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Intelligent Design, the best explanation of Origins » Bible / Christian faith / Apolotetics » The trinity explained

The trinity explained

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1The trinity explained Empty The trinity explained on Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:46 am

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The trinity explained

http://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t2767-the-trinity-explained

https://www.everystudent.com/forum/trinity.html

The trinity explained Explai10

"Technically, a molecule with resonance is every one of its structures at every point in time, yet no single one of its structures at any point in time. It's all the structures all the time, never just one of them."
This explains how the eternal Word of God became flesh as the Person Jesus Christ, was filled with the Holy Spirit while on earth, did only what He saw His heavenly Father doing, then completed God's salvation for man going to the cross and shedding His blood to cover our sins.
In His resurrected eternal body, Jesus is now Lord of heaven and earth, sitting of God the Father's right hand, giving the gift of the Holy Spirit to all God's born again children who repent of their sins, and receive/honor Him as Lord of their lives.

http://www.billionbibles.com/explain-the-trinity.html

Explaining the Holy Trinity of God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit will be needed at some point when presenting the God of the Bible to children, Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses and other non-believers. Yet most Christians have difficulty explaining the Trinity clearly and Biblically.

Part of the reason for this difficulty in explaining the Trinity is that the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible. Explaining the Trinity to Muslims also must deal with their erroneous equation of the Trinity with polytheism. But the bigger, more common issue is that most professing Christians don't read or know the Bible enough to explain the clear Biblical truth that the word "Trinity" represents.

"One God in Three Persons" nature:

The Father is God;
The Son (Jesus) is God;
The Holy Spirit is God;
but,
The Father is not the Son;
The Son is not the Holy Spirit;
The Holy Spirit is not the Father.

The Bible unequivocally declares monotheism: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!" (Deuteronomy 6:4), and that this declaration from the Old Testament was affirmed by Jesus Himself in the New Testament: "Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.'" (Mark 12:29)

The Bible also unequivocally declares the deity of Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and their oneness with God the Father (the highlights below are added):

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:1,14)

Then as He entered a certain village, there met Him ten men who were lepers, who stood afar off. And they lifted up their voices and said, "Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!" So when He saw them, He said to them, "Go, show yourselves to the priests." And so it was that as they went, they were cleansed. And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, returned, and with a loud voice glorified God, and fell down on his face at His feet, giving Him thanks. And he was a Samaritan. So Jesus answered and said, "Were there not ten cleansed? But where are the nine? Were there not any found who returned to give glory to God except this foreigner?" (Luke 17:12-18)

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God." (Acts 5:1-4)

Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me... I and my Father are one." (John 10:25, 30)

If the hearers acknowledge the above passages but protest that they still can't comprehend how there is one God in three persons, acknowledge that Trinity is hard to grasp but ask if they ultimately should believe what God said or what they can comprehend. The former trusts God as God; the latter reduces God to what fits into the limited human mind.

As an analogy, if a child in an airplane asks how such a heavy machine can remain in the air and then fails to comprehend the aeronautics explained by an engineer, should the child accept the reality of aeronautics or reject it because it is beyond his comprehension?



If Muslim hearers protest that their Quran denies there being one God in three persons, gently but firmly advise them that Muhammad, who dictated the Quran, was illiterate, had only a vague notion of the Bible, and did not even understand who the three persons are: instead of God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, Muhammad mistakenly thought that Trinity refers to Allah, Mary and Jesus:

And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?'"... - Quran 5:116

Did Jesus ever tell anyone to treat Mary as a deity?

Of course not. To the contrary, Jesus told people that Mary had nothing to do spiritually with Him and God the Father:

While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. Then one said to Him, "Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You." But He answered and said to the one who told Him, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?" And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, "Here are My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother." (Matthew 12:46-50)

http://elshamah.heavenforum.com

2The trinity explained Empty Re: The trinity explained on Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:30 am

