The Paradox: Grown-up Galaxies in an Infant Universe

The Paradox: Grown-up Galaxies in an Infant Universe

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t3091-the-paradox-grown-up-galaxies-in-an-infant-universe

Big Bang cosmology predicts that galaxies evolve over long periods of time:  If galaxies were all formed long ago, distant galaxies should look younger than those nearby because light from them requires a longer time to reach us. Such galaxies should contain more short-lived stars and more gas out of which future generations of stars will form.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-evolution-of-the-universe/

The Genesis model, where God "stretched out" the heavens and created a "mature" universe, (in the same sense as he created Adam looking "mature" and grown up, even after being created instants ago), predicts ensembles of galaxies close to us should look statistically the same as those far away.

And that is what is being observed through the new J.Webb telescope.

Creation Cosmology Confirmed!
by Dr. Lisle | Sep 9, 2022 | Astronomy, Origins
https://biblicalscienceinstitute.com/origins/creation-cosmology-confirmed/

I asked Ethan Siegel ( He writes frequently in Forbes magazine, great articles btw.)  what it means to find fully developed and grown galaxies close to the Big bang with the James Webb telescope:
He answered two things: 1. They have already found galaxies that are fully grown up, 600 Mio light years from the Big bang, and
2. Scientists did not expect ( or predict ) this, and there is no scientific answer.

Well. Maybe.... we have an answer

This might be the most important scientific news in our generation, with astonishing consequences in regard to science, philosophy, and worldviews. It will make a naturalistic claim for the origin of our universe MUCH more difficult - and confirm Genesis 1.

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Zechariah 12:1
The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person

Science, once again, moving forward with new evidence at hand, corroborates the Bible !! Romans 3:4

Let God be true, and every human being a liar.

Panic! The Big Bang didn't happen
What do the James Webb images really show?

Panic!  At the Disks: First Rest-frame Optical Observations of Galaxy Structure at z>3 with JWST in the SMACS 0723 Field
https://arxiv.org/abs/2207.09428

Our key findings are: 
I. The morphological types of galaxies changes less quickly than previously believed, based on precursor HST imaging and results. That is, these early JWST results suggest that the formation of normal galaxy structure was much earlier than previously thought. 
II. A major aspect of this is our discovery that disk galaxies are quite common at z > 3 − 6, where they make up ∼ 50% of the galaxy population, which is over 10 times as high as what was previously thought to be the case with HST observations. That is, this epoch is surprisingly full of disk galaxies, which observationally we had not been able to determine before JWST. 
III. Distant galaxies at z > 3 in the rest-frame optical, despite their appearance in the HST imaging, are not as highly clumpy and asymmetric as once thought. This effect has not been observed before due to the nature of existing deep imaging with the HST which could probe only ultraviolet light at z > 3. This shows the great power of JWST to probe rest-frame optical where the underlying mass of galaxies can now be traced and measured.

Why do the JWST’s images inspire panic among cosmologists? And what theory’s predictions are they contradicting? The papers don’t actually say. The truth that these papers don’t report is that the hypothesis that the JWST’s images are blatantly and repeatedly contradicting is the Big Bang Hypothesis that the universe began 14 billion years ago in an incredibly hot, dense state and has been expanding ever since. Since that hypothesis has been defended for decades as unquestionable truth by the vast majority of cosmological theorists, the new data is causing these theorists to panic. “Right now I find myself lying awake at three in the morning,” says Alison Kirkpatrick, an astronomer at the University of Kansas in Lawrence, “and wondering if everything I’ve done is wrong.”

The galaxies that the JWST shows are just the same size as the galaxies near to us, assuming that the universe is not expanding and redshift is proportional to distance.

https://iai.tv/articles/the-big-bang-didnt-happen-auid-2215?_auid=2020


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAhvuii41RE

Dr. Danny R. Faulkner on August 9, 2022 :A more recent study claimed to identify a galaxy so far away that it dates to only 200 million years after the big bang.2 If astronomers accept these distances and ages, then it will require extensive rewriting of their understanding of galaxy formation and early evolution, as well as the formation of stars.
https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/james-webb-space-telescope-distant-galaxies/

YEC view should predict that we will find more and more distant galaxies, fully developed. 

