Burden of Proof : Are Theists the Only People Who Have it?Whoever makes the claim has the burden to prove that claim. Where is your proof?
Atheists demand constantly for evidence of Gods existence, but never apply the same burden of proof to materialism.This assumes the athiest is defending materialisem. I am not. I do not say that all there is is materal. I also am not saying all there is is the natural world. I make no such claims. My only claim is that there is not evidence for "God" - there is no emperical evidence nor repeatable test(s) that I am aware of, there has been plenty of (bad) arguments I've seen and read that do not logically conclude with god. Therefor, I have zero reason to accept "god" this does not mean I must defend "the otherside" Nope. I don't.
I offer zero explation for this world/universe/how we got here etc. I claim nothing other then as far as I can tell, reality is real (lobsters exist) that's it. Why/how lobsters? No idea. I'll side with whatever science says on the matter to be sure, but I'm not saying they got it right, only that I trust the method as it has emperical evidence/repeatable tests.
You assume, incorrectly that atheisem is "about" something - no it is not, it is a decription of an answer to the question "Does god exist" if one says "no" or "I do not beleve in god" then one is an atheist. Full stop.
Its not about being a materlist.
Its not about being a naturalist.
This has been explained several times by many people, and I'm sure you know this by now. Why in the world do you make the same error?
I'm making no claims OTHER then you have not provided to fill YOUR CLAIM. That's it.
The position of weak atheists is nothing more than a complaint about what other people believe in, referencing God.I suppose you can look at it that way. Is it valid to complain when someone beleves in something that is not supproted by evidnece and/or tests? I think it is.
I don't believe in UFOS, but I do not go around wearing a label pin or flag to identify as one who does not believe in UFOS.No one is stopping you from doing that if you wanted. Do people come to your door to talk to you about UFOs?
Do people go to a building every week and spend money at that building towards UFOs?
Do people vote for ideas based on the idea that UFO's exist?
Is UFO belief enough of a threat to you/your loved ones/socity to make it be something you would go after?
At some point if UFO belief became that, would you speak out against it?
Perhaps at some point if enough people think there are UFO'S you would do that right? (I would)
Maybe even you would find that labeling yourself as an anti-UFOist is helpful.
What if society was against non-beleif in UFO's and was scared of you since you did not beleve in UFO's?
Would you just let that be, or would you want to work towards getting people to accept that its OKAY for people to not beleve in UFOs?
So there is a problem in the logic of this issue. If you do not believe in God, big deal,If only it was so simple. But people say that not beleving has a huge conquence to it, also those that do beleve are making things hard for the rest of us.
but what is it that you proactively believe in.Reality.
what is your positive worldviewSee my topic
https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t3313-skeptic-reporting-in-dNo idea what my worldview even is, or if I have one.
influences your moral values,They are based loosely on the ethics of utilitarianism, with some Kant inspired idea of my duty being to the truth, although I do not take truth as far as Kant did.
your daily behavior, your motivations, your family life, your vote, in short: that regulates or laws your own personal life? A person ought to be identified by what they believe in Who says? Labels exist and are used as we want to, at whim. We can make them be or not be whatever we want.
not by what they do not believe in. So this is a shell game, a parlor trick. Not at all. Perhaps you could research the word atheist and find out when/where and how it came about.
WeWho is "we"?
totally understand why atheists avoid the burden of proof.What burden do you think atheists have?
We all know that atheists are the very definition of a "WIMP"Posioning the well, ad hominem.
We both KNOW that if the burden of proof was placed on their tiny narrow shoulders, they will IMMEDIATELY COLLAPSE!! Their worldview is irrational and patheticWhat burden of proof?
What worldview?
We don't mind to demonstrate why intelligence is an infinitely more adequate potent cause in comparison to - wait - what exactly ?!! There is NO ALTERNATIVE to an eternal necessary powerful Creator; Maybe rub that in the face will help to wake-up their brains and start thinking ?Are you talking to me or copy/pasting this from some webpage? This does not seem like it is dirrected at me. There is no proof of an eternal anything nor a creator. You want an answer for how things are - we know a lot from science, but there are mystery's yet to be understood, I'm okay with a mystery, are you?
