the Shroud shows a 2 inch wide elliptical wound - the size of a typical Roman spear. The blood running down his arms is at the correct angles for a crucifixion victim.  Two angles for the blood flow can be seen on his arms.  These two angles are consistent with the crucifixion victim shifting between two positions while on the cross in order to breath.

Turin Shroud hands reveals a part of the right thumb
A restoration of the TS image in the hands’ region has shown patterns compatible with the right hand’s thumb (the upper extremity of it). The right hand’s thumb appears in a non-relaxed position, adjacent to the palm of the hand, but positioned below it and, therefore, almost completely hidden by the index finger except for its end. The image of this thumb controverts the hypothesis of a medial counterfeiting of the relic. The Barbet’s hypothesis that the absence of the thumbs into the TS image, considered as one of the main indirect proofs of the authenticity of the relic. Indeed, the presence of the upper extremity of the right hand’s thumb, in a non-relaxed position, implying a possible state of stress, fixed by the rigor mortis, can be considered an indirect proof of the crucifixion of the TS man and, consequently, of the authenticity of the relic. 




BOUGHT, PURCHASED, RANSOMED & REDEEMED
For you were BOUGHT at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.
1 Corinthians 6:20
Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He PURCHASED with His own blood.
Acts 20:28
"...just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a RANSOM for many."
Matthew 20:28
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a RANSOM for all, to be testified in due time,
1 Timothy 2:5-6
knowing that you were not REDEEMED with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
1 Peter 1:18-19
These are all terms used to describe a financial transaction.
When you complete a transaction at the store the cashier gives you a piece of paper that describes the details of the price paid
It's called a 'receipt'.

The Shroud and the jew: Barrie Schwortz at TEDx ViadellaConciliazione
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G4sj8hUVaY

Barrie Schwortz was a member of the Shroud of Turin Research Project (often abbreviated as STURP) a team of scientists which performed a set of experiments and analyses on the Shroud of Turin during the late 1970s and early 1980s. STURP issued its final report in 1981.

After 18 years as a skeptic, in 1995, when confronted with the evidence that the blood on the shroud was of a tortured man, he became convinced of the authenticity of the Shroud. 

"At the beginning of my work, I was very skeptical about its authenticity. I felt no particular emotion toward Jesus because I was raised as an orthodox jew. The only thing I knew about Jesus was that he was a jew, and this was all. Examining the Shroud ".
After 18 years of study, the full conviction came when "the Blood Chemistry Allen Adler, another jew who was part of the study group, I explained why the red blood remained on the Shroud. The old blood would have to be black or brown, while the blood on the Shroud is a red-crimson. It seemed inexplicable, instead it was the last piece of the puzzle. After nearly 20 years of investigation, it was a shock for me to discover that the piece of cloth was the authentic cloth that had been wrapped the body of Jesus. The conclusions I arrived were based exclusively on scientific observation ".
He has no doubt Schwortz: "Once we came to the scientific conclusion that the cloth was authentic, I have come to understand also the meaning. This is the forensic document of the Passion, and for Christians around the world is the most important relic, precisely because it documents everything you read in the Gospels of what was done to Jesus. I think there are enough evidence to prove that this is the cloth that wrapped the body of Jesus ". The truth about Jesus is the task of faith, he states that "from the point of view of science that cloth wrapped the body of man spoken of in the Gospels".
The study of the Shroud has not only convinced of the authenticity, but it has also changed, evidently, also on a personal level.
"At the beginning of the investigation - said Schwortz -, I knew of God, but it was not very important in my life. I had not thought of God, when the avevo 13 years. I was not very religious, it was almost a requirement for my family. Since then I have moved away from the faith, religion and God, until I reached the 50 years. When in 1995 I came to the conclusion that the Shroud was authentic, I built the site www.shroud.com . I started to collect the material and put it to the public. I began to speak publicly about the Shroud around 1996 ".
This dualism, however, could not continue: "When people started asking me if I was a believer, I could not find the answer. At that point I questioned myself and I realized that God was waiting for me. I was really surprised to see that within me there was a belief in God. Fino a 50 years I had pretty much ignored the faith, and suddenly I found myself face to face with God in my heart. Basically I can say that the Shroud was the catalyst that brought me back to God ". He concluded amused: "How many Jews can say that the Shroud of Turin has led them to faith in God"?

Schwortz runs as well the website:
https://www.shroud.com/

The STURP Team
https://www.upra.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Lecture_1.pdf




1) The bloodstains on the Shroud have been forensically matched with the Sudarium of Oviedo which is inarguably centuries older than the Carbon test results.

2) There are pictures of the Shroud in the Hungarian Pray Codex which was written about 200 years before the results on the Carbon dating test.

Additionally, a published study found that the fragments tested in the Shroud were from a section of the Shroud that had been repaired in the middle ages.

The second mystery is related to the dating of the Shroud.  In 1988, samples were taken from the bottom corner opposite the feet and sent to three laboratories in Oxford, Zurich, and Tucson for C14 dating.  The average date from the three laboratories was 1260 ± 31 AD, which produced a two sigma (95% probability) range of 1260 to 1390 AD when corrected for the changing production of C14 in the upper atmosphere.  But the values from these three laboratories did not agree well with each other.  Statistical analysis of the average values from each laboratory indicated only a 5% chance that these average values are consistent with the measurement uncertainties.  When plotted, these average values from the three laboratories produce a slope for the C14 dates of about 40 years/cm as a function of the distance from the bottom edge of the Shroud, so that if the sampling location were moved about an inch closer to the center of the body mass, then the C14 date would increase by about 100 years.  This indicates that something probably caused a spatially dependent shift in the experimental C14 dates.  And the C14 date to the Middle-Ages contradicts other scientific and archeological dating methods noted above.  It contradicts the conclusions of historical investigation which indicates that the Shroud of Turin dates back prior to 944 AD.  It contradicts physical evidence that the Shroud could not have been produced in the Middle Ages due to the bizarre characteristics of the image, and it contradicts other evidence that the Shroud of Turin is the authentic burial cloth of Jesus.  Though multiple hypotheses (contamination, isotopic change, bio-plastic film, invisible reweave, and neutron absorption) have been offered to explain the C14 dating to the Middle Ages, this will remain an area of active research until conclusive evidence is obtained.

The third mystery is related to the blood marks on the Shroud.  Most of the blood would have dried on the body by the time that the body was placed into the Shroud in the tomb.  Dried blood will not soak into a piece of cloth placed over the blood.  In fact, blood that is dried on skin must be scrubbed off of the skin to remove it.  Yet the blood marks on the Shroud are not only on the surface of the linen but often soak through it to the other side, and the dried surface of the blood marks on the cloth are pristine in appearance with no cracking or chipping on the outer edge.  This indicates that the Shroud was not lifted off of a body from which it had soaked up the blood.  So the third mystery is how the dried blood could have transferred from the body to the cloth and produce the blood marks that can be seen on the Shroud.
The conference on the Shroud of Turin in Tri-Cities, Washington, in July of 2017 will present recent research related to these mysteries as well as other issues.  It is also intended to help form a basis for future research.

Photographs Below

The four photographs below show additional views of the Shroud of Turin.  The first photo is a close-up of the face taken by Giuseppe Enrie, who was the official photographer for the exhibition of the Shroud in 1931.  This is a negative based on front lighting of the image of the face.  The next photo down is a positive of the entire front image based on front lighting.  The next photo is a positive of the front image based on rear lighting.  And the last photo is a positive of the back (dorsal) image based on rear lighting.  The value of these last two photographs is that they indicate that no substance was transferred to the Shroud to form the images since no images can be seen in rear lighting, and that horizontal striations of the linen can be seen that are continuous across the width of the Shroud, including the area near the feet.  The horizontal striations are in the Shroud and not in the backing cloth because slight discontinuities in the striations can be seen where the 3-inch wide side strip is sown onto the main piece of the Shroud.  These continuous horizontal striations in the linen argue against the possibility that an invisible reweave or patch was made in the area from which the samples were removed in 1988 for the C-14 dating.

What is on the Shroud?

1.   Rigor mortis in feet shows that the victim was on the cross for a significant amount of time after he had died.

2.  Two nails are through one foot, but only one of the nails is through the other foot.  This allows one foot to rotate, so that the victim can push up and down on the cross in order to breath during crucifixion.  If the victim of crucifixion is not pushing up and down, then it is clear that he is dead.  The soldiers had no doubt that Jesus was dead (Mark 15:43-45, John 19:31-35).

3.  In 1532, the church where the Shroud was located caught fire.  This fire produced two scorch lines on either side of the front and dorsal images.  Water stains can also be seen on the Shroud from water thrown onto the metal box containing the Shroud after it was rescued from the fire.  The heat from the fire did not produce a gradation in the intensity of the image discoloration, indicating that the image is not due to application of an organic compound.

4.  Shortly after the fire in 1532, charred material was removed and replaced by patches.  The repeating pattern of patches and scorch marks that can be seen on the Shroud resulted from the way in which the cloth was folded at the time of the fire.   One corner of the folded Shroud that burned resulted in the many areas that had to be patched.

5.  The Shroud has four sets of burn holes in an L-shaped pattern.  This same pattern of holes appears on a picture in a document known as the Hungarian Pray Manuscript, which is dated to 1192-1195 AD.  This indicates that the Shroud of Turin ought to be identified as the cloth, sometimes called the Mandylion, that was in Constantinople until the city was sacked during the fourth crusade in 1204 AD.  It is generally believed that this cloth was brought to Constantinople from Edessa, Turkey, in 944 AD.  In Edessa, it was called the Image of Edessa.  Thus, the Shroud of Turin is the same as the Image of Edessa, so it can be historically traced back prior to 944 AD.  This indicates that the C-14 date range of 1260 to 1390 AD for the Shroud of Turin is erroneous.  Other dating methods are consistent with a first century date for the Shroud:  1) test results of tensile strength and reflectivity of linen as it ages,  2) stitching used to sew on the 3-inch wide side piece onto the main Shroud is nearly identical to that found at Masada which was destroyed in 73-74 AD,  3) the size of the Shroud being very close to 2 by 8 cubits - the ancient unit of measurement,  4) crucifixion being outlawed after the fourth century, and  5) a possible Roman Lepton over one eye dating to 27 - 30 AD.  Several hypotheses have been made to explain the erroneous C-14 date, including an invisible reweave of the sample area and neutron absorption in the trace amount of nitrogen in the linen shifting the C-14 date by the (N14 + neutron --> C14 + proton) reaction.   Details of this last option are discussed further at RECENT RESEARCH.  Pros and cons of the various options will be considered at the conference.

6.  The back (dorsal) image on the Shroud shows a separation of blood & clear blood serum that flowed from the  wound in the his side that shows on the front image.  This separation indicates that the victim’s heart was not beating for long enough to allow the red blood cells to settle out of the clear blood serum before the side wound was made.  Compare this with the "blood and water" that is said to have exited from Jesus' side wound in John 19:34.

7.  The Shroud shows 100 to 120 scourge marks from two Roman flagrum, one striking from each side, with dumbbell shaped weights on the ends of the straps.  The blood marks from these wounds show blood serum rings (visible only under UV) around the dried blood exudate.

8.  There are abrasions on both shoulders evidently caused by the victim carrying a heavy rough object.  Compare this with Jesus carrying his own cross (John 19:17).  This refers to the horizontal piece (patibulum) but not the vertical piece, which would have been stationary in the ground at the location of the crucifixion.

9.  The front and back of the head show puncture wounds from sharp objects.  Jesus had a cap of thorns beat into his scalp with rods (Matthew 27:30, Mark 15:17-19).

10.  Pollen is on the Shroud that is unique to the area around Jerusalem.  Pollen from a plant with long thorns was found around his head.

11.  The front and back (dorsal) images of the crucified man are negative images and contain 3D or topographical information content related to the distance of the cloth from the body.  Of the 100 to 200 fibers in a thread, the images result from only the top one or two layers of fibers in a thread being discolored.  The thickness of discoloration in a fiber is less than 0.4 microns, which is less than a wavelength of light.  There is no indication of capillarity (soaking up of a liquied) between the fibers or the threads.  The discolored regions of the fibers in the image result from a change in the covalent bonding of the carbon atoms that were originally in the cellulose molecules in the linen.  This change in the covalent bonding of the carbon atoms is equivalent to a dehydration and oxidation of the cellulose molecule.  The conclusion is that an artist or forger could not have produced the bizarre characteristics of the images in any era, either ancient or modern.  How the image of a crucified man could have formed on the cloth with these image characteristics will be considered at the conference.

12.  The image on the Shroud has swollen cheeks and a possible broken nose from a beating (John 18:3) or a fall.  Abrasions on the tip of the nose have a microscopic amount of dirt in the abrasions.  Jesus probably fell while carrying his cross (Matthew 27:32, Mark 15:21).

13.  The side of the front image on the Shroud shows a 2 inch wide elliptical wound - the size of a typical Roman spear (John 19:34).  Post-mortem (after death) blood and watery fluid flowed down from this wound.

14.  The blood running down his arms is at the correct angles for a crucifixion victim.  Two angles for the blood flow can be seen on his arms.  These two angles are consistent with the crucifixion victim shifting between two positions while on the cross in order to breath.  (See #2 above)  What appears to be blood on the Shroud has passed 13 tests proving that it is real human blood.  The presence of "X" and "Y" chromosomes indicates that the blood is from a male.  The blood type is AB.  And most significantly, the blood is high in bilirubin which is a compound produced by the liver when it processes damaged red blood cells,  which occurs when a victim is severely beaten, as Jesus was.  Normal blood turns very dark brown to black as it ages over days and weeks, but the blood marks on the Shroud show a reddish hue.  There are multiple possible causes for this coloration.

15.  All paintings of the Middle Ages showed the nails through the center of the palms, but nails through the palms do not support sufficient weight since there is no bone structure above this location.  Archeology has confirmed that during crucifixion, the nails were driven through the wrists.  The Shroud shows the correct nail locations - through the wrist instead of through the palm.

16.  On the Shroud, the thumbs are folded under, contrary to all paintings of the Middle Ages.  Nails through the wrists automatically fold the thumbs under due to contact of the nail with the nerve that goes through the wrist.

17.  Abrasions on one knee show a microscopic amount of dirt, which is evidence of a fall.

18.  The three-inch wide side strip is sown on with a unique stitch nearly identical to that found only at Masada which was destroyed in 73-74 AD.  This is evidence that the Shroud was made in the first century.  The reason for this three-inch side piece is not certain, but the most likely explanation is that it probably was sown on in the process of originally making the Shroud.

19.  Small chips of travertine aragonite limestone were found in dirt near the feet.  This rare form of limestone is commonly called "Jerusalem limestone" because Jerusalem is the main location in the world where it is found.  This limestone found in dirt on the Shroud had a spectral signature nearly identical to a sample of limestone taken from the Damascus Gate - the closest gate to Golgotha.  No other place on earth is known to have the identical spectral image.  This indicates that the victim whose image is shown on the Shroud almost certainly walked on the streets of Jerusalem before being crucified.

         It is important to note that there is one item that should be on a burial cloth such as this that is not present.  That one item is the products of the body's decay.  There are no body decay products on the Shroud of Turin, in spite of the fact that the pristine nature of the blood marks indicates that this Shroud was not lifted off of the body from which the blood had come.  There is also no evidence on the Shroud of other organic chemicals that might have been used in the burial process, such as myrrh and aloes (John 19:39).

https://www.shroud.com/

http://www.shroudconference2017.com/

The Shroud of Turin, also commonly called the Turin Shroud, is a burial cloth that has been located in Turin, Italy, since 1578, and has a well-documented history back to about 1355.  The amazing thing about this burial cloth is that it contains full size good resolution images of the front and back of a naked man that was crucified exactly as the New Testament says that Jesus of Nazareth was crucified.  When put on display in Turin, Italy, which usually occurs several times each century, millions of people file past the Shroud and see the images of the crucified man.  Long standing tradition maintains that the Shroud of Turin is the authentic burial cloth of Jesus.  Ancient documentation and a variety of ancient coins and artistic works are consistent with this view.  The scientific investigation of the Shroud began in 1898 when Secondo Pia took the first photograph of the Shroud which revealed that the image was a good resolution negative image.  It has now been scientifically studied for over 115 years making it the most studied ancient artifact in existence.  This scientific research has shown that the characteristics of the image are so bizarre that it could not be the result of a human agent, either an artist or forger, because the technology to create this image did not exist in a previous era and still does not exist even today.  Based on this scientific research, the general consensus of Shroud researchers is that the Shroud wrapped the body of a real human being that was crucified, and that in some way this body encoded front and back images of itself onto the inside of the Shroud.  


"The presence of traces of whole blood must be considered as firmly established, with the probability that the blood is human. It is possible, of course, that an artist or forger worked with blood to touch up a body image obtained by other means. Attempts to ascertain how the image came to be imprinted on the cloth have not yielded definitive results. An impressive array of optical and microscopic examinations was conducted, including most of those used in testing for blood constituents, infrared thermography and radiography, micro-Raman analysis, and examination by ion microprobe and electron scanning microscope (Jumper and Mottern 1980). There was general agreement among researchers on the nature of the image - degradation and/or dehydration of the cellulose in superficial fibers resulting in a faint reflection of light in the visible range (Pellicori 1980). Only the topmost fibrils of each thread are dehydrated, even in the darkest areas of the image, and no significant traces of pigments, dyes, stains, chemicals, or organic or inorganic substances were found in the image. It was thus determined that the image was not painted, printed, or otherwise artificially imposed on the cloth, nor was it the result of any known reaction of the cloth to spices, oils, or biochemicals produced by the body in life or death. STURP concluded that "there are no chemical or physical methods . . . and no combination of physical, chemical, biological or medical circumstances which explain the image adequately" (Joan Janney, quoted in an Associated Press report, October 11, 1981). Two theories currently contend among STURP researchers: a "photolysis effect" (heat or radiation scorch) and a "latent image process" where by the cloth was sensitized by materials absorbed by direct contact with a corpse. Wags were quick to label these "the first Polaroid from Palestine" and "a Christ contact print."

https://www.shroud.com/meacham2.htm

STURP determined that the image was caused by rapid dehydration, oxidation and degradation of the linen by an unidentified process, coloring it a sepia or straw yellow.  Several Physicists, including Dr. John Jackson of the Colorado Shroud Center, suggest that a form of columnated radiation is the best explanation for how the image was formed, leaving a scorch-like appearance (the scorch caused by light versus heat, as the image does not fluoresce).  Dr. Thomas Phillips (nuclear physicist at Duke University and formerly with the High Energy Labs at Harvard) says a potential miliburst of radiation (a neutron flux) could be consistent with the moment of resurrection.  Such a miliburst might cause the purely surface phenomenon of the scorch-like (scorch-by-light) images, and possibly add Carbon-14 to the Cloth.  As Dr. Phillips points out: "We never had a resurrection to study" and more testing should be done to ascertain whether a neutron-flux occurred.
The coloration on the linen fibers of the Shroud is extremely thin.  Sticky tape samples taken from different parts of the image on the Shroud's surface in 1978 were too thin to measure accurately with a standard optical microscope, which means they were thinner than the wavelength of visible light, or less than about 0.6 micrometers.  A more recent measurement of the coloration on one of the fibers was found to be about 0.2 micrometers thick (or one-fifth of a thousandth of a millimeter). Italian scientists working at the National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (ENEA) conducted experiments on their own time between 2005 and 2010, applying ultraviolet radiation to strips of linen to see if they could match the coloration on the fibers of the Shroud of Turin.  In their ENEA technical report, published in November 2011, they wrote that particular doses of radiation left a thin coating on linen fibers that resemble the colored fibers on the image of the Shroud of Turin.  When questioned, the lead scientist in the study, Paolo Di Lazzaro, said that vacuum ultraviolet radiation (VUV, wavelength 200-100 nanometers) from laser pulses lasting less than 50 nanoseconds produced the best effect.
These findings support the idea that the image on the Shroud was made by a sudden flash of high-energy radiation.  They also refute the possibility of forgery, since lasers were obviously not available in medieval times.
The technical report: P. Di Lazzaro, D. Murra, E. Nichelatti, A. Santoni, G. Baldacchini: "Colorazione similsindonica di tessuti di lino tramite radiazione nel lontano ultravioletto: riassunto dei risultati ottenuti presso il Centro ENEA di Frascati negli anni 2005-2010" RT/2011/14/ENEA (2011).


http://www.sindonology.org/shroudScope/shroudScope.shtml



Last edited by Admin on Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:55 pm; edited 79 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

2Shroud of Turin Empty Could the Shroud be a forgery ? on Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:11 am

Otangelo


Admin
Could the Shroud be a forgery ?

Borrini and Garlaschelli in their paper set up a strawman of the Shroud and refuted only that. And that they are guilty of either scholarly incompetence, in not being aware of the relevant Shroud literature, or scholarly dishonesty, in being aware of that literature but concealing it from their readers. Or both. They are an example of `the blind leading the blind'
My critique of Borrini, M. & Garlaschelli, L., 2018, "A BPA Approach to the Shroud of Turin," Journal of Forensic Sciences, 10 July

Considerable efforts have been made to demonstrate that the Shroud is a fraud. Many books were written, attempts made to duplicate the image, but what these attempts have achieved is the contrary of the intent. Ini my opinion, the investigations to reproduce the Shroud of Turin only demostrate that the best efforts do not suffice to come even close to the image of the original. The results are far away from the original, very poor and can be easily identified as made by an artist.

All attempts to reproduce the shroud have failed. Copies have been made that look like it but they lack all of the image characteristics that make the shroud image unique. Science cannot explain nor replicate the image..the closest we have come to replicating it (allegedly) is by bombarding linen samples with VUV Excimer Lasers.

"My research - continues Garlaschelli - made possible also by the economic contribution of some entities, such as the UAAR (Union of Atheists Rationalist Agnostics), and many private individuals - aimed to verify whether an artist could have obtained it with methods also available in 1300.
https://www.massimopolidoro.com/blog/la-sindone-riprodotta-in-grandezza-naturale-al-convegno-del-cicap.html

Garlaschelli, professor of chemistry at the University of Pavia, told La Repubblica newspaper that his team used linen woven using the same techniques as those used on the shroud, and artificially aged by heating in an oven and washing.
http://www.italiaoggi.com.br/not10_1209/ital_not20091009d.htm

Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin
This is one of the tests that those who claim they have reproduced the Shroud must meet: it must be "reversed like a photographic negative." It is not enough to produce an image that is only superficially like the Shroud. It must be exactly like the Shroud in its uniquely important details - down to the microscopic level. I here predict that if this claimed reproduction of the Shroud is submitted for microscopic analysis, it will be shown to be unlike the Shroud, and therefore itself just a fake copy of the Shroud original. There is a major difference between Garlaschelli's description of how he made his shroud's image (see below) and the image on the Shroud of Turin, that totally disqualifies Garlaschelli's shroud from being a faithful and credible reproduction of the Shroud of Turin.