Mark Corbett:
1. Will show similar amounts of rotation and development of spiral shapes as nearby galaxies on average
2. Will have similar levels of dust and metallicity as nearby galaxies on average
3. The stars will be on average similar rather than having a higher portion of larger, bluer, hotter, faster burning stars
4. The galaxies on average will be similar in size

The earliest galaxies in the universe are commonly thought to have been much smaller associations of stars that gradually merged to build large galaxies like our Milky Way.. But, among the most distant galaxies ever seen, they appears to be unusually massive and mature for its place in the young universe. This came as a surprise to astronomers. While astronomers generally believe most galaxies were built piecewise by mergers of smaller galaxies, the discovery of this object suggests at least a few galaxies formed quickly long ago. For such a large galaxy, this would have been a tremendously explosive event of star birth.
https://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/starsgalaxies/spitzer-20050927.html

My comment: For a believer that God created the universe and the earth in six days, this comes not to a surprise. God created everything fully ready from the get go.

Peering deep into the Universe we see objects as there were when the light first left them. Images such as the Hubble Ultra Deep Field show that huge numbers of galaxies of all sizes had grown surprisingly quickly in the early Universe.
https://theconversation.com/baby-galaxies-light-up-the-universe-72860

An Old-looking Galaxy in a Young Universe
One of the most distant galaxies ever observed has provided astronomers with the first detection of dust in such a remote star-forming system and tantalising evidence for the rapid evolution of galaxies after the Big Bang. The new observations have used ALMA to pick up the faint glow from cold dust in the galaxy A1689-zD1 and used ESO’s Very Large Telescope to measure its distance.
https://www.eso.org/public/news/eso1508/


Galaxies in the infant universe were surprisingly mature
Largest survey yet of distant galaxies in the early universe “Massive galaxies were already much more mature in the early universe than previously expected. This was shown by an international team of astronomers who studied 118 distant galaxies with the Atacama Large Millimeter/submillimeter Array (ALMA).”
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201027105426.htm

The ALPINE-ALMA [CII] survey Dust attenuation properties and obscured star formation at z ∼4.4–5.8 
https://sci-hub.ren/10.1051/0004-6361/202038163

Massive Galaxies in Early Universe were More Mature than Previously Thought  October 27, 2020
Galaxies are considered more ‘mature’ than ‘primordial’ when they contain a significant amount of dust and heavy elements — by-products of dying stars. But galaxies in the early Universe have not had much time to build stars yet, so astronomers don’t expect to see much dust or heavy elements there either. “To our surprise, many of them were much more mature than we had expected,”
[url=http://www.sci-news.com/astronomy/mature-massive-galaxies-early-universe- 08992.html]http://www.sci-news.com/astronomy/mature-massive-galaxies-early-universe- 08992.html[/url]

This finding contravenes current models [underline added] for that period of cosmic evolution 2019
"The existence of these large number of massive and dusty galaxies is unexpected in
current models or simulations, which shows that the Universe can form massive
systems more efficiently in the early times than we thought," Tao Wang
https://sci-hub.ren/10.1038/s41586-019-1452-4

"This finding contravenes current models [underline added] for that period of cosmic evolution and will help to add some details, which have been missing until now." Tao Wang
https://www.sciencealert.com/astronomers-have-just-found-some-of-the-earlyuniverses-missing-galaxies

ESO (European Southern Observatory): An Old-looking Galaxy in a Young Universe
“They were surprised to discover a far more evolved system than expected. It had a fraction of dust similar to a very mature galaxy, such as the Milky Way.”
https://www.eso.org/public/usa/news/eso1508/

National Geographic: Astronomers Find a Dusty Galaxy That Shouldn't Exist
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/2/150302-black-hole-blastbiggest-science-galaxies-space/

The Paradox: Grown-up Galaxies in an Infant Universe (NASA - December 1994)
“The surprise is that elliptical galaxies appeared remarkably "normal" when the universe was a fraction of its current age, meaning that they must have formed a short time after the Big Bang… The surprise is that elliptical galaxies appeared remarkably "normal" when the universe was a fraction of its current age, meaning that they must have formed a short time after the Big Bang.”
https://hubblesite.org/contents/news-releases/1994/news-1994-52.html

Rare Grand-Design Spiral Galaxy at Redshift z = 2.18 (19 July 2012);
“The fact that this galaxy exists is astounding,” Law said. “Current wisdom holds that such grand design spiral galaxies didn't exist at such an early time in the history of the universe.” D.R. Law
https://sci-hub.ren/10.1038/nature11256