The way to find truth about origins is to find out,No, that is a matter of science - the complex nature of it has to do with a number of factors - nothing of this has to do with atheisem.
either if there is a God, an intelligent creator, or not.False dichotomy. Perhaps God once existed, but exploded itself in order to make the unvierse, and is now dead.
These are the two possible explanations,I do not know what all the possible explanations are, but that isn't the point. We are not trying to explain anything here we are seeking proof for a claim about "god". You are super mega sidetracked here.
this is the framework to work with, and within these two options to find the best explanation.No.
That is not what I'm doing at all. I'm asking for emperical evidence/repetable tests. You are complaining about me asking for that.
You are shifting the topic to everything and anything else. You are blaming me/atheists. You are doing everything you can to avoid admiting that there is no emperical evidence or repeatable tests for god.
When weak atheists try to argue that they just do not believe in claims made by theists, until the burden of proof is met, they want to have an advantage right from the beginning.Whoever makes the claim has the burden of proof. The other person does not. That's how it works. Does not matter what it is about. You do not like how things work I suppose. Tough cookies.
At this point, one side has to sweat to make a case, while the other side has an easy play to be the judge, without the burden of proof to provide evidence why the "no-God hypothesis" is valid.You are again assuming they HAVE that hypothesis. I do not.
I am making no other claim then that you have not provided me with emperical evidence/repeatable tests for god. That's it.
I make zero claims about how/why/who/what we are here as humans/universe/etc. I'm giving no alternative for how we came to be, I plan on giving none. I have no idea. Its a mystery.
Again, I'm only asking for proof that this idea is true.
(proof = emperical evidence/repetable tests)
If nonbelievers in theism are going to argue that adequate answers exist without the need for God, they are at least going to have to provide sufficient naturalistic explanations.Depending on what you are asking for, humans have a lot figured out about how things got to where they are via the scientific method. I'm fine with anything and everything that science is able to say on the matter. The unknown/mystery is not something I will fill in with any answer as I do not know the answer. I'm okay with that.
It is worth noting that every single time humans have thought that `god did it` we turned out to be wrong. Lighting, for example, is said to have come from Zeus back in the day. Turns out, there is a natural explation for lighting. We do not need to posit Zeus to explain lighting anymore. In fact, we should never have posited Zeus in the first place, it was a made up story to fill in the void of knowledge we had.
Asking to provide positive, compelling evidence that points to the fact that the natural world can have an origin by its own,Look to science. (I cant post links for 7 days, this answer comes from Nasa webpage)
Gravity is the answer:
"When the solar system settled into its current layout about 4.5 billion years ago, Earth formed when gravity pulled swirling gas and dust in to become the third planet from the Sun. Like its fellow terrestrial planets, Earth has a central core, a rocky mantle, and a solid crust."is not the same as to ask for evidence that God does not exist.Correct. To show that something isn't - it must be falsifiable, what things would falsify "god"?
It is one of the most frequent logical fallacies seen in atheism/theism debates. That is called an affirmative conclusion from a negative premise. This illicit negative occurs when a categorical syllogism has a positive conclusion, but one or two negative premises. Both sides, however, must be able to present and adopt a well-articulated, thorough-going positive worldview based on positive evidence that results in good reasons to infer naturalism or creationism/Intelligent Design. What the debater must present, is a positive case for theism/atheism by reference to the evidence that favours a theistic/atheistic interpretation of reality.I really honestly do not care.
Lets focus on this simple thing.
I do not have emperical evidence &/or a repeatable test for "god".
Do you have any emperical evidence &/or repeatable test for "god."?
Yes or no.
That's it.
That is all I need to think there is a god.
emperical evidence &/or repeatable test = proof.
Whenever I say or write "proof" just fill in that word with "emperical evidence &/or repeatable test"
I have no proof of god.
Do you?