ANSWER TO THE ARTICLE 
“A BPA APPROACH TO THE SHROUD OF TURIN” by Matteo Borrini and Luigi Garlaschelli 
The article presents numerous formal and conceptual errors that deprive it of scientific credibility. First of all, neither author is a forensic physician, so they lack the experience and knowledge necessary to successfully deal with any kind of investigation with human blood stains. The “experiments” have been conducted on a living and healthy human being, without traumatic wounds of any kind and with a dummy vaguely reminiscent of a human trunk. But if it is not done with a living human being who has suffered the same wounds and the same chronology as the Man of the Shroud, nor with a corpse that meets the same requirements, then the experiment does NOT reproduce, not even approximately, the circumstances in which the blood stains originated.
https://www.shroud.com/pdfs/Hermosilla%20EN.pdf


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLiY5df0f-U


Shroud of Turin Fake_210

IMAGE FORMATION VERSUS WORK OF AN ARTIST
No one knows for sure how the images were created.  The images are scorch-like, yet not created by heat, and are a purely surface phenomenon limited to the crowns of the top fibers.  The Shroud is clearly not a painting; no evidence of pigments or media was found.  The blood was on the Cloth before the image (an unlikely way for an artist to work).  There is no outline, no binders to hold paint, no evidence that paint, dye, ink, or chalk created the images, and there are no brush strokes.  According to world-renowned artist Isabel Piczek, the images have no style that would fit into any period of art history.  The images show perfect photo-negativity and 3-dimensionality.  It is not a Vaporgraph or natural result of vapors.

Note: some microscopic particles of paint exist on the Shroud, but these do not constitute the image.  During the Middle Ages, a practice called the "sanctification of paintings" permitted about 50 artists to paint replicas of the Shroud and then lay their paintings over the Shroud to "sanctify" them.  This permitted contact transfer of particles, which then migrated around the cloth with the folding and rolling of the Shroud when it was opened for exhibit and closed again afterwards.

STURP determined that the image was caused by rapid dehydration, oxidation and degradation of the linen by an unidentified process, coloring it a sepia or straw yellow.  Several Physicists, including Dr. John Jackson of the Colorado Shroud Center, suggest that a form of columnated radiation is the best explanation for how the image was formed, leaving a scorch-like appearance (the scorch caused by light versus heat, as the image does not fluoresce).  Dr. Thomas Phillips (nuclear physicist at Duke University and formerly with the High Energy Labs at Harvard) says a potential miliburst of radiation (a neutron flux) could be consistent with the moment of resurrection.  Such a miliburst might cause the purely surface phenomenon of the scorch-like (scorch-by-light) images, and possibly add Carbon-14 to the Cloth.  As Dr. Phillips points out: "We never had a resurrection to study" and more testing should be done to ascertain whether a neutron-flux occurred.

The coloration on the linen fibers of the Shroud is extremely thin.  Sticky tape samples taken from different parts of the image on the Shroud's surface in 1978 were too thin to measure accurately with a standard optical microscope, which means they were thinner than the wavelength of visible light, or less than about 0.6 micrometers.  A more recent measurement of the coloration on one of the fibers was found to be about 0.2 micrometers thick (or one-fifth of a thousandth of a millimeter).

Italian scientists working at the National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (ENEA) conducted experiments on their own time between 2005 and 2010, applying ultraviolet radiation to strips of linen to see if they could match the coloration on the fibers of the Shroud of Turin.  In their ENEA technical report, published in November 2011, they wrote that particular doses of radiation left a thin coating on linen fibers that resemble the colored fibers on the image of the Shroud of Turin.  When questioned, the lead scientist in the study, Paolo Di Lazzaro, said that vacuum ultraviolet radiation (VUV, wavelength 200-100 nanometers) from laser pulses lasting less than 50 nanoseconds produced the best effect.
These findings support the idea that the image on the Shroud was made by a sudden flash of high-energy radiation.  They also refute the possibility of forgery, since lasers were obviously not available in medieval times.
The technical report: P. Di Lazzaro, D. Murra, E. Nichelatti, A. Santoni, G. Baldacchini: "Colorazione similsindonica di tessuti di lino tramite radiazione nel lontano ultravioletto: riassunto dei risultati ottenuti presso il Centro ENEA di Frascati negli anni 2005-2010" RT/2011/14/ENEA (2011).


What, if the Shroud were a forgery ? 

In the middle ages, during centuries, indulgence was a BIG business for the catholic church. They were granted on behalf of the Roman Catholic Church in exchange for money, which are claimed to allow a remission of  sin, the guilt of which has been forgiven. Typically a writ of indulgence was issued by the Church and given to an individual who had demonstrated some type of penance, or good work. 

Usually priests were travelling from one town to another in middle age Europe, visiting the four corners of the known world with an entire entourage.   One method employed to finance the building of St. Peter's Basilica was the granting of indulgences in return for contributions.  A succession of popes and architects took 120 years to build it, their combined efforts resulting in the completion in 1590. It would cost an estimate of 5,4 billion us$ today to build it. 

One of the tools to collect money was also when priests were travelling to carry  relics of the saints with them, usually consisting of the physical remains of a saint or the personal effects of the saint or venerated person preserved for purposes of veneration as a tangible memorial, and showing to the population.

Of course that was an important tool. To show a peace of wood that was claimed to pertain to the cross of Christ, or a spine of Christs crown, and so on. Now imagine, there would have been a way to produce such an amazing forgery of the linen cloth burial shroud in which  Jesus of Nazareth was wrapped after crucifixion. bearing his negative image. That, of course, would have been a tool of general amazement everywhere, were it would have been carried and shown. After showing it to the crowd, asking for indulgences and funds would have been much easier. 

If there were a method to produce such an inprint, Rome would have build a FACTORY to make the artifact in considerable numbers, and given it to the travelling priests as relic to be shown. There would not be just one shroud known, but hundreds, maybe thousands, and many still existing today. Each a littlebit different, but nonetheless, the technique, and consistency, the same, and as such, comparable one to each other. That would be a GREAT argument to denie the authentiticy ot all of them. 

But there are many  things unique on the shroud. 

The blood strains can only be seen with UV light. Why would an artist back then ever put blood there which would not be visible, and providing no advantage at all. But even more remarkable than that, the wide presence of creatinine particles bound to ferrihydrite particles is not a situation typical of the blood serum of a healthy human organism. Indeed, a high level of creatinine and ferritin is related to patients suffering of strong polytrauma like torture. Hence, the presence of these biological nanoparticles found during our experiments point a violent death for the man wrapped in the Turin shroud.” What appears to be blood on the Shroud has passed 13 tests proving that it is real human blood.  The presence of "X" and "Y" chromosomes indicates that the blood is from a male.  The blood type is AB.  And most significantly, the blood is high in bilirubin which is a compound produced by the liver when it processes damaged red blood cells,  which occurs when a victim is severely beaten, as Jesus was. 

There is pollen from Jerusalem, Palestine, and Edessa. Pollen is on the Shroud that is unique to the area around Jerusalem.  Pollen from a plant with long thorns was found around his head. The place where the nails are in the hands is anatomically correct. The image is NOT  there are no pigments whatsoever on the Shroud. If it were a forgery, with high certainty, it would have been painted. Who of the lay population would have perceived it ? 

The image resides on the outermost layer of the linen fibers and the image goes just two or three fibers deep into the thread. The superficial image then disappears if a colored thread goes under another thread. The polysaccharide cover is approximately 0.2 thousandths of a millimeter (about 0.000008 inches) the inner side is not.

Secondo Pia's first photograph in 1898 showed that the image on the cloth is a negative. The front and back (dorsal) images of the crucified man are negative images and contain 3D or topographical information content related to the distance of the cloth from the body. 

Two nails are through one foot, but only one of the nails is through the other foot.  This allows one foot to rotate, so that the victim can push up and down on the cross in order to breath during crucifixion.  If the victim of crucifixion is not pushing up and down, then it is clear that he is dead.  The soldiers had no doubt that Jesus was dead. All paintings of the Middle Ages showed the nails through the center of the palms, but nails through the palms do not support sufficient weight since there is no bone structure above this location.  Archeology has confirmed that during crucifixion, the nails were driven through the wrists.  The Shroud shows the correct nail locations - through the wrist instead of through the palm. On the Shroud, the thumbs are folded under, contrary to all paintings of the Middle Ages.  Nails through the wrists automatically fold the thumbs under due to contact of the nail with the nerve that goes through the wrist.

In 2013, a research team from the University of Padua conducted three tests on tiny fibers extracted from the shroud during earlier carbon-14 dating tests conducted in 1988 The first two tests used infrared light and Raman spectroscopy, respectively, while the third employed a test analyzing different mechanical parameters relating to voltage. The results date the cloth to between 300 B.C. and 400 A.D.. Fanti said that researchers also found trace elements of soil "compatible with the soil of Jerusalem." "For me the [Shroud] comes from God because there are hundreds of clues in favor to the authenticity," he wrote, adding that there also "no sure proofs. The 1988 carbon C14 results may have been contaminated by fibers used to repair the cloth during the Middle Ages.

The Shroud has four sets of burn holes in an L-shaped pattern.  This same pattern of holes appears on a picture in a document known as the Hungarian Pray Manuscript, which is dated to 1192-1195 AD.  This indicates that the Shroud of Turin ought to be identified as the cloth, sometimes called the Mandylion, that was in Constantinople until the city was sacked during the fourth crusade in 1204 AD.  It is generally believed that this cloth was brought to Constantinople from Edessa, Turkey, in 944 AD.  In Edessa, it was called the Image of Edessa.  Thus, the Shroud of Turin is the same as the Image of Edessa, so it can be historically traced back prior to 944 AD. 

Stitching used to sew on the 3-inch wide side piece onto the main Shroud is nearly identical to that found at Masada which was destroyed in 73-74 AD. The size of the Shroud being very close to 2 by 8 cubits - the ancient unit of measurement 

The Shroud shows 100 to 120 scourge marks from two Roman flagrum, one striking from each side, with dumbbell shaped weights on the ends of the straps.  The blood marks from these wounds show blood serum rings (visible only under UV) around the dried blood exudate. There are abrasions on both shoulders evidently caused by the victim carrying a heavy rough object.

The side of the front image on the Shroud shows a 2 inch wide elliptical wound - the size of a typical Roman spear. The blood running down his arms is at the correct angles for a crucifixion victim.  Two angles for the blood flow can be seen on his arms.  These two angles are consistent with the crucifixion victim shifting between two positions while on the cross in order to breath.

Claim:  "the entire cloth is marked by what appears to be rivulets of blood from wounds in the wrists, feet and side. These marks don't just appear to be blood; they are blood" FALSE
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1556-4029.13867?af=R
"The Bloodstains On The Shroud Of Turin Are Probably Fake, Say Forensic Experts":  
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/danvergano/shroud-turin-jesus-fake-bloodstain?fbclid=IwAR396GG6MuFxqWjBaNhLOGfyvK6N2EtNvGk5vdt_7WnNz8vsIbyYoqMoasI
"Ancient Shroud of Turin Is Likely Fake, Bloodstain Analysis Finds":
https://www.newsweek.com/ancient-shroud-turin-least-half-fake-bloodstain-analysis-finds-1026279?fbclid=IwAR3pUhM7VPMW8RZud_QJ9faOqFDKhjPmhEp_InyOoAdFHMlbUwXDtzTfFSg
"Shroud of Turin Is a Fake, Bloodstains Suggest":  
https://www.livescience.com/63093-shroud-of-turin-is-fake-bloodstains.html?fbclid=IwAR2Dt60jarXjV12KCSNRyIrXRBrZC47n5vZ-oqxKakhaPFeOKv7SYjfnJ0U
628-year-old fake news: Scientists prove Turin Shroud not genuine (again)
https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turin-shroud-latest-fake-forgery-scientific-blood-pattern-spatter-study-carbon-dating-debunked-a8450101.html?amp=&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA=&fbclid=IwAR3p53pbmq6cjDKNT0AFHaY96BxrBwsHje9i2-qwy1iWLeTeDVtwsSI6x0c&amp_js_v=0.1#aoh=15868689159723&amp_ct=1586868931077&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fturin-shroud-latest-fake-forgery-scientific-blood-pattern-spatter-study-carbon-dating-debunked-a8450101.html

Reply:
Borrini and Garlaschelli in their paper set up a strawman of the Shroud and refuted only that. And that they are guilty of either scholarly incompetence, in not being aware of the relevant Shroud literature, or scholarly dishonesty, in being aware of that literature but concealing it from their readers. Or both. They are an example of `the blind leading the blind'
http://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com/2018/08/my-critique-of-borrini-m-garlaschelli-l.html

"Scientist re-creates Turin Shroud to show it's fake", October 9, 2009:
https://www.cnn.com/.../europe/10/07/italy.turin.shroud/
"Scientists prove Turin Shroud not genuine": https://www.independent.co.uk/.../turin-shroud-latest...
"study suggests Shroud of Turin a fake, supporting study": https://phys.org/.../2018-07-shroud-turin-fake-retracted...
"Study of Shroud of Turin Proves Again: Jesus Relic Is Fake": https://www.haaretz.com/.../MAGAZINE-csi-study-of-shroud...
"research (once again) suggests the Shroud of Turin is fake": https://www.nbcnews.com/.../forensic-research-once-again...
"tests suggest Shroud of Turin is fake": https://www.reuters.com/.../new-forensic-tests-suggest...
"The Bloodstains On The Shroud Of Turin Are Probably Fake, Say Forensic Experts": https://www.buzzfeednews.com/.../shroud-turin-jesus-fake...
"Ancient Shroud of Turin Is Likely Fake, Bloodstain Analysis Finds": https://www.newsweek.com/ancient-shroud-turin-least-half...
"Shroud of Turin Is a Fake, Bloodstains Suggest": https://www.livescience.com/63093-shroud-of-turin-is-fake...

Sorry, the Shroud of Turin Is Definitely a Hoax
http://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2020/02/24/sorry-the-shroud-of-turin-is-definitely-a-hoax/?fbclid=IwAR2u_d-8vwlFoDa5nRuyC4BwoT5yXiu-KUR1rwYkJaDt7jYtnIoOQPhPIxY



Last edited by Admin on Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:45 pm; edited 14 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

3Shroud of Turin Empty Is the man on the shroud Jesus ? on Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:11 pm

Otangelo


Admin
Is the man on the shroud Jesus ?

No substances manually applied to the cloth.
No artistic substances such as paint, ink, dye, pigments, or stain were used to constitute the image.
No collagen binder as would be used with paint.
No fibers cemented to each other as with paint.
No capillary action -- meaning no liquids were applied to form the image.
No substances found between threads, as with a dust rubbing.
Bloodstains on cloth test positive for heme, bile, serum albumin, and other human blood components. The blood is male type AB.
“The blood marks seen on the shroud are consistent with a contact transfer to the cloth of blood clot exudates that would have resulted from major wounds inflicted on a man who died in the position of crucifixion.” Dr. Al Adler—Blood chemist STURP Team

The following are image characteristics found on or about the Shroud:

- The image is purely superficial. It does not penetrate the cloth – only rests on the top two micro-fibers. (Analogous to the Shroud image resting on the hairs of your forearm.)
- The image is a photographic negative that develops as a positive.
- The image contains 3D “distance information” similar to a topographical map.
- No directionality to the image, as found with a brush or any substance application tool.
- No variation in the depth of the image. (Virtually impossible with human hands.)
- The yellowing of the image is uniform in intensity.
- No outline or defined edges to the image.

STURP conclusion: “There are no chemical or physical methods known which can account for the totality of the image, nor can any combination of physical, chemical, biological, or medical circumstances explain the image adequately.”

Medical forensics determined by STURP concluded that the cloth wrapped a human corpse. Blood chemistry indicates human blood from actual wounds. Botanical studies concluded that the cloth originated in Israel. Alternate dating methods (Professor Giulio Fanti, 2013-14) include the First Century within the range. However, can it be proved that the image of “the Man of the Shroud” is Jesus Christ? Only by inference according to the four gospels:

- Bloodstains on the head compatible with a crown of thorns.
- Over 120 scourge (whip) marks compatible with Roman flagrum.
- Nail wound in the wrists (more anatomically correct to hold the weight of the body than the palm of the hand).
- Nail wound in the feet. (The man’s feet were on top of each other.)
- Legs are pulled up due to rigor mortis. (A stiffness of muscles that sets in quickly after death and lasts less than four days.)
- Blood is sourced from actual wounds showing evidence of gravity from a vertical position. (On the cross?)
- No stains of body decomposition. (Resurrection happened on the third day before decomposition had time to occur?)
- Wound in the side compatible in size with a Roman spear tip.
- Post-mortem blood flow from the side wound that also flows across the back.

https://www.christianity.com/wiki/jesus-christ/what-is-the-shroud-of-turin.html?fbclid=IwAR2Uns3ZPVtC1HFoR-jTDQc84a6PbbkkRCDiMFTwNVNaH-7HzTMv1OX22UU

Experts agree that facial features identify the man buried in the Shroud as a Caucasian. Carlton Coon, a leading ethnologist, says he has the physical features of a Jew or Arab. The man’s hairstyle, characterized by a beard and long hair parted in the middle, further identifies him as a Jew. In addition, the hair in back is cut in the form of a pigtail, a hairstyle very common in firstcentury Jewish men. It is thus probable that this crucified person was a Jew.

The correlation between the wounds inflicted upon the Jewish man buried in the shroud and the wounds the New Testament reports as having been inflicted upon Jesus is remarkable: ‘comparison of the gospel accounts with the sufferings and burial of the man in the Shroud points to the strong likelihood that the man is Jesus Christ. The evidence is consistent at every point. The man of the Shroud suffered, died, and was buried the way the gospels say Jesus was.’53 These similarities don’t fit any other known victim of crucifixion, except Jesus.

The sufferings, crucifixion and burial of Jesus, as described by the gospels, were different from the ordinary ways the Romans crucified criminals and the Jews buried their dead: ‘Jesus’ case was irregular. He was scourged, crowned with thorns, nailed to his cross [rather than tied], stabbed in the side (instead of his legs being broken), buried well [rather than thrown to the dogs] but incompletely, and his body left the cloth before it decomposed.’54 Because we know quite a lot about Roman and Jewish customs in these matters, we can estimate the probability of two men being treated, crucified and buried in this way, and hence the probability that the Jewish man in the Shroud was Jesus.

1) Both exhibit a severe beating and scourging (Matthew 27:26-30; Mark 15:15- 19; Luke 22:63-64; John 19:1-3). 
2) Both had a crown of thorns (Matthew 27:29; Mark 15:17-20; John 19:2) – ‘Crowning indicates majesty and a crown of thorns would, of course, mock that proclaimed majesty. Jesus was crowned with thorns for this very reason. . . the man buried in the Shroud was also pierced through the scalp. If the man in the Shroud is not Jesus, what are the chances that this man, probably a criminal or slave, would have been crowned with thorns?’
3) Many crucifixion victims were tied to their crosses with ropes, but both Jesus and the man in the Shroud were nailed there (Luke 24:39; John 20:20, 25- 27).57 
4) Neither Jesus nor the man in the Shroud had their legs broken, the normal procedure for ensuring death (John 19:31-32). 
5) ‘To ensure that Jesus was dead, a soldier stabbed him in the side, and blood and water flowed from the wound (John 19:33-34). The same thing happened to the man in the Shroud.’ (The wound in the side of the Man in the Shroud exactly corresponds to the size of the tip of the lancia, a Roman spear with a long, leaf-shaped head.) 
6) Few victims of crucifixion were given individual burials in a fine linen Shroud (Matthew 27:57-60; Mark 15:43-46; Luke 23:50-55; John 19:38-42). 
7) Both Jesus and the man in the Shroud were buried hastily (Mark 16:1; Luke 23:55-24:1). 
8 ) Neither man decomposed in their Shroud. 

Multiplying these probabilities, we have 1 chance in 82,944,000 that the man buried in the Shroud is not Jesus.

How can we be sure that the ‘Man of the Shroud’ is Jesus?

The latest and most dramatic discoveries concern a piece of writing on the Shroud itself. For years, people had been asking why below and to the sides of the chin there are three clear and regular lines where no imprint is present. The Paris-based organisation CIERT (Centre International d’Etudes sur le Linceul de Turin, The international centre of studies on the Shroud of Turin), which I represent in Italy, has conducted studies in the most advanced institute in Europe for image analysis via computer, the Institut Optique d’Orsay, whose director is Professor André Marion. All official photographs of the Shroud were divided into tens of thousands of squares which were then given a corresponding optical density and transferred onto a visualisation programme. By means of an extremely advanced programme, some letters gradually began to emerge, in Latin and in Greek: under the chin, we find written ‘Jesus’ and on one side, ‘Nazarene’. What is the explanation for this? The ‘exactor mortis’ the centurion charged with ensuring the execution of the condemned, had drawn strips of ‘glue’ onto the cloth on which he would write the name of the deceased with a red liquid. Where these strips were drawn, the cloth was impermeable and would not, therefore, be subject to the chemical process which subsequently formed the imprint.  I sent a photograph of these inscriptions to André Marion in Paris, and he has already discovered many similarities with the style of the writing only recently discovered on the Shroud.
https://www.messengersaintanthony.com/content/man-shroud-has-name

The Shroud of Turin: Proof of the Resurrection
http://www.british-israel.ca/shroud.htm

The Shroud of Turin: 2.6. The other marks: Writing
http://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-shroud-of-turin-26-other-marks-6.html

Certificado do enterro de Jesus Nazareno
https://sites.google.com/site/deciomedeiros/home/teologia/certificado-do-enterro-de-jesus-nazareno

Vatican researcher discovers Jesus death certificate on Holy Shroud
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndGnEGCJuaA&feature=youtu.be

The Writing on the Shroud: A Stephen Jones Update
https://shroudstory.com/2013/06/04/the-writing-on-the-shroud-a-stephen-jones-update/
With the possible exception of the 11th century writing above the right knee (see above), there is no compelling evidence for, and much evidence against, the theory that there is writing on the Shroud of Turin. Even among scholars who believe in the Shroud’s authenticity, most have dismissed as unreliable the computer enhanced images of `letters’ on the Shroud upon which Marastoni’s, Marion and Courage’s, and Frale’s, theories are based[103]. As Dr Bruno Barberis, director of the International Center for Shroud Studies of Turin, commented, "There is no evidence that those letters do exist. Many have seen faint writings on the cloth. Rather than a shroud it looks like an encyclopedia"

Claim: THE MAN OF THE SHROUD HAS LONG HAIR, WHICH IS FORBIDDEN IN THE GOSPELS
Reply: Skeptics will often quote to me from 1 Corinthians 11:14 – “Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?” (this and other verses in this article are from the
KJV translation). Well, yes, that is what it says. But when exactly was that written? I am not a New Testament scholar, but I know that Paul wrote that about twenty years after the death of Jesus! So this
rule would NOT have applied to him or his disciples, since it had not been written yet! What laws did they follow ? The best way to address that is to look to the Old Testament, which was the law in Jesus’s time. Here is what it says about long hair and beards: Numbers 6:5 (Re the Nazarite’s vow) - “All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.” And in Leviticus 19:27 – “Ye shall not round [i.e., cut] the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar [i.e., cut] the corners of thy beard.”
Jews were literally forbidden to cut their hair and beards and you can still see that today in any Orthodox or Hassidic Jewish communities where all adult males have long hair and beards. Jesus followed the Law of Moses!