A dusty, normal galaxy in the epoch of reionization (Nature) (19 March 2015)
“Last week we learned of an incredibly massive black hole in the early universe. Now we have this average galaxy with significant amounts of dust. We've had this cartoon picture of the early universe, but it's clear that we really don't know what's going on.” (Daniel Marrone, University of Arizona)
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature14164?page=1

Water in the Early Universe 2011 November 10.
“… it is another demonstration that water is pervasive throughout the universe, even at the very earliest times.”
Matt Bradford NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory
https://www.nasa.gov/topics/universe/features/universe20110722.html

It sounds like Genesis 1:2 (… the Spirit of God hovering over the water in the beginning of God’s creation!)

Has the James Webb telescope proven the Big bang theory wrong?

AUGUST 25, 2022
No, the James Webb Space Telescope did not disprove the Big Bang
https://bigthink.com/hard-science/big-bang-jwst-james-webb/

It has certainly not demonstrated that the universe did not have a beginning. It has demonstrated, however, that Galaxies fully formed much earlier than previously thought. That is a BIG blow to the narrative, that it took billions of years for these galaxies to form. The big question, obviously, now is, how is it possible that the early universe does have fully developed galaxies? The only answer is that God created them as stated in Genesis. He stretched out the heavens and created the stars.

Once again, quite contrary to the claims that science has solved all mysteries and that God is not needed, this adds up to the exact opposite conclusion. A hundred years ago, science had to admit, the universe had a beginning. Therefore, a cause. In the fifties of the last century, that life is driven and directed by instructional information. Instructional assembly information comes always from the mind. Molecular biology has unraveled that life is made of irreducibly complex cell factories. Factories require a factory maker. Junk DNA has unraveled to have function. The evolutionary narrative has gone to the ground once again. Multicellular organisms are built not only based on genetics, but mainly on epigenetic information, and signaling pathways. Evolution, again, bye-bye. Now the last big blow. Early galaxies point to creation.

Science points to creation. God is the great culpable for creation. There is no way to deny it. Unless you are a wilful ignorant.

NEW WEBB TELESCOPE OBSERVATIONS THROW A WRENCH IN OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIG BANG

https://www.inverse.com/science/the-latest-webb-observations-dont-disprove-the-big-bang-but-they-are-interesting

Our current understanding is that after the big bang, the universe went through a period known as the dark ages. During this period, the first light of the cosmos had faded, and the first stars and galaxies hadn’t yet formed. Webb is so sensitive it can see some of the youngest galaxies that formed just after the dark ages. We would expect those young galaxies to be less numerous and less developed than later galaxies. But the Webb observations have found very redshifted, very young galaxies that are both common and surprisingly mature.

It’s the kind of puzzling and unexpected data astronomers were hoping for. It’s why we wanted to build the Webb telescope in the first place. And it tells us that while the big bang model isn’t wrong, some of our assumptions about it might be.

James Webb Telescope FINALLY Proves The Big Bang Theory Is Wrong!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAxgaTvYA7Y

SHOCKED EVERYONE! The Big Bang May Have NEVER Happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJwEYJb7eks