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Eric Murphy & Trey Jadlow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSrvuba5WKA

how do you know it's not Allah

Allah is a monad and you cannot have if God is unipersonal then he would depend on creation in order to be relational and therefore he would be deficient and he would be contingent by definition he must be relational as he is so Allah does not work

so you're saying that relational is equality can you can you help me understand what relational is

are we relating to each other

sure

would it be fair to say that you call that quality of relationality one

I I'm willing to accept that okay okay

so Allah how can he be relational and love be real when there's when he depends on creation in order to love

so you're saying that the the the Muslim God depends on love to exist

no it depends on creation in order to love

okay

and love, therefore, is not a part of who he is, therefore, it cannot be loving

okay so how do you give your God that out I mean you you're assigning qualities to a thing that you can't even show has thoughts because even if I granted you the the the premise that we've been arguing about we can we don't you what's your justification for that being a thinking being

because we see thought  and purpose theology instantiating in this conversation right now

are you giving me the argument from look at the trees

no I'm giving the argument for you wanting to interact with me you cannot have is that a purpose is that a goal for you to interact with me and to learn maybe or to share an idea

or so I'm just I'm surprised so you're saying that you see intentionality in this universe and that points back to a thinking God

you can't have intention unintentionally

I agree so how did you get to the idea that there's intention

because you just intended to say that

all I need is one instant of intention I mean there must be an eternal intention ER because intention can I intentionally

hold on he created I mean technology no it means that where you were describing

https://themelios.thegospelcoalition.org/review/allah-a-christian-response/
No adequate relationship can exist in one unipersonal being, and the triune relationship is others-love and not self-love. In fact, the glory of the Trinity is in the honor each person gives to the others. This love and humility not only overflowed in creating but also in Christ’s death on the cross.

https://www.monergism.com/who-god-mp3-series
If God was unipersonal, there would have been no love until he created the world. However, if the world was created by a triune God, then relationships of love are what life is all about. The Godhead is characterized by mutual self-giving love as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit orbit around one another in a dance. It is impossible for us to join in if we focus on ourselves, but through Jesus Christ and his sacrificial death on the cross, we can be brought into the dance. Scripture: Mark 1:9-13; Genesis


THE REASON FOR GOD Belief in an Age of Skepticism TIMOTHY KELLER

The Divine Dance
Christianity, alone among the world faiths, teaches that God is triune. The doctrine of the Trinity is that God is one being who exists eternally in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Trinity means that God is, in essence, relational.

The gospel writer John describes the Son as living from all eternity in the “bosom of the Father” (John 1:18), an ancient metaphor for love and intimacy. Later in John’s gospel, Jesus, the Son, describes the Spirit as living to “glorify” him (John 16:14). In turn, the Son glorifies the Father (17:4) and the Father, the Son (17:5). This has been going on for all eternity (17:5b).

What does the term “glorify” mean? To glorify something or someone is to praise, enjoy, and delight in them. When something is useful you are attracted to it for what it can bring you or do for you. But if it is beautiful, then you enjoy it simply for what it is. Just being in its presence is its own reward. To glorify someone is also to serve or defer to him or her. Instead of sacrificing their interests to make yourself happy, you sacrifice your interests to make them happy. Why? Your ultimate joy is to see them in joy.

What does it mean, then, that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit glorify one another? If we think of it graphically, we could say that self-centeredness is to be stationary, static. In self-centeredness, we demand that others orbit around us. We will do things and give affection to others, as long as it helps us meet our personal goals and fulfills us. The inner life of the triune God, however, is utterly different. The life of the Trinity is characterized not by self-centeredness but by mutually self-giving love. When we delight and serve someone else, we enter into a dynamic orbit around him or her, we center on the interests and desires of the other. That creates a dance, particularly if there are three persons, each of whom moves around the other two. So it is, the Bible tells us. Each of the divine person centers upon the others. None demands that the others revolve around him. Each voluntarily circles the other two, pouring love, delight, and adoration into them. Each person of the Trinity loves, adores,
defers to, and rejoices in the others. That creates a dynamic, pulsating dance of joy and love. The early leaders of the Greek church had a word for this— perichoresis. Notice our word “choreography” within it. It means literally to “dance or flow around.”

The Father…Son…and Holy Spirit glorify each other…. At the center of the universe, self-giving love is the dynamic currency of the Trinitarian life of God. The persons within God exalt, commune with, and defer to one another…. When early Greek Christians spoke of perichoresis in God they meant that each divine person harbors the others at the center of his being. In constant movement of overture and acceptance each person envelops and encircles the others.