Shroud of Turin 426

http://docshare04.docshare.tips/files/14267/142675557.pdf



Last edited by Admin on Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:02 pm; edited 11 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

4Shroud of Turin Empty Videos about the Shroud on Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:58 pm

Otangelo


Admin
Videos about the Shroud

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t1688-shroud-of-turin#7137

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OiKx7La4jU&fbclid=IwAR2C4IHpF5kTnbIa8EeicmcYL1rYv_URfHL_RFPJLX4oeICcCZxFQ03KALM


The attributes of the image it's this:

- it's superficial penetrates only the top two microfibers is no directionality such as with brushstrokes
- there's no outline to the image
- is no cementing of fibers as with paint
- it's uniform and intensity top to bottom front to back you think you need a piece of technology to do that
- there's no variations in density as with known artworks every artist gets a little bit more they're a little bit less there
- there's no evidence of that there's no particles between the threads such as some kind of a dust rubbing
- there's no capillary action no evidence that that any that any liquids were applied to the image to bring forth or to the image area
- there's no paint binder present nothing to bind any pigment to the cloth
- it's a negative image with distance information encoded into it
- it's blood from actual wound it's a AB+ blood with human DNA and
- there's no image under the blood now

that's interesting no image under the blood which tells you this that the order of events is is that is that the
blood was on the cloth first followed by the image when did the image get there we don't know maybe three days later I don't know just later and so so now that makes sense if it's authentic


Scroll down, and there are links to four movies on the Shroud, not on YouTube
https://www.shroudenigma.com/

https://vimeo.com/search?q=shroud+of+turin

How did the shroud of Turin get its 3D image of a crucified and tortured man ?

If the shroud portrays Christ, then he did ressurrect.

And you will meet him. Either as your judge for damnation, or as your savior for eternal life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9K3yw0oKr4


Turin Shroud: The New Evidence (Shroud of Turin) | History Documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVovTvDjjCg&fbclid=IwAR32qrwJJK8z6ITkVzzaSBTZS2FeokrGIpz0A47uhC0v12oo7Z9Hv_xBgVI











Real Face of Jesus Project by Ray Downing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsQ1m_sGFt4&feature=emb_title



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IubZXanfXDc&t=43s&fbclid=IwAR0aJrPrJrg9R5JnNF8HZHcXNisG_mC1MUNhayX8bJ3mjDsqRP4Kg3xM1uU



Proof that the Shroud of Turin is the Burial Cloth of Jesus Christ!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRB16BARvz0



The Shroud of Turin is the authentic burial shroud of Jesus Christ! Here are two comprehensive detailed documentaries in which all the evidence is examined which is irrefutable in scientific and legal terms. I have studied this subject in detail for many years and have come to that conclusion based on all the available evidence.
It is God's miraculous photograph of Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah of Israel, taken nearly 2,000 years ago which proves both the crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ. It is also a 3-D hologram with encoded information that would not be revealed until our own time to further prove its authenticity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tmka1l8GAQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3xxjwU0H6w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2swl6YLLb0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=EQjQ2A1_vOc&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0WB0-M0_16mhH2B-jOruzv90SqFHUPDm1Der8gHnL81TErX4DKsH4yQG0



Last edited by Admin on Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:49 am; edited 16 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

5Shroud of Turin Empty Images on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:00 pm

Otangelo


Admin
Shroud of Turin 2022

Shroud of Turin Full_l10

Shroud of Turin 1926

Shroud of Turin Jesus_13

Shroud of Turin Christ10

Shroud of Turin Hqdefa10

Shroud of Turin 17952510


Shroud of Turin NqlRFoI

Shroud of Turin 81101510

Shroud of Turin Jesus10



Last edited by Admin on Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:39 am; edited 9 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

6Shroud of Turin Empty Age of the shroud of turin on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:01 pm

Otangelo


Admin
Age of the shroud of turin

An instructive inter-laboratory comparison: The 1988 radiocarbon dating of the Shroud of Turin
Accepted 24 September 2019
The Shroud is unique because on one surface it contains clearly visible front and back images of a man, apparently crucified. Quite apart from any religious significance, the Shroud became, and remains, the focus of scientific inquiry because it is not known how the images on it were formed.

Most recently Casabianca et al. (2019), based on information obtained after a legal filing with the British Museum, showed that some of the original Shroud date measurements reported by the three laboratories to the British Museum were modified from their original ‘raw’ laboratory values and transformed into their published form using an unstated methodology.

Our review and analysis of the Shroud radiocarbon data reveal a significant shortcoming in the original report by Damon et al. (1989). The shortcoming begins with the lack of adherence to the protocol that W-W define for combining the inter-laboratory data sets.

Rogers (2005) proposed a method for cross checking the dates of ancient textiles by measuring the loss of vanillin from residual lignin at the growth nodes of linen fibers. The tests he performed on the Shroud threads suggested to him a much greater age than the results Damon et al.

Fanti et al. (2013) developed a series of relationships between characteristics of fiber over time and a method of estimating the age of the fabric. He subsequently applied these techniques to a series of fibers extracted from the Shroud and derived an estimated calendar age of 90 AD +/− 200 yrs (Fanti et al., 2015).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X19301865#b0025


In 2017 French researcher, Tristan Casabianca filed a legal action against the British Museum, which oversaw the C-14 testing labs in 1988. The museum complied and finally releases all the raw data. Casabianca’s research team ran new tests and conclude in their 2019 report that there were numerous dates that fell outside the range published in “Nature.” They prove that the Shroud cloth sample is not homogenous, and the 1988 results, famously reported with “95% confidence” are suspect. Casabianca’s team supports the widely-held belief that something went awry with the C-14 tests, which for the ensuing decades discouraged Shroud research and disparaged the Shroud as a medieval fake. Casabianca and his team are advocating that the Vatican authorize a variety of new 21st-century testing methods not available in 1988 or 1978 during STURP’s testing.
https://www.christianity.com/wiki/jesus-christ/what-is-the-shroud-of-turin.html?fbclid=IwAR2Uns3ZPVtC1HFoR-jTDQc84a6PbbkkRCDiMFTwNVNaH-7HzTMv1OX22UU

Studies on the radiocarbon sample from the shroud of turin 
The major problem in estimating the age of the shroud is the fact that the rate law is exponential; i.e., the maximum diurnal temperature is much more important than is the lowest storage temperature. However, some reasonable storage temperatures can be considered to give a range of predicted ages. If the shroud had been stored at a constant 25 ◦C, it would have taken about 1319 years to lose a conservative 95% of its vanillin. At 23 ◦C, it would have taken about 1845 years. At 20 ◦C, it would take about 3095 years. If the shroud had been produced between a.d. 1260 and 1390, as indicated by the radiocarbon analyses, lignin should be easy to detect. A linen produced in a.d. 1260 would have retained about 37% of its vanillin in 1978. The Raes threads, the Holland cloth, and all other medieval linens gave the test for vanillin wherever lignin could be observed on growth nodes. The disappearance of all traces of vanillin from the lignin in the shroud indicates a much older age than the radiocarbon laboratories reported
http://www.shroud.it/ROGERS-3.PDF

Radiocarbon dating of the Shroud of Turin

Nature
Damon, P. E., Donahue, D. J., Gore, B. H., Hatheway, A. L., Jull, A. J. T., Linick, T. W., … Tite, M. S. (1989).

337(6208), 611–615. doi:10.1038/337611a0

https://sci-hub.tw/https://www.nature.com/articles/337611a0

Objection: Radiocarbon dating from 1988 demonstrated that the shroud is a fabrication from the 13th century.Reply: 

RADIOCARBON DATING OF THE TURIN SHROUD: NEW EVIDENCE FROM RAW DATA *
University of Oxford 15 February 2019

Recently, we obtained the raw data and, for the first time, measured their convergence with the radiocarbon dates published in Nature.

Our results, which are compatible with those previously reported by many other authors (Brunati 1996; Van Haelst 1997, 2002; Riani et al. 2013), strongly suggest that homogeneity is lacking in the data. The measurements made by the three laboratories on the TS sample suffer from a lack of precision which seriously affects the reliability of the 95% AD 1260–1390 interval. The statistical analyses, supported by the foreign material found by the laboratories, show the necessity of a new radiocarbon dating to compute a new reliable interval. This new test requires, in an interdisciplinary research, a robust protocol. Without this re-analysis, it is not possible to affirm that the 1988 radiocarbon dating offers ‘conclusive evidence’ that the calendar age range is accurate and representative of the whole cloth.
http://sci-hub.tw/https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/arcm.12467


IS THE SHROUD REAL? POSSIBLY.
Christopher Ramsey, the director of the Oxford Radiocarbon Laboratory, thinks more testing is needed. So do many other scientists and archeologists. This is because there are significant scientific and non-religious reasons to doubt the validity of the tests. Chemical analysis, all nicely peer-reviewed in scientific journals and subsequently confirmed by numerous chemists, shows that samples tested are chemically unlike the whole cloth. It was probably a mixture of older threads and newer threads woven into the cloth as part of a medieval repair. Recent robust statistical studies add weight to this theory. Philip Ball, the former physical science editor for Nature when the carbon dating results were published, recently wrote: “It’s fair to say that, despite the seemingly definitive tests in 1988, the status of the Shroud of Turin is murkier than ever.” If we wish to be scientific we must admit we do not know how old the cloth is. But if the newer thread is about half of what was tested – and some evidence suggests that – it is possible that the cloth is from the time of Christ.
https://shroudstory.com/2010/01/22/more-death-certificate-on-the-shroud-of-turin/

New test dates Shroud of Turin to era of Christ
March 13. 2013
New scientific tests on the Shroud of Turin, which went on display Saturday in a special TV appearance introduced by the Pope, dates the cloth to ancient times, challenging earlier experiments dating it only to the Middle Ages. The new test, by scientists at the University of Padua in northern Italy, used the same fibers from the 1988 tests but disputes the findings. The new examination dates the shroud to between 300 BC and 400 AD, which would put it in the era of Christ. It determined that the earlier results may have been skewed by contamination from fibers used to repair the cloth when it was damaged by fire in the Middle Ages, the British newspaper reported.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/03/30/shroud-turin-display/2038295/

Shroud Of Turin Real? New Research Dates Relic To 1st Century, Time Of Jesus Christ
Mar 29, 2013
 Fanti and a research team from the University of Padua conducted three tests on tiny fibers extracted from the shroud during earlier carbon-14 dating tests conducted in 1988 The first two tests used infrared light and Raman spectroscopy, respectively, while the third employed a test analyzing different mechanical parameters relating to voltage. The results date the cloth to between 300 B.C. and 400 A.D.. Fanti said that researchers also found trace elements of soil "compatible with the soil of Jerusalem." "For me the [Shroud] comes from God because there are hundreds of clues in favor to the authenticity," he wrote, adding that there also "no sure proofs." Much of the controversy about the Shroud centers around carbon-14 dating tests from 1988 that concluded the piece of linen was a medieval forgery. However, those results may have been contaminated by fibers used to repair the cloth during the Middle Ages.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/28/shroud-of-turin-real-jesus_n_2971850.html

Giulio Fanti, Saverio Gaeta, The mystery of the Shroud The surprising scientific discoveries on the enigma of the cloth of Jesus, page 49
A linen fabric from Masada, the radiocarbon date of this Masada sample, assessed at the confidence level of the 95%, was between 59 A.D. and 213 AD: since the Jewish fortress was conquered by the Roman army in 74 AD, fabric fabrication cannot be assumed after this date.

Just in reference to the finding of Masada, it is remarkable the fact that numerous parameters derived from the FT-IR and Raman analyzes were very close to those of the Shroud linen. Even if you can't stating a priori that the two linen fabrics have comparable dates, in any case, is significant that the chemical characteristics of the two fabrics are comparable to each other. The final datum of this spectroscopic analysis, with reference to the linear combination of the ratios considered, has provided for the Shroud sample a value of 300 BC ± 400 years at the 95% confidence level. 



1988 CARBON-14 TEST REFUTED
The 1988 Carbon-14 tests done at Oxford, Zurich and Arizona Labs used pieces of the same sample cut from a corner (lower left of above pictures).
1. A Jan 20, 2005 paper in the professional journal ThermoChimica Acta by Dr. Ray Rogers, retired Fellow with the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory and lead chemist with the original science team STURP (the 1978 Shroud of Turin Research Project, involving approximately 35 scientists directly examining the Shroud for five days), has shown conclusively that the sample cut from The Shroud of Turin in 1988 was taken from an area of the cloth that was re-woven during the middle ages.  Here are some excerpts:
"Pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry results from the sample area coupled with microscopic and microchemical observations prove that the radiocarbon sample was not part of the original cloth of the Shroud of Turin. The radiocarbon date was thus not valid for determining the true age of the shroud."
"As part of the Shroud of Turin research project (STURP), I took 32 adhesive-tape samples from all areas of the shroud and associated textiles in 1978."  "It enabled direct chemical testing on recovered linen fibers and particulates".
"If the shroud had been produced between 1260 and 1390 AD, as indicated by the radiocarbon analyses, lignin should be easy to detect.  A linen produced in 1260 AD would have retained about 37% of its vanillin in 1978...  The Holland cloth, and all other medieval linens gave the test [i.e. tested positive] for vanillin wherever lignin could be observed on growth nodes.  The disappearance of all traces of vanillin from the lignin in the shroud indicates a much older age than the radiocarbon laboratories reported."
"The fire of 1532 could not have greatly affected the vanillin content of lignin in all parts of the shroud equally.  The thermal conductivity of linen is very low... therefore, the unscorched parts of the folded cloth could not have become very hot."  "The cloth's center would not have heated at all in the time available.  The rapid change in color from black to white at the margins of the scorches illustrates this fact."  "Different amounts of vanillin would have been lost in different areas.  No samples from any location on the shroud gave the vanillin test [i.e. tested positive]."  "The lignin on shroud samples and on samples from the Dead Sea scrolls does not give the test [i.e. tests negative]."
"Because the shroud and other very old linens do not give the vanillin test [i.e. test negative], the cloth must be quite old."  "A determination of the kinetics of vanillin loss suggests that the shroud is between 1300- and 3000-years old.  Even allowing for errors in the measurements and assumptions about storage conditions, the cloth is unlikely to be as young as 840 years."
"A gum/dye/mordant [(for affixing dye)] coating is easy to observe on... radiocarbon [sample] yarns.  No other part of the shroud shows such a coating."  "The radiocarbon sample had been dyed.  Dyeing was probably done intentionally on pristine replacement material to match the color of the older, sepia-colored cloth."  "The dye found on the radiocarbon sample was not used in Europe before about 1291 AD and was not common until more than 100 years later."  "Specifically, the color and distribution of the coating implies that repairs were made at an unknown time with foreign linen dyed to match the older original material."  "The consequence of this conclusion is that the radiocarbon sample was not representative of the original cloth."
"The combined evidence from chemical kinetics, analytical chemistry, cotton content, and pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry proves that the material from the radiocarbon area of the shroud is significantly different from that of the main cloth.  The radiocarbon sample was thus not part of the original cloth and is invalid for determining the age of the shroud."
"A significant amount of charred cellulose was removed during a restoration of the shroud in 2002."  "A new radiocarbon analysis should be done on the charred material retained from the 2002 restoration."
Raymond N. Rogers. 20 January 2005. Studies on the radiocarbon sample from the shroud of turin. Thermochimica Acta, Vol. 425, Issue 1-2, Pages 189-194.
2. The Fire-Model Tests of Dr. Dmitri Kouznetsov in 1994 and Drs. John Jackson and Propp in 1998, which replicated the famous Fire of 1532, demonstrated that the fire added carbon isotopes to the linen.
Dmitri Kouznetsov, Andrey Ivanov, Pavel Veletsky. 5 January 1996. Effects of fires and biofractionation of carbon isotopes on results of radiocarbon dating of old textiles: the Shroud of Turin. Journal of Archaeological Science, Volume 23, Issue 1, Pages 109-121. doi:10.1006/jasc.1996.0009
Jackson, John P. and Propp, Keith. 1997. On the evidence that the radiocarbon date of the Turin Shroud was significantly affected by the 1532 fire. Actes du III Symposium Scientifique International du CIELT, Nice, France.

NEW TESTS DATE THE SHROUD
New experiments date the Shroud of Turin to the 1st century AD.They comprise three tests; two chemical and one mechanical. The chemical tests were done with Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy (FTIR) and Raman spectroscopy, examining the relationship between age and a spectral property of ancient flax textiles.The mechanical test measured several micro-mechanical characteristics of flax fibers, such as tensile strength.The results were compared to similar tests on samples of cloth from between 3250 BC and 2000 AD whose dates are accurately known.
FTIR identifies chemical bonds in a molecule by producing an infrared absorption spectrum. The spectra produce a profile of the sample, a distinctive molecular fingerprint that can be used to identify its components.
Raman Spectroscopy uses the light scattered off of a sample as opposed to the light absorbed by a sample.It is a very sensitive method of identifying specific chemicals.
The tests on fibers from the Shroud of Turin produced the following dates: FTIR = 300 BC + 400 years; Raman spectroscopy = 200 BC + 500 years; and multi-parametric mechanical = 400 AD + 400 years. All the dates have a 95% certainty. The average of all three dates is 33 BC + 250 years (the collective uncertainty is less than the individual test uncertainties).  The average date is compatible with the historic date of Jesus' death on the cross in 30 AD, and is far older than the medieval dates obtained with the flawed Carbon-14 sample in 1988.  The range of uncertainty for each test is high because the number of sample cloths used for comparison was low; 8 for FTIR, 11 for Raman, and 12 for the mechanical test.  The scientists note that "future calibrations based on a greater number of samples and coupled with ad hoc cleaning procedures could significantly improve its accuracy, though it is not easy to find ancient samples adequate for the test."
They used tiny fibers extracted from the Shroud by micro-analyst Giovanni Riggi di Numana, who gave them to Fanti.Riggi passed away in 2008, but he had been involved in the intensive scientific examination of the Shroud of Turin by the STURP group in 1978, and on April 21, 1988 was the man who cut from the Shroud the thin 7 x 1 cm sliver of linen that was used for carbon dating.
These tests were carried out in University of Padua laboratories by professors from various Italian universities, led by Giulio Fanti, Italian professor of mechanical and thermal measurement at the University of Padua's engineering faculty. He co-authored reports of the findings in 1) a paper in the journal Vibrational Spectroscopy, July 2013, "Non-destructive dating of ancient flax textiles by means of vibrational spectroscopy" by Giulio Fanti, Pietro Baraldi, Roberto Basso, and Anna Tinti, Volume 67, pages 61-70; 2) a paper titled "A new cyclic-loads machine for the measurement of micro-mechanical properties of single flax fibers coming from the Turin Shroud" by Giulio Fanti and Pierandrea Malfi for the XXI AIMETA (Italian Association of Theoretical and Applied Mechanics) congress in 2013, and 3) the 2013 book "Il Mistero della Sindone" (The Mystery of the Shroud), written by Giulio Fanti and Saverio Gaeta in Italian.


Italian scientists have conducted a series of advanced experiments which, they claim, show that the marks on the shroud – purportedly left by the imprint of Christ's body – could not possibly have been faked with technology that was available in the medieval period.
The research will be an early Christmas present for shroud believers, but is likely to be greeted with scepticism by those who doubt that the sepia-coloured, 14ft-long cloth dates from Christ's crucifixion 2,000 years ago.
Sceptics have long claimed that the shroud is a medieval forgery, and radiocarbon testing conducted by laboratories in Oxford, Zurich and Arizona in 1988 appeared to back up the theory, suggesting that it dated from between 1260 and 1390.
But those tests were in turn disputed on the basis that they were skewed by contamination by fibres from cloth that was used to repair the relic when it was damaged by fire in the Middle Ages.
The new study is the latest intriguing piece of a puzzle which has baffled scientists for centuries and spawned an entire industry of research, books and documentaries


"The double image (front and back) of a scourged and crucified man, barely visible on the linen cloth of the Shroud of Turin, has many physical and chemical characteristics that are so particular that the staining ... is impossible to obtain in a laboratory," concluded experts from Italy's National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Development.
The scientists set out to "identify the physical and chemical processes capable of generating a colour similar to that of the image on the Shroud." They concluded that the exact shade, texture and depth of the imprints on the cloth could only be produced with the aid of ultraviolet lasers – technology that was clearly not available in medieval times.
The scientists used extremely brief pulses of ultraviolet light to replicate the kind of marks found on the burial cloth.
They concluded that the iconic image of the bearded man must therefore have been created by "some form of electromagnetic energy (such as a flash of light at short wavelength)." Although they stopped short of offering a non-scientific explanation for the phenomenon, their findings will be embraced by those who believe that the marks on the shroud were miraculously created at the moment of Christ's Resurrection.
"We are not at the conclusion, we are composing pieces of a fascinating and complex scientific puzzle," the team wrote in their report.
Prof Paolo Di Lazzaro, the head of the team, said: "When one talks about a flash of light being able to colour a piece of linen in the same way as the shroud, discussion inevitably touches on things like miracles and resurrection." "But as scientists, we were concerned only with verifiable scientific processes. We hope our results can open up a philosophical and theological debate but we will leave the conclusions to the experts, and ultimately to the conscience of individuals."
The research, conducted in laboratories in Frascati, a town outside Rome famous for its white wine, backs up the outcome of tests by a group of 31 American scientists between 1978 and 1981.
The Americans – who called themselves the Shroud of Turin Research Project or STURP – conducted 120 hours of X-rays and ultraviolet light tests on the linen cloth.
They concluded that the marks were not made by paints, pigments or dyes and that the image was not "the product of an artist", but that at the same time it could not be explained by modern science.
"There are no chemical or physical methods known which can account for the totality of the image, nor can any combination of physical, chemical, biological or medical circumstances explain the image adequately."
The US team – which included nuclear physicists, thermal chemists, biophysicists and forensic pathologists – concluded: "The image is an ongoing mystery." One of Christianity's greatest objects of veneration, the shroud appears to show the imprint of a man with long hair and a beard whose body bears wounds consistent with having been crucified.
Each year it lures millions of pilgrims to Turin Cathedral, where it is kept in a specially designed, climate-controlled case.
Scientists have never been able to explain how the image of a man's body, complete with nail wounds to his wrists and feet, pinpricks from thorns around his forehead and a spear wound to his chest, could have formed on the cloth.
The Vatican has never said whether it believes the shroud to be authentic or not, although Pope Benedict XVI has said that the enigmatic image imprinted on the cloth "reminds us always" of Christ's suffering.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9958678/Turin-Shroud-is-not-a-medieval-forgery.html

Shroud Of Turin Real? New Research Dates Relic To 1st Century, Time Of Jesus Christ

03/28/2013 02:51 pm ET | Updated Mar 29, 2013

After decades of speculation, new research suggests that the Shroud of Turin, one of the Catholic Church's holiest relics, may be the real deal.