The new images of the cosmos captured by the James Webb Space Telescope are breathtaking however most expert astronomers and cosmologists find them exceedingly shocking and not at all what the theory predicted the authors repeatedly remark in the rush of technical astronomical Publications released online since July 12th that the images show a shockingly large number of galaxies that are surprisingly smooth surprisingly faint and surprisingly ancient there are many surprises some of which are not always Pleasant the title of one paper begins with a direct exclamation Panic it is not difficult to understand why these are too few too smooth too ancient and too many galaxies are incompatible with the Big Bang Theory. But before we go any further it's important to note that these discoveries have not yet been peer reviewed. Big Bang theorists have known for years that the Hubble Space Telescope images indicate the existence of these small ultra-dense Mighty Mouse galaxies unfortunately James Webb has made things worse the same theories suggest that small galaxies evolve into modern galaxies by colliding and merging to become more spread out. James Webb saw disproportionately smooth discs and tidy spiral shapes similar to what we find in today's galaxies according to the findings in the Panic article smooth spiral galaxies were around 10 times as abundant as the theory expected and this would challenge our ideas about mergers being a very common process in a nutshell this evidence completely demolishes the merger Theory with few or no mergers small galaxies cannot expand to be 100 times larger, as a result, they were never small and hence the optical illusion promised by the expanding Universe concept does not occur however No Illusion implies no expansion the illusion is an essential consequence of expansion. As a result Big Bang proponents are in a state of fear small and smooth galaxies imply no expansion and as a result no big bang and according to the theory there is nothing that could have been prior to
the Big Bang the existence of these galaxies proves that the Big Bang did not occur at all but is this possible to put it another way could our universe have no beginning the Big Bang is the idea that in the distant past our universe was hotter denser and more uniform it is not the notion that things became arbitrarily hot and dense to the point that the loss of physics no longer applied. It is the idea that the Universe expanded cooled and gravitated we destroyed our excess antimatter becoming protons neutrons light nuclei atoms and eventually Stars galaxies and ultimately the universe we know today it is no longer considered that space and time arose from a singularity 13.8 billion years ago in a nutshell the Big Bang may not be the absolute beginning of the universe but it may be the origin of our universe as we know it if it is it won't be the beginning of everything but it would be our beginning it may not be the full Tale in and of itself but it is an important element of the larger Cosmic story that binds us all and now as always if you want to learn more about space and NASA's James Webb Space Telescope. 

the James Webb Space Telescope has found some unusual things. Most significantly, it has found more galaxies and more distant galaxies than there should be, and that could lead to some revolutionary changes in our standard model.

Comment: Maybe the inference that there was no beginning is false. And these galaxies very early are evidence that they were never the product of the merging of smaller galaxies but were created fully grown up by God.

Estimates based on observations from the Hubble Space Telescope and other sources suggest that there may be at least 100 billion galaxies in the observable universe alone.

The biggest known galaxy in the observable universe is IC 1101, which is located about 1.07 billion light years away from Earth in the constellation of Virgo. It is an elliptical galaxy and is estimated to have a diameter of about 6 million light years, making it more than 50 times larger than our Milky Way galaxy. IC 1101 is also one of the most massive galaxies known, with a mass estimated to be 100 trillion times that of the Sun.

That one alone is estimated to contain trillions of stars.

It is also estimated that there are millions of galaxy clusters in the observable universe. On average, a galaxy cluster can contain several thousand galaxies.

God knows all the stars by name.

Psalm 147:4 "He determines the number of the stars; he gives to all of them their names."

This verse implies that God has knowledge of all the stars in the universe and even assigns names to them.

Similarly, in Isaiah 40:26, it says

"Lift up your eyes on high and see: who created these? He who brings out their host by number, calling them all by name; by the greatness of his might and because he is strong in power, not one is missing."

This verse reinforces the idea that God not only knows all the stars but also has the power to create and sustain them.

Now think about this. God who created all this vast universe, considered you so important, that he created all the conditions, so that you could come to my Facebook timeline to meet me, his servant, so that i could tell you about it. So that you could wonder and ponder, and give him praise.

Praise Him.

Oh, Lord, your power is immense
Your wisdom, beyond compare
You created this vast universe
With billions of stars to spare

You hung each star in place
With precision and perfect design
And in this vast expanse of space
We see your glory shine

Your creation is a testament
To your great strength and might
From the tiniest grain of sand
To the brightest starry night

But not only have you created
This vast and wondrous sphere
You also made us, mere mortals
With the capacity to revere

We are in awe of your intelligence
And your loving, guiding hand
You have equipped us with knowledge
To explore and understand

So, we praise you, mighty Father
For all that you have done
For creating this magnificent world
And for making us your beloved ones

May we always remember
To give thanks for your great grace
And to follow your path of love and light
Till we behold your glorious face.