In Christianity God is not an impersonal thing nor a static thing—not even just one person—but a dynamic pulsating activity, a life, a kind of drama, almost, if you will not think me irreverent, a kind of dance…. [The] pattern of this three-personal life is…the great fountain of energy and beauty spurting up at the very center of reality.3 The doctrine of the Trinity overloads our mental circuits. Despite its cognitive difficulty, however, this astonishing, dynamic conception of the triune God is bristling with profound, wonderful, life-shaping, world-changing implications.

If God is unipersonal, then until God created other beings there was no love, since love is something that one person has for another. This means that a unipersonal God was power, sovereignty, and
greatness from all eternity, but not love. Love then is not of the essence of God, nor is it at the heart of the universe. Power is primary. However, if God is triune, then loving relationships in community are
the “great fountain…at the center of reality.” When people say, “God is love,” I think they mean that love is extremely important, or that God really wants us to love. But in the Christian conception, God really has love as his essence. If he was just one person he couldn’t have been loving for all eternity.

Ultimate reality is a community of persons who know and love one another. That is what the universe, God, history, and life is all about. If you favor money, power, and accomplishment over human relationships, you will dash yourself on the rocks of reality. When Jesus said you must lose yourself in service to find yourself (Mark 8:35), he was recounting what the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have been doing throughout eternity. You will, then, never get a sense of self by standing still, as it were, and making everything revolve around your needs and interests. Unless you are willing to experience the loss of options and the individual limitation that comes from being in committed relationships, you will remain out of touch with your own nature and the nature of things.

Jonathan Edwards, in reflecting on the interior life of the triune God, concluded that God is infinitely happy. Within God is a community of persons pouring glorifying, joyful love into one another. Think about this pattern in our own experience. Imagine there is someone you admire more than anyone else in the world. You would do anything for him or her. Now imagine you discover that this person feels exactly the same about you, and you enter into either a lifetime friendship or a romantic relationship and marriage. Sound like heaven? Yes, because it comes from heaven—that is what God has known within himself but in depths and degrees that are infinite and unimaginable. That is why God is infinitely happy, because there is an “other-orientation” at the heart of his being, because he does not seek his own glory but the glory of others.

“But wait,” you say. “On nearly every page of the Bible God calls us to glorify, praise, and serve him. How can you say he doesn’t seek his own glory?” Yes he does ask us to obey him unconditionally, to glorify, praise, and center our lives around him. But now, I hope, you finally see why he does that. He wants our joy! He has infinite happiness not through self-centeredness, but through self-giving, other-centered love. And the only way we, who have been created in his image, can have this same joy, is if we center our entire lives around him instead of ourselves.

Why would such an infinitely good, perfect, and eternal being create?… Here Edwards drew on the Christian Trinitarian conception of God as essentially interpersonal…. The ultimate reason that God creates, said Edwards, is not to remedy some lack in God, but to extend that perfect internal communication of the triune God’s goodness and love…. God’s joy and happiness and delight in divine perfections is expressed externally by communicating that happiness and delight to created beings…. The universe is an explosion of God’s glory. Perfect goodness, beauty, and love radiate from God and draw creatures to ever increasingly share in the Godhead’s joy and delight…. The ultimate end of creation, then, is union in love between God and loving creatures

God did not create us to get the cosmic, infinite joy of mutual love and glorification, but to share it. We were made to join in the dance. If we will center our lives on him, serving him not out of self-interest, but just for the sake of who he is, for the sake of his beauty and glory, we will enter the dance and share in the joy and love he lives in. We were designed, then, not just for belief in God in some general way, nor for a vague kind of inspiration or spirituality. We were made to center our lives upon him, to make the purpose and passion of our lives knowing, serving, delighting, and resembling him. This growth in happiness will go on eternally, increasing unimaginably (1 Corinthians 2:7-10).

This leads to a uniquely positive view of the material world. The world is not, as other creation accounts would have it, an illusion, the result of a battle among the gods, nor the accidental outcome of natural forces. It was made in joy and therefore is good in and of itself. The universe is understood as a dance of beings united by energies binding yet distinct, like planets orbiting stars, like tides and seasons, “like atoms in a molecule, like the tones in a chord, like the living organisms on this earth, like the mother with the baby stirring in her body.”

The love of the inner life of the Trinity is written all through it. Creation is a dance!

http://elshamah.heavenforum.com

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