Believed by some to have been Jesus' burial cloth, the Shroud has been the subject of much research. The latest battery of experiments led experts to conclude the cloth may have come from the first century A.D., making it old enough to have been used to bury Jesus Christ

Giulio Fanti, a professor of mechanical and thermal measurement at the University of Padua, announced the findings in a book that hit shelves Wednesday in Italy, reports Vatican Insider. Fanti has written several papers about the shroud, including one in 2011 that hypothesized how radiation could have caused the image of a man's bloody face and body to appear on the cloth.

In his most recent effort, Fanti and a research team from the University of Padua conducted three tests on tiny fibers extracted from the shroud during earlier carbon-14 dating tests conducted in 1988, according to Vatican Insider. The first two tests used infrared light and Raman spectroscopy, respectively, while the third employed a test analyzing different mechanical parameters relating to voltage.

The results date the cloth to between 300 B.C. and 400 A.D., per The Telegraph.

In an email with The Huffington Post, Fanti said that researchers also found trace elements of soil "compatible with the soil of Jerusalem."

"For me the [Shroud] comes from God because there are hundreds of clues in favor to the authenticity," he wrote, adding that there also "no sure proofs."

"The tests will revive the debate about the true origins of one of Christianity's most prized but mysterious relics and are likely to be hotly contested by sceptics," The Telegraph's Nick Squires writes about Fanti's experiments.

Much of the controversy about the Shroud centers around carbon-14 dating tests from 1988 that concluded the piece of linen was a medieval forgery. However, those results may have been contaminated by fibers used to repair the cloth during the Middle Ages, according to the BBC.

Fanti's book, Il Mistero della Sindone (translated to The Mystery of the Shroud) , co-authored by journalist Saverio Gaeta, was released ahead of the Easter holiday, as Christians around the world prepare to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus.

The Shroud generally resides in a climate-controlled case in a cathedral in Turin, Italy, and is rarely viewed. It will make a rare televised appearance this year, however, on the Saturday before Easter.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/28/shroud-of-turin-real-jesus_n_2971850.html

RADIOCARBON DATING OF THE TURIN SHROUD: NEW EVIDENCE FROM RAW DATA *
University of Oxford 15 February 2019
http://sci-hub.tw/https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/arcm.12467

Recently, we obtained the raw data and, for the first time, measured their convergence with the radiocarbon dates published in Nature.
Our results, which are compatible with those previously reported by many other authors (Brunati 1996; Van Haelst 1997, 2002; Riani et al. 2013), strongly suggest that homogeneity is lacking in the data. The measurements made by the three laboratories on the TS sample suffer from a lack of precision which seriously affects the reliability of the 95% AD 1260–1390 interval. The statistical analyses, supported by the foreign material found by the laboratories, show the necessity of a new radiocarbon dating to compute a new reliable interval. This new test requires, in an interdisciplinary research, a robust protocol. Without this re-analysis, it is not possible to affirm that the 1988 radiocarbon dating offers ‘conclusive evidence’ that the calendar age range is accurate and representative of the whole cloth.

Problems with the 1988 Carbon Dating
In 1989, the results of 3 independent labs examining a sample of the Shroud taken from the lower left corner caused shockwaves even among agnostic investigators. Their findings indicated a date in the 1300’s.  Since the publication of their findings in 1989, however, several problems have been documented concerning the protocol the researchers used. These include:

The sample of cloth used by the three labs came from the same location on the Shroud, contrary to the protocol set up by STURP which recommended 7 sampling sites with each sample to be sent to 7 different labs.
The sample of cloth used for the carbon dating (known as the Raes sample) is not of the same composition of other areas of the Shroud. In fact, Joseph Marino and Sue Benford show that there are 16th Century fibers woven into the Raes samples and in the sample taken for the 1988 carbon dating (immediately above the Raes samples) – 2000.
Raymond Rogers conducted further research on the contested sample and offered the following conclusion:
“The combined evidence from chemical kinetics, analytical chemistry, cotton content, and pyrolysis/mass spectrometry proves that the material from the radiocarbon area of the Shroud is significantly different from that of the main cloth.The radiocarbon sample was thus not part of the original cloth and is invalid for determining the age of the Shroud.”  1

The Shroud of Turin FIRST CENTURY AFTER CHRIST!, page 156
Very soon, the statistical calculations of the results related to radiocarbon test published by the review in Nature [44] were double-checked, and serious mistakes had been found. For example, engineer Ernesto Brunati, [29, pp. 51–52], [30, p. 37], [31], observed that the statistical parameter of the significance level, published in reference to the Shroud dating, is not 5% but 4.17%; therefore results had not to be combined each other but carefully reexamined.  Furthermore, making a new count of the average ages on the basis of the data published in Nature, Table 1, he obtained that the value of the sample of Arizona was different from that published, reducing the significance level to 1,04%. To put it simply, this significance level indicates that there are about 99 odds out of 100 that the radiocarbon result is not reliable. According to the scholar Remi Van Haelst , who reanalyzed the statistical calculations on the basis of the data published in Nature, the correct conclusion, which should replace the existing one, should be:

The results of radiocarbon measurements of Arizona, Oxford and Zurich yield a calibrated date of 1280–1300 with only a significance level of 1.2%. These results therefore furnish the conclusive evidence that the samples used by labs are NOT homogeneous in C-14 content.

On a Shroud sample, the existence of a biologic complex composed of fungi and bacteria, which covers as a coating the linen fibers and cannot be removed by the conventional cleaning methods
of most carbon dating labs; this, therefore, would have altered the radiocarbon dating.

The American researcher R. Villarreal, analyzing a thread declared coming from the Shroud, provided by R. Rogers and extracted by Professor Luigi Gonella Gonella from the sample taking in 1988, discovered that one end was made of linen but, instead, the other end was made of cotton. This would confirm the hypothesis, sustained by some scholars, that the majority of the samples taken from the Shroud for radiocarbon dating derived from a so-called invisible medieval patching. The fragment of the linen thread analyzed would belong to the Shroud, whereas the other end would be the result of the hypothesized patching.

There is also another hypothesis that states that the whole sample taken from the 1988 test was part of a repair made in the thirteenth century and not after the 1532 fire. This hypothesis would therefore explain why the Chamb`ery fire holes had not been repaired. Did there perhaps exist a document at the time of the sampling that reported this repair and that was used by someone to select the 1988 sampling area?

https://www.magiscenter.com/5-key-pieces-of-evidence-on-the-shroud-of-turin/?fbclid=IwAR1VwXNUczD8cMWhsRlVuIi51IR0QC9ljKSf1JoLfHV9Qn8BacCrCd9EXJ4

In 1988, three different, highly prestigious laboratories, in Tucson, Oxford and Zurich, dated the Shroud from the late Medieval period using the C14 radio-carbon dating method, which allows one to date an archaeological find by measuring how much radioactivity it loses each year. How can you refute such a precise test?
It was disproved by science itself, specifically by a Russian scientist, Dimitri Kuznetsov, a Lenin prize-winner. He had no idea what the Shroud represented, but he is one of the world’s foremost experts in the dating of cloth. His starting-point was the precept that, at just 300° Centigrade, there is isotopic exchange between materials in close proximity. And in 1532, the Shroud was only just saved from a fire in the chapel in Chambéry, in the Savoy region. There was some damage; the triangular burns which can be seen clearly on the Shroud, caused by the silver casket which contained it. But during the fire, the molecules of the cloth were affected by isotopic discharges from the silver, wood, silk and other materials of the casket. This increased the quantity of radiocarbon in the cloth, thereby ‘rejuvenating’ it.

To reinforce his theory, Kuznetsov took a piece of Jewish cloth, carbon dated to two thousand years ago, and subjected it to the same ‘heat treatment’: in subsequent C14 tests, it appeared to have come from a much more recent period.

So the scientists from the three laboratories mentioned made a mistake in their dating. But the margin of error was even greater because the piece of the Shroud which they examined was from the top left-hand corner, a portion which has been much-mended and heavily worn by the elements over the centuries. The average weight of the Shroud is 25 milligrams per square centimetre, but that of the sample examined was 43 milligrams. Basically, they examined a piece of cloth which had been mended many times. But in any case, even if they had chosen a better sample, the quantity of radiocarbon in the cloth had already been increased because of the fire, and so it would have been impossible to date the cloth correctly using this method. Who knows how much younger the Shroud will appear now, as a result of the third fire last year in Turin Cathedral?
https://www.messengersaintanthony.com/content/man-shroud-has-name

Shroud of Turin 125

Shroud of Turin Jesus_12


More sources:
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation24.html?fref=gc&dti=1509309685785723

Why Shroud of Turin's Secrets Continue to Elude Science
As the venerated relic goes on public exhibition, its origin remains a mystery wrapped in an enigma.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/150417-shroud-turin-relics-jesus-catholic-church-religion-science/



Last edited by Admin on Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:31 am; edited 13 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

7Shroud of Turin Empty How was the image made ? on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:07 pm

Otangelo


Admin
How was the image made ?

Coloring of linen fabrics by ultraviolet radiation

From the chemical point of view, the image is due to a molecular modification of the surface of the linen fiber16 constituted of polysaccharides (chains of glucose). These polysaccharides underwent an alteration as a consequence of an acting-at-a-distance phenomenon. In particular, the chemical reaction consists of dehydration with oxidation and conjugation (acid–base reaction). The image is not composed of painting pigments or other substances of that kind.

https://www.academia.edu/12273176/Colorazione_di_tessuti_di_lino_tramite_radiazione_ultravioletta

Our results show that a very short and intense flash of directional VUV radiation can color a linen fabric in order to reproduce many of the peculiar characteristics of the body image of the Shroud of Turin, including color tone, surface coloring of the outermost fibrils of the linen, and the absence of fluorescence. However, it should be noted that the total power of the VUV radiation required for instantly color the surface of a linen corresponding to a human body of medium height, equal to IT corpor body surface area = 2000 MW / cm2 x 17000 cm2 = 34 thousand billion Watts

makes it impossible today to reproduce the entire Shroud image using a single excimer laser, since this power cannot be produced by any VUV light source built to date (the most powerful available on the market reach a few billion watts). Rather, the work summarized in this Technical Report has demonstrated that laser radiation is a suitable tool for studying in detail the physical and chemical processes that they could be the basis of the production of the body image of the Shroud, regardless of the source of radiation (or energy) that may have generated this image.

The Shroud image presents some characteristics that we have not yet managed to reproduce, for example the nuance of the image due to a different concentration of yellow colored fibrils alternating with non fibrils colored. There are sophisticated diffractive optics that would allow to replicate these characteristics too, but this goes far beyond our intentions: our aim is not to demonstrate that a battery of ten thousand lasers excimer can exactly reproduce the body image of the Shroud. Our main purpose is to carry out accurate, controlled and reproducible experiments, suitable to understand the detail of the physical and chemical mechanisms that they produced the Shroud image, thanks to a powerful and versatile tool such as the excimer laser.

We are composing the pieces of a fascinating and complex scientific puzzle. The enigma of the origin of the image of the Shroud of Turin still remains "a provocation to intelligence"

The American scholar A. Adler, backing the image formation as a cause of the corona discharge, supposed the presence of a ball lightning in the sepulcher, referring to a one-of-a-kind phenomenon. The ENEA Frascati Center carried out coloration tests on the Linen on the basis of excimer lasers (emitting a UV spectrum) that gave satisfactory results. However, even in this case it was not clear which kind of physical phenomenon could have triggered the
laser radiation. According to the authors, who carried out an in-depth examination of the issue both from a theoretical and an experimental point of view, corona discharge is the best hypothesis to explain several peculiar features of the Shroud image. At the Department of Industrial Engineering of University of Padua (Padua, Italy), a group of scientists led by Professor Giancarlo Pesavento carried out some tests generating corona discharge on a 1:2 scale manikin covered with conductive paint and enfolded with a Shroud-like cloth.  In this case almost all the chemical-physics characteristics match to those of the Shroud, but one question remains: what could have developed a 300,000 V discharge in the sepulcher? Summing up, the radiation hypothesis, and among these, that stating corona discharge was triggered by an intense electric field, is the most reliable because, also on the basis of experimental
verifications, it allows one to obtain a result that gets close to the peculiar features of the Shroud.

Shroud of Turin 2221

From a physical point of view, the body image has two levels of superficiality. The first level consists of the fact that the image resides on the outermost layer of the linen fibers and the image goes just two or three fibers deep into the thread (see Figure). The superficial image then disappears if a colored thread goes under another thread. A second level of superficiality consists of the fact that the coloration of every fiber constituting the image is only superficial: the polysaccharide cover, approximately 0.2 thousandths of a millimeter (about 0.000008 inches), is colored; the cellulose in the inner side is not. Now that the so-called two-level superficiality of the Shroud image has been described, there is a very interesting and surprising further aspect to be taken into consideration: there are, it seems, actually two imprinted images on the cloth! In fact, from the analysis of the pictures of the dorsal side of the Shroud taken in 2002, it ensued that in correspondence with the face and the hands, there is an image also in the back. Since the Shroud image is superficial, the double image, front and back, implies a double superficiality that is, at least in correspondence with the face, an image on the cloth surface (the main one and most known) and another image, superficial, too, on the opposite side of the Sheet. Between the two sides, there is nothing. Making an analogy, you can imagine a book with the face of the Man of the Shroud on the cover; on the back, another, even fainter, image of the same face; and in the middle, only blanks pages, without any sign of the image.

The double, front and back, body image of the Man of the Shroud reveals such peculiar characteristics that, until now, modern sciences could not reproduce all together at one time on a single cloth. Currently, it is therefore impossible to explain how the Shroud image has been created. The image is not composed of painting pigments or other substances of that kind. the chemical reaction consists of dehydration with oxidation and conjugation (acid–base reaction).

1. It's not a painting 
If this were true, it should be possible to identify the pigments used by chemical analysis, just as conservators can do for the paintings of Old Masters. But the Sturp team found no evidence of any pigments or dyes on the cloth in sufficient amounts to explain the image. Nor are there any signs of it being rendered in brush strokes. In fact the image on the linen is barely visible to the naked eye, and wasn't identified at all until 1898, when it became apparent in the negative image of a photograph taken by Secondo Pia, an amateur Italian photographer. 


2. It's not a photograph
Secondo Pia's photograph showed that the image on the cloth is a negative: dark where it should be bright. This deepens the mystery, and Pia himself casually suggested that the shroud could have been made by some primitive kind of photography. That idea has been inventively pursued by South African art historian Nicholas Allen, who argues that it could in principle have been achieved using materials and knowledge available to medieval scholars many centuries before genuine photography was invented. The key to the idea is the light-sensitive compound silver nitrate, the stuff that darkened the emulsion of the first true photographic plates in the 19th Century, as light transformed the silver salt into tiny black particles of silver metal. 

3. It was not made by a natural chemical process

One of the strange characteristics that the image on the shroud possesses, is that the entire image is very superficial in nature, Around 20 - 30 microns in depth and both facial images are like this, with nothing in between. It has been confirmed that the image is the result of oxidation, dehydration and conjugation of the fibers of the shroud themselves. It is like the imaged areas on the shroud suddenly rapidly aged compared to the rest of the shroud. Professor Giulio Fanti did similar work but he was using a lower resolution image which i believe he scanned from a book. The image on the shroud is the only one of it's kind in this world,and there are no known methods that can account for the totality of the image,nor can any combination of physical, chemical, biological or medical circumstances explain the image adequately (S.T.U.R.P's conclusion) I have some of the highest resolution images of the shroud ever taken. Which include G. Enries digitized images,Barrie Schwortz & Vern Millers STURP images,Giancarlo Durantes 1997,2000,2002 & 2010 images and Haltadefiniziones (HAL9000) images.


If the coloured imprint comes from the darkening of the cellulose fibres of the cloth, what might have caused it? One of the doyens of scientific testing of the shroud, Raymond Rogers of the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, argued in 2002 that a simple chemical transformation could do the job. He suggested that even very moderate heat - perhaps 40C (104F) or so, a temperature that post-mortem physicians told him a dead body could briefly attain if the person died from hyperthermia or dehydration - could be enough to discolour the sugary carbohydrate compounds that might be found on the surface of cotton fibres. It doesn't take a miracle, Rogers insisted. This is a reassuringly mundane idea, but there is little evidence for it in this particular circumstance - it's not as if it happens all the time on funeral shrouds. 

On the left, the first superficiality level is shown by the Shroud linen thread model, magnified 300 times, constituted of drinking straws; on the right, the second level of superficiality is highlighted by the fact that,
removed from the colored layer, the straw (fiber) is uncolored.

From a physical point of view, the body image has two levels of superficiality. The first level consists of the fact that the image resides on the outermost layer of the linen fibers and the image goes just two or three fibers deep into the thread (see Figure). The superficial image then disappears if a colored thread goes under another thread. A second level of superficiality consists of the fact that the coloration of every fiber constituting the image is only superficial: the polysaccharide cover, approximately 0.2 thousandth of a millimeter (about 0.000008 inches), is colored; the cellulose in the inner side is not. Now that the so-called two-level superficiality of the Shroud image has been described, there is a very interesting and surprising further aspect to be taken into consideration: there are, it seems, actually two imprinted images on the cloth! In fact, from the analysis of the pictures of the dorsal side of the Shroud taken in 2002, it ensued that in correspondence with the face and the hands, there is an image also in the back. Since the Shroud image is superficial, the double image, front and back, implies a double superficiality that is, at least in correspondence with the face, an image on the cloth surface (the main one and most known) and another image, superficial, too, on the opposite side of the Sheet. Between the two sides, there is nothing. Making an analogy, you can imagine a book with the face of the Man of the Shroud on the cover; on the back, another, even fainter, image of the same face; and in the middle, only blanks pages, without any sign of the image.

The double, front and back, body image of the Man of the Shroud reveals such peculiar characteristics that, until now, modern sciences could not reproduce all together at one time on a single cloth. Currently, it is therefore impossible to explain how the Shroud image has been created. The image is not composed of painting pigments or other substances of that kind. the chemical reaction consists of dehydration with oxidation and conjugation (acid–base reaction).



Shroud of Turin OO9mdVg
https://shroudstory.com/



Last edited by Admin on Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:08 pm; edited 6 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin
Shroud, new study: there is blood of a man tortured and killed 1

Barrie Schwortz was a member of the Shroud of Turin Research Project (often abbreviated as STURP) a team of scientists which performed a set of experiments and analyses on the Shroud of Turin during the late 1970s and early 1980s. STURP issued its final report in 1981.

After 18 years as a skeptic, in 1995, when confronted with the evidence that the blood on the shroud was of a tortured man, he became convinced of the authenticity of the Shroud, and became a Christian.
"At the beginning of my work, I was very skeptical about its authenticity. I felt no particular emotion toward Jesus because I was raised as an orthodox jew. The only thing I knew about Jesus was that he was a jew, and this was all. Examining the Shroud, I quickly realized that it was painted ".
After 18 years of study, the full conviction came when "the Blood Chemistry Allen Adler, another jew who was part of the study group, I explained why the red blood remained on the Shroud. The old blood would have to be black or brown, while the blood on the Shroud is a red-crimson. It seemed inexplicable, instead it was the last piece of the puzzle. After nearly 20 years of investigation, it was a shock for me to discover that the piece of cloth was the authentic cloth that had been wrapped the body of Jesus. The conclusions I arrived were based exclusively on scientific observation ".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G4sj8hUVaY

The blood strains can only be seen with UV light. Why would an artist back then ever put blood there which would not be visible, and providing no advantage at all. But even more remarkable than that, the wide presence of creatinine particles bound to ferrihydrite particles is not a situation typical of the blood serum of a healthy human organism. Indeed, a high level of creatinine and ferritin is related to patients suffering of strong polytrauma like torture. Hence, the presence of these biological nanoparticles found during our experiments point a violent death for the man wrapped in the Turin shroud.” What appears to be blood on the Shroud has passed 13 tests proving that it is real human blood.  The presence of "X" and "Y" chromosomes indicates that the blood is from a male.  The blood type is AB.  

When a person is cruelly tortured, the blood undergoes a terrible haemolysis, when the haemaglobin literally ‘breaks up’. In thirty seconds, the reaction reaches the liver, which doesn’t have time to deal with it, and discharges a volume of bilirubin into the veins. Alan Adler has discovered a very high quantity of this substance in the blood on the Shroud. It is this substance that, when mixed with methemoglobin of a certain type, produces that vivid red colour. The colour of the blood belonging to the ‘Man of the Shroud’ is chemical proof that, before dying, he suffered terrible torture.

According to Professor Giulio Fanti of the University of Padua, the analyses show how “the peculiar structure, size and distribution of the nanoparticles cannot be artifacts made over the centuries on the fabric of the Shroud.” Many fanciful reconstructions of the Turin Shroud being a painted object are once again denied.” Additionally, Fanti says, “the wide presence of creatinine particles bound to ferrihydrite particles is not a situation typical of the blood serum of a healthy human organism. Indeed, a high level of creatinine and ferritin is related to patients suffering of strong polytrauma like torture. Hence, the presence of these biological nanoparticles found during our experiments point a violent death for the man wrapped in the Turin shroud.”

There is no longer any doubt that the Shroud has wrapped the body of a man tortured and killed in the same manner as described in the Gospels for the Crucifixion of Jesus. 

Atomic resolution studies detect new biologic evidences on the Turin Shroud 2
We performed reproducible atomic resolution Transmission Electron Microscopy and Wide Angle X-ray Scanning Microscopy experiments studying for the first time the nanoscale properties of a pristine fiber taken from the Turin Shroud. We found evidence of biologic nanoparticles of creatinine bounded with small nanoparticles of iron oxide. The kind, size and distribution of the iron oxide nanoparticles cannot be dye for painting but are ferrihydrate cores of ferritin. The consistent bound of ferritin iron to creatinine occurs in human organism in case of a severe polytrauma. Our results point out that at the nanoscale a scenario of violence is recorded in the funeral fabric and suggest an explanation for some contradictory results so far published.