ONCE JUST A SPECK OF LIGHT, NOW REVEALED AS THE BIGGEST KNOWN GALAXY IN THE EARLY UNIVERSE

Detailed pictures of one of the first galaxies show growth in the early Universe was much faster than first thought

The observations made by the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) have significantly challenged traditional cosmological models, particularly those related to the early formation of galaxies and the universe's overall timeline. The discovery of galaxies like Gz9p3, which appears far more massive and mature than previously thought possible for its age, has prompted a reevaluation of how quickly galaxies can form and evolve. This galaxy, observed as it was just 510 million years after the Big Bang, contains several billion stars and shows characteristics of a merger with another galaxy. This level of complexity and maturity so soon after the Big Bang is at odds with the gradual galaxy formation models predicted by the Big Bang theory. Furthermore, the presence of heavy elements like silicon, carbon, and iron in such early galaxies contradicts the expected timeline for stellar evolution and the production of these elements through supernova events. This suggests that the processes leading to galaxy formation and chemical enrichment were more rapid and efficient than current models account for. These findings, alongside the discovery of other mature early galaxies and phenomena such as supermassive black holes at high redshifts, indicate that the universe's early years were more dynamic and complex than previously understood. This challenges the conventional view of a more uniform and gradual process of galaxy formation and evolution. The JWST's revelations have led some to question the accuracy of the Big Bang model itself, particularly in light of ongoing issues such as the "Hubble Tension," which relates to discrepancies in measurements of the universe's expansion rate. While these observations do not necessarily invalidate the Big Bang theory, they do highlight significant gaps in our understanding of the universe's early dynamics and composition. These developments underscore the need for revised or new cosmological models that can account for the early and rapid formation of complex, mature galaxies. They also highlight the exciting and evolving nature of cosmological research, as new observations continue to challenge and refine our understanding of the universe's origins and evolution.

This discrepancy has led some researchers to propose new models or modifications to existing ones to reconcile these observations with our understanding of cosmic timelines​​​​. One such proposal comes from Rajendra Gupta of the University of Ottawa, who suggests the universe might be as old as 26.7 billion years. Gupta's model attempts to blend the traditional big bang model with the tired light theory, which posits that the redshift observed in light from distant galaxies (a key indicator used to measure the universe's expansion and age) might also include a component where light loses energy over vast distances. By incorporating evolving "coupling constants," as originally proposed by physicist Paul Dirac, which govern the interactions between particles and might have varied over time, Gupta's model provides a framework that could explain the advanced development observed in early galaxies captured by JWST. Hypotheses suggesting the universe might be significantly older than the current estimate of about 13.8 billion years face several scientific challenges. Such ideas conflict with the Cosmic Microwave Background data. They also clash with the roles of dark matter and dark energy within the Lambda Cold Dark Matter model. Any hypothesis proposing a much older universe would need to reconcile these ages to avoid logical inconsistencies. Without compelling evidence to support a drastic change in the universe's age, these hypotheses remain speculative.

These findings, showcasing galaxies like Gz9p3 and GN-z11 with significant mass, mature star populations, and even complex structures indicative of galaxy mergers, present a challenging picture for traditional models of gradual galactic evolution and the slow accretion of mass and heavy elements over billions of years. These new findings support the hypothesis that the universe was created by God in a mature state, a concept that aligns with the account of creation found in the Book of Genesis. From this perspective, the mature features of these distant galaxies, despite their supposed placement in a nascent universe only a few hundred million years post-Big Bang, are evidence of a universe that was created fully and functioning—a hallmark of a mature creation. The notion of a mature creation suggests that the universe was created with the appearance of age, meaning that stars, galaxies, and other celestial bodies were created in a state that, under conventional scientific models, would imply a history of billions of years of development. This concept can account for the presence of heavy elements, large galactic masses, and the advanced stages of galactic mergers observed by the JWST in what is traditionally considered the early universe. In a mature creation model, such features do not require eons to develop but are instead integral to the initial creation, thus providing a coherent explanation for their presence without the need for extensive temporal frameworks.

Furthermore, the apparent rapid formation of stars and galaxies, and the presence of heavy elements in these early structures, challenge the slow, progressive models of cosmic evolution. In a YEC framework, these phenomena do not pose a contradiction, as they are consistent with the idea of a universe that was created to function as a mature whole from the beginning, with all necessary elements and structures in place. The YEC interpretation also brings a different perspective to the so-called "Hubble Tension" and other cosmological conundrums, such as the unexpectedly high luminosity of distant galaxies or the presence of supermassive black holes in what should be the universe's formative epochs. These issues, which challenge the consistency of the Big Bang model, are artifacts of a universe that was not born through a gradual process but was instead instantaneously created in a state of maturity.

More: https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/once-just-a-speck-of-light-now-revealed-as-the-biggest-known-galaxy-in-the-early-universe