Theism versus atheism: What is it really about?

Theism versus atheism: What is it really about?

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t2956-theism-versus-atheism-what-is-it-really-about

The theism versus atheism debate is not about anyone providing empirical proofs or demonstrations in regards to ultimate reality. Theists do not need to provide empirical proof of God's existence. Our senses are limited and can observe only a small fraction of reality.  One needs to use the best epistemological framework, and intellectual tools, that is science, philosophy, and theology, to conclude the most case-adequate explanation of origins.
The investigator has to be honest, rigorous, and permit the evidence to lead wherever it is. The quest is not about  

- Faith and religion versus Science and reason
- Theological dogma versus scientific investigation
- Religion versus science
- Bronze age books versus peer-reviewed papers
- Preaching of supernatural mythology versus the natural
- Facts versus faith
- Magical thinking versus reality
- Magic versus a scientific theory
- Holy Bible versus peer review

It's about

- Good inferences versus bad inferences.
- Good reasons versus bad reasons.
- Reasonable faith versus irrational or blind faith

Either all physical existence, all being, the universe, was caused, created, and fine-tuned, the laws of physics and constants, life, consciousness, and objective moral values were instantiated
by

random,
irregular,
undetermined,
unguided,
undirected,
stochastic ,
unpredictable ,
accidental,
spontaneous,
uncaused,
emergent,
happenstance,
unintended,
unforeseen

events by no mechanism by luck and chance

or

designed
created
foreseen
planned
intended
purposeful
will-based
decision-based
thoughtful
imagined
implemented
invented
generated

by an intelligent mind, a powerful eternal conscious creator

Either biological systems, ecosystems, and biodiversity originated by unguided evolutionary pressures, and long periods of time, or an acting intelligent agency, either using creation or evolutionary mechanisms.  

It is commonly claimed that the alternative to intelligent design is chance. But the chance is not a mechanism. Chance is an occasion that allows something to be done. It is the statistical probability that a random, unguided event occurred naturally. Something that happens unpredictably without discernible intelligent intention or causal agency. Either all-natural, physical things, the universe, stars, galaxies, the earth, life, and biodiversity emerged by a lucky accident, spontaneously through self-organization by unguided natural events in an orderly manner without external direction,  purely physico-dynamic processes, and reactions, or through the direct intervention and creative force of an intelligent agency, a powerful creator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9hbAbtKzBA&lc=UgyyCgqNKRnDj-lAG9l4AaABAg.9XJDAGS-nLb9XOJLoPKJo5

@Katherine Roberts  You made an examination of Gods existence, but so far, you have COMPLETELY failed to explain how we can rationally explain our existence WITHOUT a creator. You have in every interaction simply dismissed the evidence, without further reason. Either you don't have the education to analyse the evidence carefully, and there is nothing wrong about it, or you are not honest enough to recognize that

random,
irregular,
undetermined,
unguided
undirected
stochastic
unpredictable
accidental
spontaneous
uncaused
emergent
happenstance
unintended
unforeseen

events by no mechanism by luck and chance do NOT explain adequately all physical existence, all being, the universe, the laws and constants that govern it like software, its fine-tuning to permit life, the origin of life, consciousness, and objective moral values. Its, frankly, a SILLY proposition.  Claiming that all these things were

designed
created
foreseen
planned
intended
purposeful
will-based
decision-based
thoughtful
imagined
implemented
invented
generated

by an intelligent mind, a powerful eternal conscious creator IS however a rational inference, because we KNOW by our own experience, that an intelligent conscious mind has foresight, intellectual activity, can calculate, think, form abstract ideas, imagine, introspect,  intend,  invent, generate information. It can make blueprints, machines, production lines, computers, compartments, transistors, turbines, energy plants etc. Thats what we all see LITERALLY in molecular biology, but on a MUCH more sophisticated level, than any human has ever been able to device with all its intelligence.


This has nothing to do with INDOCTRINATION, but with using reason and logic to come to plausible, logical, probable conclusions based on the evidence around us.
Yes. Nobody KNOWS what is ultimate reality, we don't have access to it, but we can use our mind to come to reasonable conclusions. No, you are not bursting my bubble. I am bursting yours.

Living life based on reality? What does that even mean? Either God exists, and our lives have meaning, the one our creator gave us, or not. Then, you can make up whatever you want. Its just an illusion. Without God, nor eternity, our lives have no meaning. None.

Life started by random, irregular,undetermined, undirected,stochastic,accidental, events by no mechanism by luck and chance or designed,created by an intelligent mind, a powerful eternal conscious creator