Conclusions
On the basis of the experimental evidences of our atomic resolution TEM studies, the man wrapped in the TS suffered a strong polytrauma. We studied a fiber of the TS by atomic resolution TEM experiments and WAXS. This is the first time that the TS is studied at this resolution and this range of view produced a series of experimental results, which thanks to recent studies on ancient dye painting, ferritin, creatinine and human pathology can be connected and understood in relationship with a macroscopic scenario in which the TS was committed [41,42,43]. In fact, the fiber was soaked with a blood serum typical of a human organism that suffered a strong trauma, as HRTEM evidenced that the TS is covered by well-dispersed 30nm-100nm creatinine nanoparticles bounded with internal 2nm-6nm ferrihydrate structures. The bond between the iron cores of ferritin and creatinine on large scale occurs in a body after a strong polytrauma [41,42,43]. This result cannot be impressed on the TS by using ancient dye pigments, as they have bigger sizes and tend to aggregate, and it is highly unlikely that the eventual ancient artist would have painted a fake by using the hematic serum of someone after a heavy polytrauma.

1. http://www.lastampa.it/2017/07/11/vaticaninsider/eng/inquiries-and-interviews/shroud-new-study-there-is-blood-of-a-man-tortured-and-killed-c1jdACNKkTlD9YBPS4kFXM/pagina.html
2. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0180487



Last edited by Admin on Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

9Shroud of Turin Empty THE SHROUD AS AN ANCIENT TEXTILE on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:17 pm

Otangelo


Admin
THE SHROUD AS AN ANCIENT TEXTILE

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t1688-shroud-of-turin#7142

Below is a summary of scientific and historical evidence supporting the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin as the ancient burial cloth of the historical Jesus of Nazareth.
by J. Michael Fischer, adapted from the original article by John C. Iannone[

Stitching used to sew on the 3-inch wide side piece onto the main Shroud is nearly identical to that found at Masada which was destroyed in 73-74 AD. The size of the Shroud being very close to 2 by 8 cubits - the ancient unit of measurement

The Shroud is a linen cloth woven in a 3-over-1 herringbone pattern, and measures 14'3" x 3'7".  These dimensions correlate with ancient measurements of 2 cubits x 8 cubits - consistent with loom technology of the period.  The finer weave of 3-over-1 herringbone is consistent with the New Testament statement that the "sindon" (or shroud) was purchased by Joseph of Arimathea, who was a wealthy man.

In 1532, there was a fire in the church in Chambery, France, where the Shroud was being kept.  Part of the metal storage case melted and fell on the cloth, leaving burns, and efforts to extinguish the fire left water stains.  Yet the image of the man was hardly touched.
In 1534, nuns sewed patches over the fire-damaged areas and attached a full-size support cloth to the back of the Shroud.  This became known as the "Holland" backing cloth.
The Shroud was moved to Turin in 1578, where it remains to this day.

In 2002, a team of experts did restoration work, such as removing the patches from 1534 and replacing the backing cloth.  One of the specialists was Swiss textile historian Mechthild Flury-Lemberg.  She was surprised to find a peculiar stitching pattern in the seam of one long side of the Shroud, where a three-inch wide strip of the same original fabric was sewn onto a larger segment.
The stitching pattern, which she says was the work of a professional, is quite similar to the hem of a cloth found in the tombs of the Jewish fortress of Masada.  The Masada cloth dates to between 40 BC and 73 AD.
This kind of stitch has never been found in Medieval Europe.

Shroud of Turin 14_mas11



Last edited by Admin on Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:42 pm; edited 5 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

10Shroud of Turin Empty BLOOD EVIDENCE on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:18 pm

Otangelo


Admin
BLOOD EVIDENCE (vs PAINT THEORY)
Most bloodstains on the Shroud are exudates from clotted wounds transferred to the cloth by contact with a wounded human body.
The blood on the Shroud is real, human male blood of the type AB (typed by Dr. Baima Ballone in Turin and confirmed in the U.S.).  This blood type is rare (about 3% of the world population), with the frequency varying from one region to another.  Blood chemist Dr. Alan Adler (University of Western Connecticut) and the late Dr. John Heller (New England Institute of Medicine) found a high concentration of the pigment bilirubin, consistent with someone dying under great stress or trauma and making the color more red than normal ancient blood.  Drs. Victor and Nancy Tryon of the University of Texas Health Science Center found X & Y chromosomes representing male blood and "degraded DNA" (approximately 700 base pairs) "consistent with the supposition of ancient blood."

The wound on the wrist appears on the Shroud as a simple blood-stain. But if you pass an optical fibre between the cloth and the protective lining which was stitched to the Shroud in Chambéry in 1532, and photograph it from behind, the wound appears to be square. Due to dehydration, Jesus’ blood was very dense. Only in the place where the nail was removed was the blood sufficiently liquid to leave a trace, on the back of the cloth. There is a church in Rome, the Holy Cross of Jerusalem, where some objects of the Passion were donated by Saint Helen, the mother of Emperor Constantine. She had found them at Golgotha, where her son had conducted the first archaeological dig in history, thereby discovering Jesus’ tomb, over which the emperor Hadrian had built a huge pagan temple. Only centuries later was doubt first cast upon these relics which, up to then, had always been considered authentic. One of these relics was a nail said to have held Jesus to the cross.

I was overcome with emotion on discovering that the wound inflicted upon the ‘Man of the Shroud’ by the nail planted in his wrist, exactly one centimetre square, corresponds to the size of the nail found by Saint Helen. What is more, one of the other relics kept in the Church of the Holy Cross is a length of wood said to have been placed over the Cross with the name of the condemned man. On it, in Hebrew (written from right to left), Greek and Latin, is ‘Jesus the Nazarene’.
https://www.messengersaintanthony.com/content/man-shroud-has-name

https://shroudstory.com/



Last edited by Admin on Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:06 am; edited 2 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

11Shroud of Turin Empty Pre 13th century history of the Shroud on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:22 pm

Otangelo


Admin
Pre 13th century history of the Shroud

In the beginning of the history of the Church, the Jesus burial sheet was probably kept hidden for several reasons: first of all, it was a very precious “memory,” having enveloped He who sacrificed Himself on the Cross. Furthermore, Christians feared that someone could seize and destroy it: the Hebrews, in compliance with Mosaic Law, considered everything that had touched a corpse as impure; and not Hebrews judged the punishment of crucifixion as ignominious. The reasons why the protectors of the Shroud wanted to keep it hidden are then clear. Nino, who evangelized Georgia under the Constantine empire (306–337), inquired after the Shroud to Niafori, his master, and to other Christian scholars of Jerusalem. He learned that the burial cloths had been for some time in possession of Pilate’s wife, and after, they were handed by Luke the evangelist, who stored them in a safe place known only to himself. In the fourth century, in Edessa there was the certainty that the city owned an image of Christ, created by God and not produced by the hands of man. It is said that when the image was shown it was folded in eight layers: the result of creasing the Shroud in this way gives a long rectangle with the head in its center, without a neck. This is exactly the same image shown in the copies of the Image of Edessa.

In the fourth century, in Edessa there was the certainty that the city owned an image of Christ, created by God and not produced by the hands of man. It is said that when the image was shown it was folded in eight layers: the result of creasing the Shroud in this way gives a long rectangle with the head in its center, without a neck. This is exactly the same image shown in the copies of the Image of Edessa. A tenth-century codex, named Codex Vossianus Latinus Q69, found by Gino Zaninotto  and preserved in the library of the Rijksuniversiteit of Leiden (the Netherlands), sheds some light over the obscure centuries of the Shroud in Turkey: it contains an eighthcentury account, coming from the Syriac area and translated by Smira archiater, saying that an imprint of Christ’s whole body was left on a canvas kept in the cathedral of Saint Sophie at Edessa. Also in the Second Council of Nicaea (787), debating the veneration of holy images, there were been various talks about the Image of Edessa, not produced by the hands of man.

The great fame of the face of Jesus imprinted on a canvas spread both in the East and the West. In 944, the Byzantine army, during an offensive against the Arab Sultanate of Edessa, came into possession of the Mandylion and took it solemnly to its capital. Another confirmation of the arrival of the Shroud in Constantinople is given by the image painted by John Skylitzes13 in his homonymous codex in which is depicted the arrival of the relic in Constantinople in 944

The arrival of the Shroud to Constantinople in A.D. 944 (Madrid Skylitzes, Biblioteca Nacional de Madrid).

The Blessed Sebastian Valfre, who restored the Shroud in 1694, wrote, “The Cross received Jesus alive and returned Him dead; the Shroud received Jesus dead and returned Him alive.” The first author, leaving a scientific perspective and after long years dedicated to studying the Shroud, reaches the following conclusions on the subject. The Shroud is a particular “photograph” of Jesus Christ in His Resurrection, displaying the signs of the tortures He freely suffered for us all to be redeemed. It is the only “photograph” of Himself He allowed us to admire. It is addressed to the many doubtful persons and to those whose Christian faith is weak, reminding them that Jesus Christ has lived, and is living now, among us, and will be waiting for us at the end of our earthly life. In fact the Shroud has been especially given for persons with the hope that many others, pushed by the scientific interest aroused by this “impossible image,” come closer to Him and love Him better.

The Shroud shows a man crucified with nails, as reported by Christianity, but notably, that man was crowned by thorns. Nailing was not uncommon in Roman times, but crowning with thorns was a unique or extremely rare procedure reserved for alleged kings. The fact that the Shroud Man was crowned with thorns supports therefore the idea that the Man of the Shroud is Jesus Himself.

The Shroud of Turin FIRST CENTURY AFTER CHRIST!, page 23

Shroud of Turin 72670-10
Byzantine era coin dating from AD 692 shows Jesus on a cross bearing a remarkable resemblance to Shroud face.



Early Second Century - Christian persecutions in the Second century were supposedly the reason why the cloth was hidden inside the fortified wall surrounding the city of Edessa.


525 A.D. - After a severe flood destroyed most of Edessa, the cloth was rediscovered when the walls —where the cloth had been hidden for over 400 years —were being rebuilt. The cloth became known as "The Image of Edessa" and later was called “The True Likeness of Christ not made by human hands.” All Orthodox icons of Jesus and Byzantine coins dramatically change to conform to the True Likeness featuring long hair, full beard, large eyes, and flattened nose—all stylistically similar to the Shroud image. 


944 A.D. - The Byzantine Imperial Army invaded Edessa for the express reason of retrieving the cloth from the city which had fallen to Islam. It was taken to Constantinople (now Istanbul) and presented to the Emperor.






Shroud of Turin RWTk5pU


Specifically, the scourge marks on the shoulders, back, and legs of the Man of the Shroud match the flagrum (Roman whip) which has three leather thongs, each having two lead or bone pellets (plumbatae) on the end.  The lance wound in the right side matches the Roman Hasta (4cm x 1 cm spear wound).  Iron nails (7" spikes) were used in the wrist area (versus the palms as commonly depicted in Medieval art).  These marks, combined with the capping of thorns which is not found anywhere else in Crucifixion literature of ancient Roman (Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny the Elder or Pliny the Younger) or Jewish historians (Flavius Joesphus, Philo of Alexandria) create a unique signature of the historical Jesus of Nazareth.

BURIAL CONSISTENT WITH ANCIENT JEWISH BURIAL CUSTOM
The burial is consistent with ancient Jewish burial customs in all respects, including the use of cave-tombs, attitude of the body (hands folded over loins), and types of burial cloths.  The Sindon (Shroud) enveloped the body.  The Sudarium was a face-cloth used to cover the face out of respect during removal from the cross through entombment.  It was then removed and placed to one side.  There was also a chin-band holding the mouth closed.  The Othonia were bandages used to bind the wrists and legs.  All are mentioned in the New Testament and evidenced on the Cloth.  Such cloths are spoken of in the Misnah - oral traditions of the Rabbis written down in the second and third century.
The Cave-Tombs were carved out of sides of limestone hills. The presence of Calcium Carbonate (limestone dust) on the Cloth was noted by Dr. Eugenia Nitowski (Utah archaeologist) in her studies of the cave tombs of Jerusalem.  Optical Engineer Sam Pellicori noted in 1978 the presence of dirt particles on the nose as well as on the left knee and heel.  Prof. Giovanni Riggi noted burial mites.  Dr. Garza-Valdes discovered oak tubules (microscopic splinters) in the blood of the occipital area (back of the head) as well as natron salts.  Traces of aloe and myrrh have also been identified on the Cloth.  These are consistent with Jewish burial customs of antiquity.

HISTORICAL REFERENCES
Persian King Chosroes I attacked the Byzantine city of Edessa in 544 AD but was repulsed.  Evagrius Scholasticus (born 536 AD), in his 590 AD book Ecclesiastical History, wrote that the people of Edessa believed an image of Christ of "divine origin" allowed them to destroy the siege mound.  This is the first reference to the Image of Edessa being a divinely created image (acheiropoieta, meaning "not made by human hands").
The legend of King Abgar V, ruler of the city of Edessa (400 miles north of Jerusalem in Turkey) from 13 to 50 AD, locates a cloth with the image of Jesus in Edessa, though it is not called a burial shroud.  It says that Jesus was given a towel, and when He had washed Himself, He wiped His face with it.  His image having been imprinted upon the linen, He sent it to Abgar with a message.  The Acts of Holy Apostle Thaddaeus (6th Century) calls the cloth a tetradiplon (cloth doubled-in-four).  This Greek term only appears twice in historical texts, and both times refers to the Image of Edessa.  Dr. John Jackson's raking light test in 1978 confirmed tetradiplon fold marks in the Shroud.  If it is folded in half three times, the Shroud of Turin displays only the face of the man.  There is a famous icon from the 10th century that depicts the image of Edessa being held by Abgar:

In 943 AD the Byzantine Emperor Romanus I sent an army of 80,000 men to besiege the Muslim-held city of Edessa in order to take the Image of Edessa.  The cloth was given up, and on August 15, 944 AD it arrived in the Byzantine capitol Constantinople.  TheNarration De Imagine Edessena, written one year later gives a history of the Image including the legend of Abgar, and tells of a private viewing of the Image by the future emperor Constantine VII and his two brothers-in-law, the sons of Emperor Romanus.  One of the most famous Medieval Greek writers, monk Symeon Magister Metaphrastes, wrote the Chronicle around 944, which describes the same event.  These documents report that Constantine could see only a faint image, like a "moist secretion, without pigment or the painter's art".  The other two men were said to be barely able to make out an image at all because it was so faint.
The next day, August 16, the population welcomed the Image to the city.  Archdeacon Gregory Referendarius gave a public sermon in which he spoke of the legend of Abgar, and then said "...this reflection... has been imprinted only by the sweat from the face of the originator of life... For these are the beauties that have made up the true imprint of Christ, since after the drops fell, it was embellished by drops from his own side.  Both are highly instructive - blood and water there, here sweat and image."  Till then the cloth had only been reported to have a facial image.
In 958 AD, Emperor Constantine VII sent a letter to his army which was engaged near Tarsus.  To inspire them, he mentioned "...the sacred linens, the sindon which God wore, and other symbols of the immaculate passion."  "Passion" refers to the suffering and death of Christ.  Thus he states clearly that the burial cloth (sindon) was in the possession of the Byzantine Empire.
In 1201 AD, Nicholas Mesarites, overseer of the Imperial Relic Collection in Constantinople, published an inventory.  It includes "...burial sindones of Christ" that "wrapped the... naked body after the Passion... In this place He rises again..."
The French Crusader knight Robert de Clari wrote in his memoirs that the "sindoines in which our Lord had been wrapped" was kept in a church and displayed every Friday, until it disappeared in 1204 with the attack and looting of Constantinople by French Crusaders during the Fourth Crusade.
The Shroud was displayed in 1355 in the French town of Lirey.  It was in the possession of a famous Templar Knight, Geoffrey de Charny, who claimed it was the cloth that "wrapped the Lord Jesus Christ after his death".

SHROUD ILLUSTRATED IN PRAY MANUSCRIPT
In the Budapest National Library is the Hungarian Pray Manuscript, or Pray Codex, the oldest surviving text of the Hungarian language.  It was written between 1192 and 1195 AD (65 years before the earliest Carbon-14 date in the 1988 tests).  One of its illustrations shows preparations for the burial of Christ.  The picture includes a burial cloth with the same herringbone weave as the Shroud, plus 4 holes near one of the edges.  The holes form an "L" shape.  This odd pattern of holes is found on the Shroud of Turin.  They are burn holes, perhaps from a hot poker or incense embers that predate the 1532 fire.  There are four sets of the holes, showing how the Shroud must have been folded in four layers when the holes were made.  The holes in the top layer are large, and they get progressively smaller in the next three.


Shroud of Turin PokerHoles

Shroud of Turin PrayManuscript

Shroud of Turin HolesInPrayCodex

Shroud of Turin HolesInShroud


Shroud of Turin MDmeBpc

Shroud of Turin OzTBCsv

The Christ Pantocrator of St. Catherine’s Monastery at Sinai is one of the oldest Eastern Roman religious icons, dating from the sixth century AD.[1] It is the earliest known version of the pantocrator style that still survives today, and is regarded by historians and scholars to be one of the most important and recognizable works in the study of Byzantine art as well as Eastern Orthodox Christianity

Positive image (above) and negative image (below) of the Pantocrator Icon in the St. Catherine’s Monastery in Sinai (on the left) and the face of the Man of the Shroud (on the right). It is clear how the icon image loses any relevance in the negative version, whereas for the human eye the negative image of the Shroud face is easier to capture. To enhance the comparison with the related positive image, in this illustration, the Shroud face has not been reproduced overturned from left to right as it is done traditionally.

The image on the Shroud is of a man 5 feet 10 1/2 inches tall, about 175 pounds, covered with scourge wounds and blood stains.  Numerous surgeons and pathologists (including Dr. Frederick Zugibe (Medical Examiner - Rockland, New York), Dr. Robert Bucklin (Medical Examiner - Las Vegas, Nevada), Dr. Herman Moedder (Germany), the late Dr. Pierre Barbet (France), and Dr. David Willis (England)) have studied the match between the Words, Weapons and Wounds, and agree that the words of the New Testament regarding the Passion clearly match the wounds depicted on the Shroud, and that these wounds are consistent with the weapons used by ancient Roman soldiers in Crucifixion.


1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_Pantocrator_(Sinai)



Last edited by Admin on Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:00 am; edited 9 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin
THE SUDARIUM CHRISTI - THE FACE CLOTH OF CHRIST

In the Cathedral of Oviedo in northern Spain is a linen cloth called the Sudarium Christi, or the Face Cloth of Christ.  It is often referred to as the Cloth of Oviedo.  The Sudarium Christi is a poor-quality linen cloth, like a handkerchief, measuring 33 by 21 inches.  Unlike the Shroud of Turin, it does not have an image.  However, it does have bloodstains and serum stains from pulmonary edema fluid which match the blood and serum patterns and blood type (AB) of the Shroud of Turin.

Shroud of Turin Sudarium

The Sudarium Christi has a well-documented history.  One source traces the cloth back as far as 570 AD.  Pelayo, Bishop of Oviedo in the 1100's, noted in his Chronicles that the Oviedo Cloth left Jerusalem in 614 AD in response to an attack led by Persian King Chosroes II, and made its way across North Africa to Spain.  It was transported to Oviedo in a silver ark (large box) along with many other sacred relics.  The Sudarium was never in contact with the Shroud since its arrival in Spain around 711 AD.
The Oviedo Cloth was placed around the head at the time of death on the Cross and remained there until the body was to be covered by the Shroud in the Garden Tomb.  Then it was removed and placed to one side (John 20:7).  Oviedo scholar Mark Guscin notes that the practice of covering the face is referenced in the Talmud (Moed Katan 27a).  He adds that Rabbi Alfred Kolatch of New York talks of the Kevod Ha-Met or "respect for the dead" as the reason for covering the head.  Rabbi Michael Tuktzinsky of Jerusalem in his Sefer Gesher Cha'yim (Volume 1, Chapter 3, 1911) offers as a reason that it is a hardship for onlookers to gaze on the face of a dead person.
According to Guscin, studies by members of the Spanish Centre for Sindonology (Dr. Jose Villalain, Jaime Izquierdo and Guillermo Heras of the University of Valencia) using infrared and ultraviolet photography and electron microscopy have demonstrated that this Cloth and the Shroud of Turin touched the same face, although at different points in the burial process.  They note that the length of the nose on both cloths is 8 centimeters (3 Inches).  Tradition and historical information support the idea that the face touched by both cloths was that of the historical Jesus of Nazareth.
Those interested in the work of Oviedo scholar Mark Guscin can read about it in his book The Oviedo Cloth, 1998, The Luttenworth Press, Cambridge, CT. ISBN 07188-2985-9.
Original text by John C. Iannone 1999-2001.  Adapted by J.M. Fischer from 2004 to 2016.
Shroud photos courtesy of Barrie M. Schwortz. 1978



For an in-depth scientific analysis of the Shroud, see Dr. Rogers' FAQ
THE HISTORICAL CASE FOR JESUS


http://www.newgeology.us/THE%20HISTORICAL%20CASE%20FOR%20JESUS.pdf

In his 2007 book THE CASE FOR THE REAL JESUS, Lee Strobel, former legal editor of the Chicago Tribune, interviewed some of the most accomplished historians specializing in ancient texts.The case was made without a single mention of the Shroud of Turin or the Sudarium.



"In recent years, six major challenges to the traditional view of Jesus have emerged... They are among the most powerful and prevalent objections to creedal Christianity that are currently circulating in popular culture." (Page 14)
After grilling the experts, he summarized his findings on pages 266 and 267:
     "Are scholars discovering a radically different Jesus in ancient documents just as credible as the four gospels?No, the alternative texts that are touted in liberal circles are too late to be historically credible - for instance, the Gospel of Thomas was written after AD 175 and probably closer to 200.According to eminent New Testament scholar I. Howard Marshall of the University of Aberdeen in Scotland, the Thomas gospel has 'no significant new light to shed on the historical Jesus.'The Secret Gospel of Mark, with its homoerotic undercurrents, turned out to be an embarrassing hoax that fooled many liberal scholars too eager to buy into bizarre theories about Jesus, while no serious historians give credence to the so-called Jesus Papers.The Gnostic depiction of Jesus as a revealer of hidden knowledge - including the teaching that we all possess the divine light that he embodied - lacks any connection to the historical Jesus.

Is the Bible's portrait of Jesus unreliable because of mistakes or deliberate changes by scribes through the centuries?[/i]No, there are no new disclosures that have cast any doubt on the essential reliability of the New Testament.Only about one percent of the manuscript variants affect the meaning of the text to any degree, and not a single cardinal doctrine is at stake.Actually, the unrivaled wealth of New Testament manuscripts greatly enhances the credibility of the Bible's portrayal of Jesus.

Have new explanations refuted Jesus' resurrection?[/i]No, the truth is that a persuasive case for Jesus rising from the dead can be made by using five facts that are well-evidenced and which the vast majority of today's scholars on the subject - including skeptical ones - accept as true: Jesus' death by crucifixion; his disciples' belief that he rose and appeared to them; the conversion of the church persecutor Paul; the conversion of the skeptic James, who was Jesus' half-brother; and Jesus' empty tomb.All the attempts by skeptics and Muslims to put Jesus back into his tomb utterly fail when subjected to serious analysis, while the overblown and ill-supported claims of the Jesus Tomb documentary and book have been decimated by knowledgeable scholars.

Were Christian beliefs about Jesus stolen from pagan religions?[/i]No, they clearly were not.Allegations that the virgin birth, the resurrection, communion, and baptism came from earlier mythology simply evaporated when the shoddy scholarship of 'copycat' theorists was exposed.There are simply no examples of dying and rising gods that preceded Christianity and which have meaningful parallels to Jesus' resurrection.In short, this is a theory that careful scholars discredited decades ago.

Was Jesus an imposter who failed to fulfill the messianic prophecies?[/i]On the contrary, a compelling case can be made that Jesus - and Jesus alone - matches the 'fingerprint' of the Messiah.Only Jesus managed to fulfill the prophecies that needed to come to fruition prior to the fall of the Jewish temple in AD 70.Consequently, if Jesus isn't the predicted Messiah, then there will never be one.What's more, Jesus' fulfillment of these prophecies against all odds makes it rational to conclude that he will fulfill the final ones when the time is right.

Should people be free to pick and choose what they want to believe about Jesus?[/i]Obviously, we have the freedom to believe anything we want.But just because the U.S. Constitution provides equal protection for all religions doesn't mean that all beliefs are equally true.Whatever we believe about Jesus cannot change the reality of who he clearly established himself to be: the unique Son of God.So why cobble together our own make-believe Jesus to try to fulfill our personal prejudices when we can meet and experience the actual Jesus of history and faith?"

Anyone with doubts about these issues would do well to read all of this excellent book.



Last edited by Admin on Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:22 am; edited 2 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

13Shroud of Turin Empty Re: Shroud of Turin on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:52 pm

Otangelo


Admin
Five reasons why the Shroud of Turin could be authentic

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/04/17/five-reasons-why-the-shroud-of-turin-could-be-authentic-113215

Shroud of Turin front and back negative image. Burn marks from a 1532 fire run the entire length of the cloth.
Today, Christians celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ commonly known as Easter or, less commonly, Resurrection Sunday.
If it were not for this event Christianity, the world’s largest religion, would not exist and Jesus, instead of being the most significant person in history, would have been just another forgotten Jewish man crucified by the Romans around  33 AD.
For those who are truly celebrating Christ’s resurrection today and not absorbed with chocolate-covered marshmallow bunnies, here are some questions, facts and answers that you could roll like eggs at your family’s Easter gathering.
First, the BIG question: Does scientific evidence for Christ’s resurrection exist today? The answer, millions of other faithful and I believe, is “yes” and it is called the Shroud of Turin.

What is the Shroud of Turin? 
It is a linen cloth measuring 14.3 ft by 3.7 ft with the mysterious negative image of a crucified man appearing on the front and back. The Shroud is the most sacred religious relic that exists in the world today as well as the most studied, tested and analyzed.
The Shroud of Turin is preserved in an underground vault in the Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist in Turin, Italy. The next time it will be on public display is April 19 – June 24, 2015.
It has only been since 1983 that the Shroud has been “owned” by the Holy See. (In Catholic-speak this means the current pope.) At that time it was gifted from its previous owners, the House of Savoy, a royal European family in possession of the Shroud since 1453.
The Shroud’s existence and ownership can be directly traced from the year 1390 to the present. However, before 1390 the chain of custody is not historically definitive but there are many interesting clues.
Now, in honor of Easter, here are four scientifically proven groups of reasons and one Biblical reason pointing to the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin.


1. The cloth and what is on it
Scientists have concluded that human male blood appearing on the Shroud is a rare type AB. The blood penetrates the cloth as you would expect but the blood on the cloth was there BEFORE the image of the crucified man. “Blood first, image second” is a phrase familiar to Shroud researchers.
Moreover, the image of the man does not penetrate the cloth and was formed at a later time. Even more remarkable, is that the man’s image can be scraped away with a razor blade because it sits on TOP of the cloth.
Researchers have determined that the weave of the flax linen cloth would have commanded a high price. This is consistent with all the Gospel accounts in the Bible stating that Joseph of Arimathea a “wealthy man,” donated his own tomb and provided the burial shroud that wrapped Jesus.
Additionally, pollen found on the Shroud is consistent with the types of plants and flowers in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus.
Adding to the mystery is travertine aragonite limestone (road dust) almost exclusively found in the vicinity of Jerusalem, is also on the Shroud around the knees and feet.

2. The substance comprising the image is still unknown
Scientists all agree that paints, pigments, stains or dyes could NOT have been used to create the man’s image. This is because substances available to an artist centuries ago would have penetrated the cloth, similar to the blood.
Scientific tests conclude that the substance forming the image was applied with 100 percent consistency. The depth of the image only penetrates the top two microfibers everywhere on the Shroud without ANY variation. A human artist would not be capable of such consistency
More baffling is the man’s image is a photo negative and a “positive image” is only reflected when a photo is taken. This astounding fact was discovered in 1898 by Secondo Pia, an Italian amateur photographer, when he applied the “new technology” of photography to the Shroud.
The man’s image also contains “distance information” which means the image can be read like a 3D map when using relief mapping techniques first developed by NASA. This technology was used to develop the History Channel’s 2010 mega-hit documentary The Real Face of Jesus?

3. The formation of the image
How was the image formed on the cloth? The answer to this question can be found in a 2012 study by world-renowned Shroud researcher Professor Giulio Fanti of Padua University in Italy. His study strongly suggested that the force which caused the man’s image to be imprinted on the cloth was radiation released in the form of an electrical discharge. In layman’s terms, a burst of light and energy.


4. The age of the cloth
Headlines such as: “Shroud of Turin is not a medieval forgery” were typical of what appeared across all media platforms around Good Friday, March 29, 2013. The headlines referred to Professor Fanti’s Shroud dating test, debunking the faulty 1988 carbon-14 testing concluding that the Shroud was a “middle age forgery” dating from the years 1260 – 1390. The carbon-14 test was performed on an outer piece of the Shroud that had been sewn on later for handling purposes.
Fanti’s 2013 test method’s examined the decay rate of microscopic fibers within the Shroud as compared to similar linen cloths known to be both older and newer. As a result, Fanti concluded that the Shroud ranged in age from 280 BC to 220 AD with a 95 percent confidence level. That timeframe obviously includes 33AD when Jesus was wrapped in his burial shroud.


5. Shroud is totally consistent with Biblical accounts of Jesus’ death
Is it a coincidence that every mark left on the Shroud is consistent with the physical torments endured by Jesus Christ as described in the New Testament Bible Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?
The cloth reveals the man was brutalized with a crown of thorns. He wasrepeatedly scourged with Roman flagrum, and suffered nail puncture wounds on his wrists and feet. His knees were bruised from falling and the mark of a spear wound is on his side. Also consistent with the Gospels is that the man in the Shroud had no broken bones.
It is important to note that the Shroud indicates nail marks are on the man’s wrists and not on the palms of the hands as is commonly depicted in statues and paintings. This is intriguing and accurate because the Romans knew that hands would not have supported the weight of a hanging body during crucifixion. However, an “artist forger” would have been more likely to have painted nail wounds on the palms so not to counter accepted norms.
Finally, the larger question for Easter Sunday is how did the Shroud survive fires, wars, clashes of civilizations and general tumult for centuries? For example, the strange marks running the entire length of the Shroud are evidence of just how close a 1532 church fire came to destroying the folded cloth.
It is possible the Shroud survived as evidence of Christ’s resurrection for those who need proof in order to believe in him?
Remember what Christ said to “Doubting” Thomas who insisted on seeing his nail wounds after his resurrection before Thomas would believe in Jesus.  “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:29 NIV
Christians who already believe that the events of Easter Sunday really happened do not need the Shroud of Turin to confirm their faith in Christ’s resurrection, but the Shroud could be considered the perfect intersection of faith and science.



Last edited by Admin on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

14Shroud of Turin Empty How did the Turin Shroud get its image? on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:56 pm

Otangelo


Admin
How did the Turin Shroud get its image?

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t1688-shroud-of-turin#7147

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33164668

1. It's a painting 1
If this were true, it should be possible to identify the pigments used by chemical analysis, just as conservators can do for the paintings of Old Masters. But the Sturp team found no evidence of any pigments or dyes on the cloth in sufficient amounts to explain the image. Nor are there any signs of it being rendered in brush strokes. In fact the image on the linen is barely visible to the naked eye, and wasn't identified at all until 1898, when it became apparent in the negative image of a photograph taken by Secondo Pia, an amateur Italian photographer. The faint coloration of the flax fibres isn't caused by any darker substance being laid on top or infused into them - it's the very material of the fibres themselves that has darkened. And in contrast to most dyeing or painting methods, the colouring cannot be dissolved, bleached or altered by most standard chemical agents. The Sturp group asserted that the image is the real form of a "scourged, crucified man… not the product of an artist". There are genuine bloodstains on the cloth, and we even know the blood group (AB, if you're interested). There are traces of human DNA too, although it is badly degraded.
That didn't prevent the American independent chemical and microscopy consultant, Walter McCrone, who collaborated with the Sturp team, from asserting that the red stains attributed to blood were in fact very tiny particles of the red pigment iron oxide, or red ochre. Like just about every other aspect of the shroud, McCrone's evidence is disputed; few now credit it. Another idea is that the image is a kind of rubbing made from a bas-relief statue, or perhaps imprinted by singeing the fabric while it lay on top of such a bas-relief - but the physical and chemical features of the image don't support this.

2. It was made by a natural chemical process
If the coloured imprint comes from the darkening of the cellulose fibres of the cloth, what might have caused it? One of the doyens of scientific testing of the shroud, Raymond Rogers of the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, argued in 2002 that a simple chemical transformation could do the job. He suggested that even very moderate heat - perhaps 40C (104F) or so, a temperature that post-mortem physicians told him a dead body could briefly attain if the person died from hyperthermia or dehydration - could be enough to discolour the sugary carbohydrate compounds that might be found on the surface of cotton fibres. It doesn't take a miracle, Rogers insisted. This is a reassuringly mundane idea, but there is little evidence for it in this particular circumstance - it's not as if it happens all the time on funeral shrouds. Another idea is that the discoloration of the fibres was caused by a chemical reaction with some substance that emanated from the body. The French biologist, Paul Vignon, proposed in the early 1900s that this substance might have been ammonia, produced by the breakdown of urea in sweat. That won't work, though: the image would be too blurry. In 1982, biophysicist John DeSalvo suggested instead that the substance could be lactic acid from sweat. This compound is one of those responsible for so-called Volckringer images of plant leaves, left for years between the pages of a book: substances are exuded from the leaf and react with paper fibres to produce a dark, negative image.

3. It's a photograph
Secondo Pia's photograph showed that the image on the cloth is a negative: dark where it should be bright. This deepens the mystery, and Pia himself casually suggested that the shroud could have been made by some primitive kind of photography. That idea has been inventively pursued by South African art historian Nicholas Allen, who argues that it could in principle have been achieved using materials and knowledge available to medieval scholars many centuries before genuine photography was invented. The key to the idea is the light-sensitive compound silver nitrate, the stuff that darkened the emulsion of the first true photographic plates in the 19th Century, as light transformed the silver salt into tiny black particles of silver metal. This substance does seem to have been known in the Middle Ages, Allen says: it was described in the writings of the 8th Century Arabic alchemist, Jabir ibn Hayyan, and also by the German Dominican Albertus Magnus in the 13th Century. It could have been coated on to the cloth in a darkened chamber and exposed to sunlight through a lens - made of quartz not glass, since the silver is in fact darkened by ultraviolet light, which glass absorbs but quartz does not. Allen has made replicas of a shroud this way using model figurines. But how the image stays on the cloth when the silver is removed, and how mediaeval forgers gathered all this sophisticated knowledge about optics and chemistry without there being any trace in surviving documents poses problems for the idea. So do various issues about the exact shape and contrast of an image made this way. For most Turin Shroud theorists, Allen's idea is a triumph of ingenuity over plausibility.


Experts question scientist’s claim of reproducing Shroud of Turin

 the crucified body of Jesus, called the Shroud of Turin.  However, CNA spoke with experts who maintain that there are still several major differences between the new shroud and the ancient one.
According to Reuters, Luigi Garlaschelli, an organic chemistry professor at the University of Pavia announced that he and his team “have shown it is possible to reproduce something which has the same characteristics as the Shroud.”  The scientist plans to present his findings at a conference on the paranormal this weekend in Italy.
The Shroud of Turin is considered by many to bear an image of the face of Jesus Christ. Made of herring bone linen, the shroud is nearly four feet by 14 feet and bears faint brown discolorations forming the negative image of a crucified man.
The shroud’s positive image, revealed by modern photography, shows the outline of a bearded man.  While skeptics contend that the shroud is a medieval forgery, scientists have been unable to explain how the image appeared on the cloth.
Garlaschelli and his team, who were funded by an Italian association of atheists and agnostics, created their image by placing the linen over a volunteer before rubbing it with a pigment called ochre with traces of acid.
The linen was then “aged” by heating it in an oven and washing it with water.  Reuters reports that the team then added blood stains, burn holes and water stains to finalize their product.
CNA spoke with Dr. John Jackson who runs the Turin Shroud Center of Colorado and is a physics lecturer at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs.  Jackson led a team of 30 researchers in 1978 who determined that the shroud was not painted, dyed or stained.  He explained to CNA that that based off the Reuters report as well as photos of Garlaschelli’s shroud on the internet, it appeared that it doesn’t exactly match the Shroud of Turin.
Dr. Jackson first questioned the technique used by Garlaschelli’s team, taking issue with the method of adding blood after aging the cloth.  Jackson explained that he has conducted “two independent observations that argue that the blood features on the shroud” show “that the blood was on it first, then the body image came second.”
Dr. Keith Propp, a physicist who is also a colleague of Jackson's, told CNA that while Garlaschelli’s shroud “does create an image that could’ve been done in medieval times,” there are a many things that “are not consistent with what the actual shroud shows us.”
For example, he continued, we know that the blood contacted the shroud before the body “because there’s no image beneath the shroud.”  He added that this image pattern would be difficult to duplicate “because it would ruin the blood stains.”
Another area concern for the scientists is the three dimensionality of the shroud. 
Propp explained that while Garlaschelli’s cloth does have some aspects of light and dark to create a three-dimensional perspective, “it’s nowhere near as sophisticated as the shroud” and that “it misses out on the accuracy and subtleties that are in the actual image.”
Dr. Jackson from the Turin Shroud Center also touched on the same point, saying, “The shroud’s image intensity varies with” the distances in between the cloth and the body.  While he admitted that the images of Garlaschelli’s shroud on the internet look authentic, when taken from a 3-D perspective, “it’s really rather grotesque.”
“The hands are embedded into the body and the legs have unnatural looking lumps and bumps,” he explained.
Jackson noted that he or his colleagues would be open to testing the Garlaschelli shroud or any other “idea about the shroud relative to the scientific characteristics that have been documented in respect to the shroud,” however to do so they would need “more detailed information about what was specifically done.”
Garlachelli’s technique has also received criticism from other experts.  One scientist from the Shroud Science Group, a private forum of about 100 scientists, historians and researchers provided CNA with some of the critiques made in the forum.
One English-speaking expert explained that the blood used on the Shroud of Turin is not whole blood.  “They didn't just go out and kill a goat and paint the blood on the cloth.  The blood chemistry is very specific,” he said explaining that the blood is from “actual wounds.”
He added that most of the blood on the shroud flowed after death. “The side wound and the blood that puddles across the small of the back are post-mortem blood flows,” he said, adding that blood flowing after death “shows a clear separation of blood and serum.”
Propp added, “In some ways, it comes out better than most others I’ve seen before.  Still there are too many things – the shroud is more than just the image.”
Jackson also pointed out that Garlaschelli’s findings have yet to be peer reviewed.  What scientists need “to do is present their work for publication before their peers.”  
He explained that any person can conduct his or her own research, but it doesn’t matter whether or not the author believes his or her hypothesis was proven. In the end, what the scientific community decides “upon seeing and reviewing the work” is what counts, he said.
Pope Benedict has announced that the Shroud will be open for public viewing in 2010 and that he is planning to visit the image at some point during its exposition.
The Catholic Church has not taken an official position on the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin.


http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/experts_question_scientists_claim_of_reproducing_shroud_of_turin/



Last edited by Admin on Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

15Shroud of Turin Empty Re: Shroud of Turin on Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:03 pm

Otangelo


Admin
https://www.shroud.com/78team.htm  If anyone wants to wade through the recent findings on the shroud of turin.https://www.shroud.com/78papers.htm  I found these cited documentaries, sufficient to list the important details of the findings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MMOAV-xYFs  and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta6rWlAjNi0 http://www.shroud.it/ROGERS-3.PDF  I have no confidence whatsoever in ANY radiometric dating methods. I have read enough papers on the topic to be convinced that none of the radiometric methods can date ANYTHING accurately. These videos partially explain why that is the case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVuVYnHRuig and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPD5OlZK6Fw  there are far too many assumptions made to come to any accurate conclusions whatsoever using any of those methods. Nevertheless, upon reexamination, they found that the shroud is "between 1300 and 3000 years old". But there are dozens of facts that clearly conclude it is the burial cloth of the Messiah, Yahoshuah. (watch the documentaries cited) Fools want the whole world to think that https://www.shroud.com/78conclu.htm  all these scientists are FRAUDS; that they are all lying to the world about their findings! Each and every one of those scientists could sue any and all persons claiming the Shroud is a fraud for libel, slander and defamation! Fools want the world to believe they are more of an authority on the topic than the world's leading experts! Fools want people to imagine that the shroud has been fabricated WHEN NO MODERN TECHNOLOGIES CAN REPLICATE IT, in all its details; let alone those of the middle ages! "We can conclude for now that the Shroud image is that of a real human form of a scourged, crucified man. It is not the product of an artist. " - https://www.shroud.com/78conclu.htm  So the next time some God-hating/God-denying atheist/evil-u-shun-ist steps up to claim the Shroud of Turin is a fraud or fabrication, ask them if they're willing to be scourged and crucified like Yahoshuah was in order to prove their claim, because that is what they are suggesting when they accuse the Shroud, the burial cloth of Yahoshuah Ha Meschiach, of not being authentic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sqTJWvemfU  People everywhere need to understand that the Shroud of Turin is the most studied artifact in the entire history of the world. So the scientific opinion that it is factually an image of scourged and crucified man and that image and the details of the Shroud cannot be replicated by any known method to date; should give pause to any and all skeptics to reconsider their opinion before claiming the Shroud is anything but the authentic burial cloth of Yahoshuah Ha Meschiach. People act like radiometric dating is a reliable method for dating things, when all forms of radiometric dating are not. Let me give an illustration as to why that is the case. A person buys a package of candles, new candles all the same length. In order to give an illustration of just one of the assumptions, they cut the candles into various lengths and light them all, then ask viewers to tell how long each one has been burning. The viewers carefully study the burn rate of the candles and come to their conclusions. given FACTS: the studied candles in question are all the same age, and candles have all been burning the same length of time in the same environmental conditions ASSUMPTIONS: each candle contains the same wax and composition, and were the same length when lit and burned by the same observed method that the viewers beheld. So of course the viewers all come to incorrect conclusions. And that is only very few of the reasons radiometric dating of any and all kinds are completely unreliable. https://www.facebook.com/notes/michael-swenson/christ-crucified-and-resurrected/735365403209088/

The Shroud of Turin, Authenticated Again
First among the major mysteries is how the image was made. Second, what is the substance constituting the image, which can be scraped away with a razor blade? The substance is undetermined — all man-made materials have been ruled out — and only rests on top of the cloth; it does not penetrate the cloth’s linen fibers. The third mystery is related to the second: Blood from the crucified man penetrated the cloth, as one would expect, but also preceded the impression of the man’s image. “Blood first, image second” is a mantra of Shroud researchers. This order is logical if the “man in the Shroud” was in fact Christ, who would have been wrapped in the linen Shroud days before the electrical event (see below) that accompanied his resurrection and resulted in the human image. The patterns of blood flow on the Sudarium are consistent with those of a crucified man.Fanti concluded that an electrical charge in the form of radiation is what likely caused the man’s image to be imprinted on the Shroud. He has also dated the Shroud to the time of Jesus, debunking the flawed carbon-14 testing conducted in 1988.  
I recommend that you research first the Shroud and then the Sudarium. Both have survived centuries. Their markings are consistent with Scripture accounts of Christ’s torture and execution. Both contain not only the same rare blood type but also pollen of a kind found only in ancient Israel. The Shroud and the Sudarium authenticate each other.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/434153/shroud-turin-jesus-christ-blood-relic-sudarium-oviedo

Shroud of Turin in 3D
The first photographs that were taken by SECONDO PIA in 1898 showed the positive image of a man on the negative glass plates that he used, and also showed that the original image on the Shroud had the properties of a photographic negative. This aroused the interest of the scientific community and from that moment on the Shroud became the most investigated artifact in the world. One of these scientists, in the early part of the 20th century was PAUL VIGNON from the University of Paris, and he spent quite some time investigating the Shroud. One of his observations was, that the image on the Shroud varied inversely with the cloth-to-body distance, which means that the parts of the body that were close to the cloth, were imaged darker than the parts that were further away. The density of the image is proportional to the distance between the body and the cloth and that is caused by the fact that more fibers per square unit are discolored. This translates to 3D information encoding of the image in the grayscale of the photographs of the Shroud. VIGNON could not prove his observations scientifically.
http://shroud3d.com/home-page/introduction-3d-studies-of-the-shroud-of-turin-history

Physical Descriptions of Jesus
The Description of Publius Lentullus

The following was taken from a manuscript in the possession of Lord Kelly, and in his library, and was copied from an original letter of Publius Lentullus at Rome. It being the usual custom of Roman Governors to advertise the Senate and people of such material things as happened in their provinces in the days of Tiberius Caesar, Publius Lentullus, President of Judea, wrote the following epistle to the Senate concerning the Nazarene called Jesus.

"There appeared in these our days a man, of the Jewish Nation, of great virtue, named Yeshua [Jesus], who is yet living among us, and of the Gentiles is accepted for a Prophet of truth, but His own disciples call Him the Son of God- He raiseth the dead and cureth all manner of diseases. A man of stature somewhat tall, and comely, with very reverent countenance, such as the beholders may both love and fear, his hair of (the colour of) the chestnut, full ripe, plain to His ears, whence downwards it is more orient and curling and wavering about His shoulders. In the midst of His head is a seam or partition in His hair, after the manner of the Nazarenes. His forehead plain and very delicate; His face without spot or wrinkle, beautified with a lovely red; His nose and mouth so formed as nothing can be reprehended; His beard thickish, in colour like His hair, not very long, but forked; His look innocent and mature; His eyes grey, clear, and quick- In reproving hypocrisy He is terrible; in admonishing, courteous and fair spoken; pleasant in conversation, mixed with gravity. It cannot be remembered that any have seen Him Laugh, but many have seen Him Weep. In proportion of body, most excellent; His hands and arms delicate to behold. In speaking, very temperate, modest, and wise. A man, for His singular beauty, surpassing the children of men"
 http://www.thenazareneway.com/likeness_of_our_saviour.htm


Shroud, new study: there is blood of a man tortured and killed 
According to Professor Giulio Fanti of the University of Padua, the analyses show how “the peculiar structure, size and distribution of the nanoparticles cannot be artifacts made over the centuries on the fabric of the Shroud.” Many fanciful reconstructions of the Turin Shroud being a painted object are once again denied.” Additionally, Fanti says, “the wide presence of creatinine particles bound to ferrihydrite particles is not a situation typical of the blood serum of a healthy human organism. Indeed, a high level of creatinine and ferritin is related to patients suffering of strong polytrauma like torture. Hence, the presence of these biological nanoparticles found during our experiments point a violent death for the man wrapped in the Turin shroud.”

There is no longer any doubt that the Shroud has wrapped the body of a man tortured and killed in the same manner as described in the Gospels for the Crucifixion of Jesus. 
http://www.lastampa.it/2017/07/11/vaticaninsider/eng/inquiries-and-interviews/shroud-new-study-there-is-blood-of-a-man-tortured-and-killed-c1jdACNKkTlD9YBPS4kFXM/pagina.html


Atomic resolution studies detect new biologic evidences on the Turin Shroud 2
We performed reproducible atomic resolution Transmission Electron Microscopy and Wide Angle X-ray Scanning Microscopy experiments studying for the first time the nanoscale properties of a pristine fiber taken from the Turin Shroud. We found evidence of biologic nanoparticles of creatinine bounded with small nanoparticles of iron oxide. The kind, size and distribution of the iron oxide nanoparticles cannot be dye for painting but are ferrihydrate cores of ferritin. The consistent bound of ferritin iron to creatinine occurs in human organism in case of a severe polytrauma. Our results point out that at the nanoscale a scenario of violence is recorded in the funeral fabric and suggest an explanation for some contradictory results so far published.

Conclusions
On the basis of the experimental evidences of our atomic resolution TEM studies, the man wrapped in the TS suffered a strong polytrauma. We studied a fiber of the TS by atomic resolution TEM experiments and WAXS. This is the first time that the TS is studied at this resolution and this range of view produced a series of experimental results, which thanks to recent studies on ancient dye painting, ferritin, creatinine and human pathology can be connected and understood in relationship with a macroscopic scenario in which the TS was committed [41,42,43]. In fact, the fiber was soaked with a blood serum typical of a human organism that suffered a strong trauma, as HRTEM evidenced that the TS is covered by well-dispersed 30nm-100nm creatinine nanoparticles bounded with internal 2nm-6nm ferrihydrate structures. The bond between the iron cores of ferritin and creatinine on large scale occurs in a body after a strong polytrauma [41,42,43]. This result cannot be impressed on the TS by using ancient dye pigments, as they have bigger sizes and tend to aggregate, and it is highly unlikely that the eventual ancient artist would have painted a fake by using the hematic serum of someone after a heavy polytrauma.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0180487



Why Shroud of Turin's Secrets Continue to Elude Science
Di Lazzaro and his colleagues at Italy’s National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (ENEA) conducted five years of experiments, using state-of-the-art excimer lasers to train short bursts of ultraviolet light on raw linen, in an effort to simulate the image’s coloration. The ENEA team, which published its findings in 2011, came tantalizingly close to approximating the image’s distinctive hue on a few square centimeters of fabric. But they were unable to match all the physical and chemical characteristics of the shroud image. Nor could they reproduce a whole human figure.

The ultraviolet light necessary to do so “exceeds the maximum power released by all ultraviolet light sources available today,” says Di Lazzaro. It would require “pulses having durations shorter than one forty-billionth of a second, and intensities on the order of several billion watts.”

If the most advanced technologies available in the 21st century could not produce a facsimile of the shroud image, he reasons, how could it have been executed by a medieval forger?

For believers, the radiation thesis suggests that a “divine light” in the tomb might have seared the crucified form of Jesus Christ onto the shroud. “One could look at hypotheses outside the realm of science, a sort of miracle,” says Di Lazzaro. “But a miracle cannot be investigated by the scientific method.”..
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/150417-shroud-turin-relics-jesus-catholic-church-religion-science/



Last edited by Admin on Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

16Shroud of Turin Empty Re: Shroud of Turin on Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:09 pm

Otangelo


Admin
Shroud from Jesus' era found, researchers say
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/12/16/mideast.ancient.shroud/index.html?fref=gc&dti=1509309685785723

"Has Science Proven the Shroud of Turin to Be a Medieval Forgery?" (2): Shroud of Turin News 
April 2016
https://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com.br/2016/05/has-science-proven-shroud-of-turin-to_19.html

They had found no pigments, paints, dyes or stains on the fibers. The image had 3D coding within it. There was no evidence of oils, spices or biochemicals. It was "clear" that the material had been in direct contact with a body -- but there was no explanation for the seemingly perfect image of the face.
Overall, they raised more questions than they were able to solve, with some things explainable by physics precluded by chemistry, and vice versa.
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/shroud-of-turin-mystery-italy/index.html

Was the Turin shroud 'painted' by bacteria?
The image on the Turin shroud was created not by human hands or any mystical power, as has been suggested, but by bacteria. The microbes, he says, multiplied in the wounds of a person who died very slowly, and whose corpse was then washed and wrapped in a linen sheet for burial. Washing the body made the wounds sticky, so the cloth stuck fast and became impregnated with bacteria. Finally, says Mattingly, the bacteria died, shedding proteins that oxidised, causing a stain in the cloth that turned yellow and darkened.
https://www.theguardian.com/guardianweekly/story/0,12674,979921,00.html?fbclid=IwAR3EG-WALCnTnlXfgG7S4erWV6Gen13GgeBB7tdVW3nSLNFNfjQSl_N_GTM

Giulio Fanti, Saverio Gaeta, The mystery of the Shroud The surprising scientific discoveries on the enigma of the cloth of Jesus, page 49
A linen fabric from Masada, the radiocarbon date of this Masada sample, assessed at the confidence level of the 95%, was between 59 A.D. and 213 AD: since the Jewish fortress was conquered by the Roman army in 74 AD, fabric fabrication cannot be assumed after this date.

Just in reference to the finding of Masada, it is remarkable the fact that numerous parameters derived from the FT-IR and Raman analyzes were very close to those of the Shroud linen. Even if you can't stating a priori that the two linen fabrics have comparable dates, in any case, is significant that the chemical characteristics of the two fabrics are comparable to each other. The final datum of this spectroscopic analysis, with reference to the linear combination of the ratios considered, has provided for the Shroud sample a value of 300 BC ± 400 years at the 95% confidence level.
https://b-ok.cc/md5/F722F74F3953395133840D1411204303

The Shroud has the characteristics of a Jewish funeral cloth from the 1st century (corpses buried intact, with eyes and mouth closed); the linen fabric was produced in the Judaic environment: it does not bear traces of fibers of animal origin (the Mosaic law prescribed to keep separate the wool from the linen); among the geological particles found there are various minerals typical of Jerusalem.

The body image is not produced by organic or inorganic pigments, but is due to a chemical reaction of the linen polysaccharides and contains three-dimensional information. The body image affects a thickness of 0.2 thousandths of a millimeter and is so superficial as to be to think that it was formed following the release of a very intense energy in a very short time. All these features make the image still unexplainable by science, much less reproducible.



Last edited by Admin on Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

17Shroud of Turin Empty Re: Shroud of Turin on Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:37 pm

Otangelo


Admin
The Shroud of Turin: 2.6. The other marks (6): Writing
https://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-shroud-of-turin-26-other-marks-6.html?fbclid=IwAR1Pj6-lQ_4UNzCdIcWu_DguTL1KTCPSHRAPuZKRldhd75ebF2pagftDOOE#6

Shroud of Turin 925
Shroud of Turin 722
Shroud of Turin 824


http://www.sabanasanta.org/monedas.PDF
http://www.shroudresearch.net/hproxy.php/abstracts.html

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin
How can you explain the existence of other revered shrouds aside from the one in Turin?

They are, basically, self-confessed copies of the true Shroud. The House of Savoy used to send them as gifts to churches and monasteries, in the same way as we send postcards or photographs today. Often, they even wrote on these copies extractum ab originali, that is, ‘taken from the original’. They are all hand-painted, and very rough copies, showing how difficult it is to paint something which really looks like the Shroud.

Shroud of Turin Fake_s10

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin
Barrie Schwortz was a member of the Shroud of Turin Research Project (often abbreviated as STURP) a team of scientists which performed a set of experiments and analyses on the Shroud of Turin during the late 1970s and early 1980s. STURP issued its final report in 1981.

After 18 years as a skeptic, in 1995, when confronted with the evidence that the blood on the shroud was of a tortured man, he became convinced of the authenticity of the Shroud, and became a Christian.

The Shroud and the jew: Barrie Schwortz at TEDx ViadellaConciliazione
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G4sj8hUVaY

"At the beginning of my work, I was very skeptical about its authenticity. I felt no particular emotion toward Jesus because I was raised as an orthodox jew. The only thing I knew about Jesus was that he was a jew, and this was all. ".
After 18 years of study, the full conviction came when "the Blood Chemistry Allen Adler, another jew who was part of the study group, I explained why the red blood remained on the Shroud. The old blood would have to be black or brown, while the blood on the Shroud is a red-crimson. It seemed inexplicable, instead it was the last piece of the puzzle. After nearly 20 years of investigation, it was a shock for me to discover that the piece of cloth was the authentic cloth that had been wrapped the body of Jesus. The conclusions I arrived were based exclusively on scientific observation ".
He has no doubt Schwortz: "Once we came to the scientific conclusion that the cloth was authentic, I have come to understand also the meaning. This is the forensic document of the Passion, and for Christians around the world is the most important relic, precisely because it documents everything you read in the Gospels of what was done to Jesus. I think there are enough evidence to prove that this is the cloth that wrapped the body of Jesus ". The truth about Jesus is the task of faith, he states that "from the point of view of science that cloth wrapped the body of man spoken of in the Gospels".
The study of the Shroud has not only convinced of the authenticity, but it has also changed, evidently, also on a personal level.
"At the beginning of the investigation - said Schwortz -, I knew of God, but it was not very important in my life. I had not thought of God, when the avevo 13 years. I was not very religious, it was almost a requirement for my family. Since then I have moved away from the faith, religion and God, until I reached the 50 years. When in 1995 I came to the conclusion that the Shroud was authentic, I built the site www.shroud.com . I started to collect the material and put it to the public. I began to speak publicly about the Shroud around 1996 ".
This dualism, however, could not continue: "When people started asking me if I was a believer, I could not find the answer. At that point I questioned myself and I realized that God was waiting for me. I was really surprised to see that within me there was a belief in God. Fino a 50 years I had pretty much ignored the faith, and suddenly I found myself face to face with God in my heart. Basically I can say that the Shroud was the catalyst that brought me back to God ". He concluded amused: "How many Jews can say that the Shroud of Turin has led them to faith in God"?

Schwortz runs as well the website:
https://www.shroud.com/

The STURP Team
https://www.upra.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Lecture_1.pdf



Last edited by Admin on Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:04 am; edited 2 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin
Murder at Golgotha: Revisiting the Most Famous Crime Scene in History

http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=AAEB124AA3618D3645D9A4DC512EC08D

Shroud of Turin 1521

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

21Shroud of Turin Empty Seamless robe of Jesus on Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:32 am

Otangelo


Admin
Seamless robe of Jesus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seamless_robe_of_Jesus?fbclid=IwAR2On8MP26m_IypW8cezqKZzI4JZlMwyCC2UBuTBdDPbY0yEZXLpWDYv_zw

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin
Is the Body Image Formed by Pigment Substances?

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t1688-shroud-of-turin#7165

The Shroud of Turin FIRST CENTURY AFTER CHRIST! , Giulio Fanti, page 324
The analysis performed by the first author on dusts vacuumed from the Shroud identifies some pigments on the linen fabric, but these are relatively rare and therefore inadequate to explain any coloration producing the body image as a result. Parallel analyses on image fibers, again conducted by the first author, definitely confirm on the other hand the absence of pigment or of any other intake substance on the image fibers, in harmony with the results obtained by the Shroud of Turin Research Project (STURP) in their 1978 direct examination of the body image.

The image is in fact the product of chemical reactions (oxidation, dehydration, and conjugation) of fibers on the image’s surface. Among the pigments present in the vacuumed dusts, the first author found particles of lapis lazuli (a blue-colored precious hard stone) mixed with iron oxide particles (which are red), leading them to suspect external contamination had occurred in the course of the centuries. It is a known fact that in the past centuries artists
avowedly made copies of the Shroud, touching the sacred Linen with their paintings, in order to confer to them qualities of the highest order, but physically contaminating the Shroud in the process.

The minimal evidence of pigments found among the vacuumed particles of the Shroud is not even sufficient for reproducing a hundredth part of the whole image. Probably these traces derive from later contaminations, when artists were allowed to physically touch the Shroud with their paintings in order to create another relic. In support to this hypothesis is the fact that in the vacuumed particles have been found red particles (iron oxide) and particles of other colors (e.g., blue lapis lazuli).

Let us think of a hypothetical artist who tries to reproduce these characteristics on a linen cloth using a simple painting technique: difficulties seem insuperable. First of all, the artist should dip the brush, not in the color, because there are not pigments on the threads, but in an acid capable of shading the linen chemically. However, the artist has to see what he or she is painting, so the acid (usually transparent) should be pre-emptively colored, though, at work completed, he or she should eliminate any evidence of pigment, because on the Shroud there is no colorant. Since colored fibers are side by side uncolored ones, the brush must have only one bristle with a diameter not superior to 0.01 mm (0.00039 in.). Inexplicably, the artist also has to be able to color the part of the straw in the inner side of the bundle without coloring the adjacent straws, since the color is uniformly distributed around the circumference.

Is it a painting ?
If this were true, it should be possible to identify the pigments used by chemical analysis, just as conservators can do for the paintings of Old Masters. But the Sturp team found no evidence of any pigments or dyes on the cloth in sufficient amounts to explain the image. Nor are there any signs of it being rendered in brush strokes. In fact the image on the linen is barely visible to the naked eye, and wasn't identified at all until 1898, when it became apparent in the negative image of a photograph taken by Secondo Pia, an amateur Italian photographer. The faint coloration of the flax fibres isn't caused by any darker substance being laid on top or infused into them - it's the very material of the fibres themselves that has darkened. And in contrast to most dyeing or painting methods, the colouring cannot be dissolved, bleached or altered by most standard chemical agents. The Sturp group asserted that the image is the real form of a "scourged, crucified man… not the product of an artist". There are genuine bloodstains on the cloth, and we even know the blood group (AB, if you're interested). There are traces of human DNA too, although it is badly degraded.

That didn't prevent the American independent chemical and microscopy consultant, Walter McCrone, who collaborated with the Sturp team, from asserting that the red stains attributed to blood were in fact very tiny particles of the red pigment iron oxide, or red ochre. Like just about every other aspect of the shroud, McCrone's evidence is disputed; few now credit it. Another idea is that the image is a kind of rubbing made from a bas-relief statue, or perhaps imprinted by singeing the fabric while it lay on top of such a bas-relief - but the physical and chemical features of the image don't support this.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33164668

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

23Shroud of Turin Empty Re: Shroud of Turin on Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:25 am

Otangelo


Admin
The author contends that God left scientific proof of His existence 2,000 years ago in the image left on the Shroud, an image that could not have been faked and cannot be duplicated by modern science. This image could help all the people in the world answer life's greatest questions, Why are we here? What is the purpose of life? Where are we going?

BODY IMAGE FEATURES
The Shroud of Turin is a burial cloth over 14 feet long and over 3.5 feet wide. During the time of Christ, a deceased Jew was laid lengthwise on the cloth which was then folded over his head to cover the front of his body. A faint image appears for the man's full-length frontal and dorsal body images. But the image became most recognizable on May 28, 1898, when Secondo Pia first photographed it and recognized sharply defined images of a tortured and crucified man in the photographic negatives.

The body image is 3-dimentional. Features that lie closest to the cloth -- nose, forehead, cheeks, hands -- are the most intense, while areas of the body that are farther away leave a lighter impression.
The image is directionless; that is, there are no underlying brush strokes that go up, down, or side to side. This refutes the 1389 claim by Bishop Pierre d'Arcis of Troyes that the Shroud was a painted forgery by an unnamed artist. Regardless of whether the cloth was sloping downward, upward, or lying flat, only the parts of the frontal body image that were facing the cloth were encoded in a vertical, straight-line direction to their underlying points on the body. Since the crown of the man's head and the left and right sides of the body do not face the cloth, they did not become encoded.

A linen thread is composed of about 200 flaxen fibers. The image lies only on the topmost 2 or 3 fibers. These fibers are straw-yellow in color, yet the color does not penetrate into the threads. Remarkably, the coloring is found 360° around each colored fiber. When a fiber is cut, it is white on the inside. Also, where one fiber crosses another fiber, it is white on the underlying fiber. If one part of the image is darker than another, it is not because its fibers are encoded more intensely, rather it's because a greater number of colored fibers exist in that area.

The image does not consist of any pigments, dyes, or materials of any kind. It consists of oxidized, dehydrated cellulose. This is a natural material found in all plants and fibers and is the raw material from which linen is made. As it ages, linen naturally yellows from oxidizing and dehydrating. It will darken more over time if exposed to sunlight and radiation. Even though the entire Shroud has darkened, something caused its image to darken even more.

Linen consists of carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen atoms that are single-bonded together. Something happened to the encoded body image fibers that caused many of its single-bonded atoms to break apart, allowing its carbon and oxygen atoms to then double-bond with each other, forming the straw-yellow image. One possible cause is particle radiation.

Scourge Marks
One hundred or more dumbbell-shaped impressions were left on the man (O—O) with slightly indented centers and upraised edges. These correspond to the Roman flagrum, a whip used for flagellation. Each leather thong had lead weights tied at the end. A "halo" of lighter color surrounds these marks. Ultraviolet light confirms this as blood serum. This is a process called syneresis. When skin is abraded, the emerging blood remains for only a few minutes before it begins to coagulate. As it does so, red blood cells and serum separate. The red cells form a clot, which then retracts in the wound. As the clot shrinks, the serum is squeezed out and settles around the edge of the wound. Since none of these features are visible to the naked eye, they could not have been created by an artist in the Middle Ages.

Facial and Head Wounds
The man on the Shroud has a mustache, beard and hair falling to his shoulders in a central part. His cheeks are swollen, and below his right cheek is a triangular-shaped wound. His nose is bruised and swollen, and the cartilage may be separated from the bone. The nose is scratched and dirty. The areas around the eyes are swollen. His face appears to have been beaten with a hard object such as a fist or stick) and injured in a fall. There are more than 30 head wounds produced by a cap made of sharp, pointed objects.

Hand and Arm Wounds
The man's left wrist has been pierced, and blood flows from the wrist to the elbow, in two parallel streams, one at 65° and the other at 55°. The same streams are on the right arm. This evidence confirms crucifixion. When a crucified victim hung on a cross, he could not take in air unless he pushed himself up with his feet to raise his shoulders and expand his rib cage. This movement alters the horizontal axis of the arms by 10°, thus producing two streams of blood on his arms. Sometimes to hurry death, the Roman executioners would break the legs of the crucified to stop them from breathing. Although many people believe Jesus' nail holes were in his hands, the Greek word used in the Gospels is cheir, which also means "wrist and forearm." Dr. Pierre Barbet said that a nail driven into the Space of Destot in the wrist would push aside four small bones without breaking them. Driving the nail here also spontaneously contracts the thumb inward to lie across the palm, which is why the thumbs are not visible on the Shroud.

Shoulder Injuries
Two broad excoriated areas occur across the man's shoulder blades. This is consistent with carrying a heavy crossbeam (80 to 100 lbs.). Falling under this weight caused scratches, lesions, and abrasions on the front of the man's knees. Patches of dirt are on the knees, nose, and bottoms of the feet. The man's right shoulder appears dislocated, another source of intense pain.

Leg and Foot Wounds
A large amount of blood resulted from a piercing wound to the foot. Pathologist Robert Bucklin identified the source of this flow as "a square image surrounded by a pale hole" in the metatarsal zone. From this wound, some blood runs vertically toward the toes, but most flows toward the heels and horizontally onto the cloth. This means the man bled in different positions -- vertically while on the cross and horizontally while being carried after he was dead. Why did most of this blood flow occur after the man had died? While the man was crucified in the vertical position, blood accumulated in the front and lower part of the foot. This blood flowed out after the nail was removed and the body was laid flat. The man's right foot was placed directly against a flat surface while his left leg is bent at the knee and his left foot rotated to rest on top of the right foot. A single nail driven between the metatarsal bones could affix both feet in a stationary position. In keeping with the Biblical prophecy that none of the Messiah's bones would be broken, like the Passover lamb (Exodus 12:46 and Psalm 34:20), Jesus' legs were not broken (John 19:36).

Chest Wound
On the right side of the man's chest is a large wound. Blood and watery fluid flowed out due to gravity, not a pumping heart. Most experts agree that the watery fluid came from the pleural cavity and from the pericardial sac surrounding the heart, while the blood came from the heart. The elliptical-shaped wound is about 4.4 cm long and 1.1 cm wide. This matches the shape and size of the Roman leaf-shaped lancea used by foot soldiers. All the blood on the Shroud is whole blood with blood serum, of blood type AB, and of a human male because of the presence of human DNA with both X and Y chromosomes.

Uniqueness of the Image
If a corpse could naturally leave body images or blood stains with clearly marked edges like those on the Shroud, it should have happened on other burial garments, blankets, shirts, trousers, soldiers' uniforms, bandages or other wrappings for the billions of people who have died. But it has not. All naturalistic methods to duplicate these stains have failed. The Shroud contains no traces of myrrh or aloes, perspiration, urea, or bodily fluids (other than blood). How were the sharply defined blood stains that were not in contact with the cloth transferred to it, and in the same way they appeared on the body? And how is it that these blood stains are so embedded in the cloth that they can be seen on the outer side of the cloth, the side not touching the body? Some extraordinary event occurred to this dead body that caused its blood marks and its full-length negative images to appear on the cloth. This had to occur within 2 to 3 days of the body being wrapped in the cloth, as there are no signs of decomposition, which takes place 2 to 3 days after death.


ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE
The Linen Shroud
The Shroud was woven in a three-to-one herringbone twill pattern and spun with a Z twist. Similar weaves have been discovered well before the time of Christ. Traces of cotton fibers were found of the Gossypium herbaceum variety, distinctive to the Middle East. No traces of wool were found, in keeping with Jewish law, "Neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee." (Leviticus 19:19).

A Roman Coin
It is possible that a Roman coin was placed over the man's right eye. Some features can be seen of a Pontius Pilate lepton minted between 29 and 32 AD. The Greek letters UCAI (part of the inscription for Tiberius Caesar) may be seen, along with a staff or lituus, and a clipped coin margin. Coins were used at Jewish burials only between the 1st century BC through the 1st Century AD.


Limestone and Pollen
A limestone sample from the foot region of the man in the Shroud was compared to a sample from the Ecole Biblique, the same rock shelf as the Holy Sepulcher and the Garden Tomb in Jerusalem. Both consisted of calcium carbonate in the form of travertine aragonite and were an unusually close match.
Dr. Max Frei, an expert in Mediterranean flora, identified 58 pollen grains on the Shroud, of which 42 grow in Jerusalem, where the cloth must have originated. Dr. Alan Whanger identified 28 species of flowers represented by flower images on the Shroud. All 28 species are found in Jerusalem. They all bloom in March and April (Easter) and would have been available at marketplaces or in fields. The flower images on the Shroud were from wilted flowers that were 24 to 36 hours old.


The Unwashed Body
Normally, Jewish custom requires a deceased body to be washed and anointed with oil. However, in the case of blood, it was to be buried with the body, since the "life of the flesh is in the blood." (Leviticus 17:11). Therefore, the body would not be washed, as is the case with the man in the Shroud. Also, with the Sabbath quickly approaching, the burial had to be completed before sundown.

A UNIQUE FORM OF RADIATION
The body image is due to a more advanced decomposition than the normal aging rate of the background itself. Only the application of radiation (light or heat) to cellulose will artificially darken it, as if it had rapidly aged. This radiation occurred at a low temperature since there are no by-products (pyrolytic compounds) from high-temperature degradation. In 1989, physicist Thomas Phillips first proposed that particle radiation had irradiated the Shroud. This source of radiation came from the man's body itself. Only proton radiation would explain all 32 of the Shroud's body image features.
1. lack of fading
2. lack of foreign materials or particulates
3. straw-yellow coloration
4. only the topmost superficial fibers of threads encoded
5. individual fibers encoded
6. fibers colored 360° around circumference
7. only outer layers of individually encoded fibers are colored
8. no coloration inside of fiber
9. fibers colored with similar intensity
10. oxidation and dehydration of body images
11. containing conjugated carbonyls (double-bonded carbon and oxygen atoms formed after single-bonded atoms within linen fibers broke apart) that
12. developed over time
13. accelerated aging of the body image
14. stability to water and heating
15. insolubility to acids, reductants and solvents
16. gross mechanical properties of linen intact
17. microscopically corroded appearance of fibers
18. lower tensile strength of fibers
19. reduction of the cloth's fluorescence at body images
20. lack of residue
21. highly attenuating or absorbing agent
22. agent operated over skin, hair, bones (teeth, coins, and flowers)
23. non-diffuse image with sharp boundaries
24. equal intensity for frontal and dorsal images
25. lack of two-dimensional directionality (latitude and longitude)
26. negative images with left/right and light/dark reversals that develop into
27. highly resolved, photographic quality images
28. without any magnification
29. with skeletal (and dental) features
30. three-dimensionality
31. encoded through the spaces between the body and the cloth
32. in a straight-line vertical direction

The author says, "Based on the available evidence, you don't have to be a scientist to wonder whether a supernatural radiating event occurred to the dead crucified man in the Shroud that caused his body images to develop over time on this burial cloth. You don't have to be a theologian to realize that all of the unfakable features and events encoded into this burial shroud are similar to the very same events and circumstances that are recorded to have occurred to the historical Jesus Christ." (p. 108)

How Neutron Radiation Creates New Radioactive CL-36 and CA-41 Atoms in Linen and Blood
Calcium (Ca-40) exists naturally in blood and limestone. Chlorine (Cl-35) occurs naturally in blood. If neutrons were released by the man's body, they would have ricocheted throughout the tomb. Each time the neutrons collided with atoms in the rock, cloth, blood, or other matter, they would have lost energy and speed. Occasionally, some nuclei within the cloth reacted by "capturing" an individual neutron, where it then joined other protons and neutrons within the nucleus. A new distinct atom was created that is so rare, it virtually does not exist in nature. Thus, some Ca-40 atoms become Ca-41 atoms, and some Cl-35 atoms become Cl-36 atoms. Since the half-lives of Cl-36 and Ca-41 are 301,000 and 102,000 years, respectively, almost all of the Cl-36 and Ca-41 atoms that were created 2,000 years ago throughout this burial cloth would still be present today.

Scientists have demonstrated that if a known number of neutrons irradiate material containing known amounts of chlorine or calcium, then known numbers of new Cl-36 and Ca-41 will be produced within the irradiated material. Both the presence of the newly created Cl-36 and Ca-41 atoms and their specific amounts can be determined by measuring the Cl-36 to Cl-35 and Ca-41 to Ca-40 ratios of the neutron irradiated material. An accelerator mass spectrometer (AMS) would be used to measure these ratios.

How Neutron Radiation Creates New C-14 Atoms in Linen and Blood
If the Shroud was irradiated by neutrons, additional Carbon 14 (C-14) atoms would have been created throughout the cloth. C-14 atoms are created from the common nitrogen atom called N-14. The N-14 atom has 7 protons and 7 neutrons and does not decay. After a neutron collides with and enters the N-14 nucleus, it causes instability within the nucleus, ejecting a proton. The resulting nucleus is a C-14 nucleus containing 6 protons and 8 neutrons. The newly created C-14 atoms remain within the molecular structure of the Shroud including the image and the blood marks. Knowing that the half-life of C-14 atoms is 5,370 years allows scientists to determine the age of an object by counting its remaining C-14 atoms. But if an event caused the Shroud to be irradiated with neutrons, this would make it appear much YOUNGER than its actual age because it would contain MORE C-14 atoms than the linen originally had. This would account for the 1988 erroneous Carbon 14 dating which concluded that the Shroud dated from 1260 to 1390 AD. If the world erroneously dismisses the Shroud as a fake, and yet cannot reproduce its image or blood marks, then it can be dismissing the most important artifact in human history, an artifact which proves the resurrection of Jesus Christ and Him being the Son of God.

Why the Blood Marks Are Red and Not Brown
The blood on the Shroud still retains a reddish coloration. The blood should have long ago turned dark brown or black. Dr. Carlo Goldini concluded from his experiments that when blood marks are first exposed to neutron radiation and then to ultraviolet light (sunlight), the blood marks display a bright red coloration. It is bright red regardless of the blood's bilirubin content, which has been the traditional explanation for the Shroud's centuries-old red coloration.

THE HISTORY OF THE SHROUD
1201 -- The Shroud is mentioned by Nicholas Mesarites, a Greek overseer of the emperor's relics in the Pharos Chapel of the Boucoleon Palace in Constantinople. "In this chapel Christ rises again, and the sindon [Shroud] with the burial linens is the clear proof because it wrapped the mysterious, naked dead body after the Passion."
1203-1204 -- Soldiers of the 4th Crusade attack Constantinople for payment for having deposed Alexius III, who had usurped the Byzantine throne, and reinstating his nephew, Alexius IV. Most of the capital's priceless relics disappeared, including the Shroud. Robert de Clari wrote, "There was another of the churches which they call Lady St. Mary of Blachernae, where there was kept the Shroud [sydoines] in which Our Lord had been wrapped."
1204 - 1350s -- Unknown whereabouts of Shroud.
1204 -- Coincidental disappearance of a cloth called the Mandylion (also called the Image of Edessa), said to bear the divine and miraculous imprint of the face of Jesus, made without any painter's pigments. It was labeled acheiropoietos, or "not made by hand." It arrived in Constantinople in 944 from Edessa where it had been since at least the 6th century. Some contend it was brought there in the 1st century by the disciple Thaddaeus ("one of the seventy" in Luke 10:1) or a messenger of Edessa's King Abgar V.
mid-1350s -- Shroud first public appearance in Europe in Lirey, France by Geoffrey de Charny.
1389 -- Shroud publicly displayed by Geoffrey de Charny's widow. He died a hero at the Battle of Poiteirs in 1356.
1532 -- Shroud incurs fire and water damage in Chambery, France when church catches on fire.
1578 -- The Shroud arrives in Turin, Italy.

The Impact of the Mandylion (Shroud of Turin?) on How the Face of Christ is Depicted in Art
Although the New Testament does not describe Christ's physical appearance, during the first 5 centuries A.D., Christ was usually portrayed as a young man, clean-shaven with short hair. But after the reappearance of the Mandylion in the 6th century, Christ is portrayed as having long hair, parted in the middle and falling to His shoulders. He has a thin mustache that droops to join a forked beard. His face is longer and more refined with a nose that is longer and more pronounced. His eyes are more deeply set and His whole countenance is set in a rigidly front-facing attitude. Some anomalies begin to occur: a transverse streak across the forehead, a three-sided square between the eyebrows, a V-shape at the bridge of the nose, a second V-shape inside the three-sided square, an accentuated line between the nose and the upper lip, a heavy line under the lower lip, a hairless area between the lower lip and beard, a traverse line across the throat, a raised right eyebrow, accentuated left and right cheeks, an enlarged left nostril, heavily accentuated owlish eyes, and two loose strands of hair falling from the apex of the forehead. Since all these features are visible on the Shroud of Turin, a strong argument is made for declaring the Shroud and the Mandylion to be one and the same. This premise is called the "iconographic theory" and was first developed by Paul Vignon. The artists modeled the somewhat vague and indefinite faint image on the cloth, as the photographic negative was not available for centuries, so they composed the best and most accurate representations they could. Dr. Alan D. Whanger of Duke University developed the "polarized image overlay technique" where 6th-century images of Christ in paintings and on Byzantine coins are superimposed over the Shroud image. He counted from 33 to 100 points of congruence.

The History of the Mandylion
In 1204, the Mandylion disappeared from Constantinople that same time as the Shroud. In 1978, Ian Wilson first asserted that the Shroud of Turin was actually the Mandylion that had been double-folded twice, so only the head region was visible. It measured 3'7". John Skylitzes, a Greek historian of the late 11th century, depicted the arrival of the Mandylion to Constantinople in 944. He shows the face of Jesus on a much larger cloth that has been folded. The Mandylion had traveled from Jerusalem to eastern Anatolia (Edessa) to Constantinople, the exact route of the Shroud. In the 6th century, Evagrius in his Ecclesiastical History referred to the Mandylion as acheiropoietos, or "not made by hands."

Why do the Gospels not mention an image on Jesus' burial cloth? Because the image we see today would have taken time to develop. There is no mention in history of an image until the 6th century. The body image was made by an event which caused the cellulose to age over time.

THE HISTORICALLY CONSISTENT HYPOTHESIS
This hypothesis says that only particle radiation consisting of protons and neutrons emanating from a disappearing body can account for all the Shroud's body image features. If the body suddenly disappeared while leaving behind a very small amount of the basic particles of matter, the cloth would have collapsed into the radiating body region. The parts of the cloth closest to the body (tip of the nose and lips) would have received the greatest amount of radiation as they would have fallen the furthest distance when collapsing. Other parts of the cloth received less radiation as they fell a lesser distance. Thus, a precise, 3-dimensional body image would have been encoded, with every degree of brightness/darkness at every point on the cloth being directly correlated with the original distances that the cloth was draped from the body. When the body suddenly disappeared, a brief vacuum would have been created, drawing the dorsal cloth up into the radiant body region and encoding the body image and blood marks on the dorsal side. The body of the man only had to give off less than one millionth of one-percent (0.000000015%) of the protons and neutrons in his body to have encoded his image on the Shroud, leaving dried blood marks that are bright red and not brown.

WHAT DID THE APOSTLE JOHN SEE THAT MADE HIM BELIEVE THAT JESUS HAD RISEN FROM THE DEAD?
After the resurrection, when John and Peter ran to the tomb (John 20:3-5). John says that after he went inside, "He saw and believed" (John 20:Cool. What did John see that made him believe that Jesus had risen from the dead? He saw that the linen wrappings had not been disturbed, just collapsed. No one had moved the linen wrappings to steal or move the body. John concluded that since no one had touched the wrappings, Jesus' body had simply disappeared from the shroud. He had gone right through the grave clothes.

WHY THE AUTHOR WANTS THE SHROUD TO BE STUDIED AT THE MOLECULAR LEVEL
There are currently over 7.3 billion people in the world. They have a right to know if there is unfakable, scientific, medical and archeological evidence that particle radiation emanated from the dead body of Jesus Christ as it disappeared -- and that this event occurred after he had been beaten, scourged, crowned with thorns, carried a heavy rough object across his shoulders, was crucified, killed, and buried. The ultimate goal of science is truth. If scientific testing confirms that a miraculous event happened to the dead body of Jesus Christ, it would clearly indicate there is a God, that He intentionally intervened in history, that Jesus Christ was the recipient of power, and that God and Jesus Christ are the source of ultimate power or truth. The same historical sources, whose critical events were prophesized centuries before they occurred, tell us that Jesus came to save all of humanity. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him." (John 3:16-17)

https://www.amazon.com/Test-Shroud-Atomic-Molecular-Levels/dp/0996430016

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin
Did Jesus brake the law of the OT by wearing long hair ?

Without a proper understanding of what the rules were regarding hair, you will inevitably come to the wrong conclusion concerning the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin.   In 1 Corinthians 11:14, the Apostle Paul declares that long hair is a disgrace to men, yet the man of the Shroud apparently has shoulder-length hair.  What constitutes "long hair" depends on one's own culture's subjective view; Paul himself would probably have had shoulder-length hair, as that was the norm for Jewish men of his day; and what Paul was speaking about is "men who wore their hair in styles peculiar to women"   Our concept of what Paul meant by `long hair' is usually affected by our own views of what constitutes long hair. While Paul was speaking of effeminate men who wore their hair in styles peculiar to women, Paul himself would probably have worn shoulder-length hair in keeping with the hairstyle of the other orthodox Jews of his day.  As a matter of fact, the traditional style for an orthodox Jewish man of two thousand years ago is much the same for him today: a ponytail of hair and sidelocks-precisely what we see on the Shroud."  1 Corinthians points out that, based on the original Greek, what Paul was talking about was not "hair as such" but "hairdo":

"[1 Cor] 14-15 ... Vs. 4 reads: having his head covered, lit. from the head; vs. 6 distinguishes between a not covering of the head and a cutting short of the hair, apparently assuming that even if the head is not covered the hair may still be long. The solution of this question must be sought in the two different words for hair which the Greek uses. [triches and kome] The first one means hair as such; the second, which is used here, means the hairdo, hair that is neatly held by means of ribbon or lace. That also fits the context which shows that the Corinthian women did not cut their hair short (vs. 6), but that they took it down in ecstasy."  This is confirmed by the Interlinear Greek-English New Testament, which shows that the words translated "a man wears long hair" (lit. "he wears his hair long") is one Greek word κομη (kome) (Marshall, A., 1966, "The Interlinear Greek-English New Testament," p.686).

This can be seen in the online Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament of 1 Corinthians 11:14, where "has long hair" is based on one Greek word "komaō," the Greek root of kome.

Another commentary points out that what Paul was really concerned about was not the lengths of men's and women's hair, but "that man is to be distinguished from woman."  The final point in the passage is that man is to be distinguished from woman. Thus the Corinthians are to see that the woman should not pray with her head uncovered as the man does. They are reminded that in ordinary life man with his short hair is distinguished from woman with her long hair. If a man has long hair like a woman's, he is disgraced, but with long hair the woman gains glory in her position of subjection to man. Also long hair is actually given to her as a natural veil." (Mare, W.H., "1 Corinthians," in Gaebelein, F.E., ed., 1978, "The Expositor's Bible Commentary: Volume 10 - Romans - Galatians," p.256).

"Paul's point is that men should look like men in that culture, and women should look like women in that culture":

"[1Cor] 11:14 Here the word nature probably means "your natural sense of what is appropriate for men and women": it would be a disgrace for a man to look like a woman because of his hair style. Although the norms of appropriate hair style (and dress) may vary from culture to culture, Paul's point is that men should look like men in that culture, and women should look like women in that culture, rather than seeking to deny or disparage the God-given differences between the sexes." (Barker, K., et al., eds., 1985, "The NIV Study Bible," p.2207. Italics original).
The real problem is an example of the old church member's supposed rebuke to the young minister who was proposing their church switch to a modern Bible translation:
"Young man, if the King James Version was good enough for St. Paul, then it is good enough for me!"
But in fact the same applies even to modern English translations, in that they weren't what St. Paul wrote in either. If an argument is to be made, that flies in face of a lot of other evidence (in this case that the Shroud is authentic and the image on it is in fact of Jesus), on the basis of only two words "long hair" in an English translation, then a Christian runs the risk of unwittingly "fighting against God" (Acts 5:39. NIV) by failing to check what the original Greek behind those two English translation words meant to the original writer (St. Paul) and his readers (the largely Greek members of the first century church at Corinth).

Among the edited out parts of your email you implied that this person you know is highly intelligent and university educated. Such a person would presumably be appalled if one of his colleagues adopted a superficial, `near enough is good enough,' approach in their profession. You might put this to him and ask why then does he adopt this same approach in the things of God?

Finally, there are other Biblical passages which show that long hair, per se, was not a problem to God.
Indeed, in Numbers 6:1-5 God Himself instructed Moses that, if "a man or a woman makes a ... vow of a Nazirite," then amongst other things, "no razor shall touch his [or her] head" for the duration of the vow:

"6 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When either a man or a woman makes a special vow, the vow of a Nazirite, to separate himself to the Lord, 3 he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried. 4 All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, not even the seeds or the skins. 5 `All the days of his vow of separation, no razor shall touch his head. Until the time is completed for which he separates himself to the Lord, he shall be holy. He shall let the locks of hair of his head grow long.'"
Indeed, in 2 Samuel 14:25-26, King David's son Absalom was praised for his very long hair:

"Now in all Israel there was no one so much to be praised for his handsome appearance as Absalom. From the sole of his foot to the crown of his head there was no blemish in him. 26 And when he cut the hair of his head (for at the end of every year he used to cut it; when it was heavy on him, he cut it), he weighed the hair of his head, two hundred shekels by the king's weight."
And Paul himself in Acts 18:18 had made a vow to "cut his hair," which would make little sense unless it was normally long:

"After this, Paul stayed many days longer and then took leave of the brothers and set sail for Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila. At Cenchreae he had cut his hair, for he was under a vow."
Of course many (if not most) in our post-Christian Western society may disagree that "man is to be distinguished from woman" by such things as hair-style. But that is not the point, which is, "does the fact that the Man on the Shroud has long hair contradict 1 Corinthians 11:14 and/or the Bible generally?" And the answer is "No, it clearly does not."  Given all of these facts, Jesus could have long hair as seen on the shroud and still not violate the Law of Moses.  

With all that said, you are correct, Jesus did not violate the law, even while still having long hair as I've just shown.  As you can now plainly see, I used pure Bible to validate it.  On top of all of that, you still haven't answered the fact that the titulus of the cross that was burned onto the fabric of the shroud during the resurrection identifies him as Jesus.  As you can now see, you "speak contrary to the Bible and everyone can see it."  Looks like you have to eat your own words.

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

25Shroud of Turin Empty Re: Shroud of Turin on Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:56 pm

Otangelo


Admin
Is the Shroud of Turin the burial cloth of Jesus? With Barrie Schwortz, member of the STURP team, Friday, 22/08 9 PM ( GMT -3 )

The shroud of Turin EXTRAORDINARY evidence of Christ's resurrection https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHHmiFbsxbw

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t1688-shroud-of-turin

One common claim of atheists is that 'there is NO evidence of the historical Jesus'' Because ALL the Bible and ancient writings of Jesus could be written by anyone and were written by so many people, years after the events, which could easily be made up.

The Gospels of Matthew,[27:59–60] Mark,[15:46] and Luke[23:53] state that Joseph of Arimathea wrapped the body of Jesus in a piece of linen cloth and placed it in a new tomb. The Gospel of John[19:38–40] refers to strips of linen used by Joseph of Arimathea and states that Apostle Peter found multiple pieces of burial cloth after the tomb was found open, strips of linen cloth for the body and a separate cloth for the head.[20:6–7]

The shroud provides to the lost world the forensic facts and evidence of the horror of Jesus going to the cross. The Shroud bears the ultimate triumph of the Resurrection of Jesus (Yeshua) meaning Salvation. All this is recorded supernaturally on The Shroud of Turin, which proves the Holy Bible to be forensically accurate and perfectly reliable in every possible way.

By virtue of their substance and form, physical objects require no faith whatsoever. They can be observed, examined, touched, and even smelled. -- This is the very opposite of "faith." Thomas was not commended or blessed because he had "seen" Jesus after the resurrection, but those who believe WITHOUT SEEING ARE! (John 20:29)

The Shroud and the jew: Barrie Schwortz at TEDx ViadellaConciliazione
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G4sj8hUVaY

The Shroud of Turin is NOT A FORGERY FROM THE 14th century, as following amazing evidence will demonstrate. It is a length of linen cloth bearing the negative image of a man, which based on overwhelming evidence points to be Jesus of Nazareth and the fabric is the burial shroud in which he was wrapped after the crucifixion.







Shroud of Turin still surrounded with mystery and passion
Julia Buckley, CNN • Updated 13th April 2020
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/shroud-of-turin-mystery-italy/index.html



Last edited by Admin on Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Sponsored content


Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 2]

Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum