Intelligent Design, the best explanation of Origins
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Intelligent Design, the best explanation of Origins

This is my personal virtual library, where i collect information, which leads in my view to Intelligent Design as the best explanation of the origin of the physical Universe, life, and biodiversity

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Intelligent Design, the best explanation of Origins » Astronomy & Cosmology and God » The starlight problem - The starlight distance - a problem for a young universe interpretation ?

The starlight problem - The starlight distance - a problem for a young universe interpretation ?

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The starlight distance - a problem for a young universe interpretation ?

The faster you go, the slower time takes. As you approach the speed of light, time continues to slow down, AT the speed of light...time STOPS! Which means for a photon moving at the speed of light, when it is absorbed in your retina, it is the same instant it was emitted at the Big Bang 14 billion years ago.....if you are that photon, it does not experience that delay." -Neil deGrasse Tyson << Now taking this equation or theory with Richard Dawkins "theory" that "The universe and live within it APPEARS to be designed but it's not designed". Can we also say that the Universe appears to be old but it's not really old? Maybe the age of the universe is really a delusion and there is no age at all or maybe it really is a young Universe??

Robert Webb  The starlight is no problem as the galaxies were much closer and did not form later and then send light. It is a hidden presupposition which is answered by the expansion. Light was in place already from solar systems and galaxies and during an expansion the solar systems and galaxies should be thought of like pennies on a ballon that expands. The light is already in place when originated were much closer to us. The hidden false presupposition is to measure the distance now and then calculate the speed of light instead properly calculating the original position of the earth being much, much closer and then effect of speed light during an expansion and accelerating universe. As well there is evidence the speed of light was faster in the past, possibly instantaneous and slowed down subject to the decay of the fallen universe. Humphries has dealt with this and responded to the critical reviews.

1) the one directional speed of light is unknown 2) special relativity actually suggests the speed of light "adjusts" itself relative to the speed of the source 3) inflation theory/God stretches out the heavens 4) we can't measure distance accurately beyond parallax, so distance to celestial objects is largely unknown. 5) age assumptions are based on distance assumptions and assumptions about the speed of light. There is no empirical reason to believe distance and age correlate, or to believe objects are as distant as commonly assumed.

William Barney  When traveling at speeds near the speed of light special relativity says that time is dilated. Thus relative to another inertial frame (where perhaps a stationary twin sits) time for the moving twin is slowing down. Hence the stationary twin is aging faster.
The moving twin is of course moving away. The stationary twin is stationary. So what happens when the moving twin stops and reverses moving back to the stationary twin? Will the stationary twin be older than the lightspeed twin? The answers is no. As the moving twin approaches the stationary twin the moving twin accelerates in aging while the stationary twin deaccelerates. So when the moving twin arrives they are in fact the same age. Now apply this to modern astronomy. As we measure distance and calculate time we measure light in one direction heading away. That is why we say that it would take 60 light years to reach a star. But light travels too us not away. So when calculating starlight we need to calculate light coming to the earth NOT going away because time is accelerated when photons travel to us and not away. This means that stars are much much younger than what modern cosmology generally believes. I hope I made something complicated simple and easy to understand. My trade is I am a space communications specialist.

Why do scientist say the universe is ~ 13 billion years old and we can see to the edge of the known universe. There are two problems here. One the edge of the universe is ~ 47 billion years away from us, making seeing light from that distance impossible. Yet we set exposers on the Hubble telescope to capture those images of those distance galaxies. The estimate of the time of the universe is off. Second the universe is transparent. Why? most of the universe is still gaseous. And all of it is ionized meaning it should be opaque. What it says in Genesis is that the light was created, then the stars on the 4th day. If this is true, then light was created to be in route like it was an eternal display. This seems to be the case if the diameter of the universe is 96 billion light years across and there is not enough time for light from the edge to get to us. Yet we see all of the universe at every angle and direction clearly.In order for this to still work they have come up with a theory to solve the problem. It is called "inflation". This explanation says that at one point in the early part of the Big Bang matter had to have expanded rapidly and I mean so rapidly it defied a law of physics. Going faster than light itself. We know that matter cannot go faster than light because the energy needed would be greater than all the energy of the entire universe. So, science doesn't know how all these things came about, yet to explain this away they come up with theories to explain theories because they are stuck. It's a theory which will fall by the wayside like Heckle's drawings (which were a fraud), the Genesis wave(featured in Star Trek), and junk DNA(which isn't junk but functioning code), and oh so much more that Darwinian evolution has predicted yet fails to answer. Your denial of the biblical account is not true to science.

remember God created light first before the stars.
And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. How could this be? Well if photons can travel faster than light then they can travel faster then time. This is what was found in the experiment with the experiment done in Cern laboratories. That means that light would shine before the source became visible JUST LIKE GENESIS CLAIMS!!!!! WOW!!!!!!

Faster than light particles found, claim scientists
Particle physicists detect neutrinos travelling faster than light, a feat forbidden by Einstein's theory of special relativity

It is a concept that forms a cornerstone of our understanding of the universe and the concept of time – nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.
But now it seems that researchers working in one of the world's largest physics laboratories, under a mountain in central Italy, have recorded particles travelling at a speed that is supposedly forbidden by Einstein's theory of special relativity. Scientists at the Gran Sasso facility will unveil evidence on Friday that raises the troubling possibility of a way to send information back in time, blurring the line between past and present and wreaking havoc with the fundamental principle of cause and effect. They will announce the result at a special seminar at Cern – the European particle physics laboratory – timed to coincide with the publication of a research paper (pdf) describing the experiment.

Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the OPERA detector in the CNGS beam

Starlight issue:

The light from stars reach us at the speed of light, right? Wrong.
The universe is expanding. (Faster now than before) so starlight is reaching us at lightspeed + expansion speed.

The bible agrees with what science now informs us regarding starlight as far as how it is possible to see starlight from so far.

Isaiah 42:5 (KJV) 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Remember, a lightyear is a distance, not a timespan.

Distant Starlight—The Anisotropic Synchrony Convention

Last edited by Admin on Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:44 am; edited 15 times in total


David Caldarola - that works against you too. I have seen some videos reporting tests in the lab that shows fossilization can at least begin to occur in as little as six month. But here's a "kick-in -the-groin-" just for fun. A scientist calculated the quantum physics of an expanding universe to determine the fluctuations in the duration of time. Science will tell you that time is affected by gravity, and a minute on the moon is faster than on earth, and a minute on the sun is slower. So, making whatever calculations were needed, he came up with the notion that to "someone" outside of our time and space looking into the expanding universe, a process of almost 16 billion years to us, would seem like.... wait for it..... 6 days to him.

David Wilson Distant starlight, as you say, is not worth a thing in establishing an old earth, because gravity distorts time, and there is plenty of it in and between the island galaxies. And it is not just "how times is perceived", atomic clocks, as I mentioned, exposed to different degrees of gravitational force fall out of sync. Therefore, to know, or even have a reasonable suspicion that distant starlight can be used as a barometer for the age of the earth, you need at least two points of reference at enough of a distance, like between hundreds of galaxies, to even make a guess. But that does not mean that the mainstream scientific community won;t keep trying to have it their own way regardless of the facts----->

Charlie Wolcott You mentioned star light distance. That's a problem for Old Earth as well, not just YEC. That tells me there is something wrong with the measuring tools. There's no accuracy to any of those models. You can get precision, but no accuracy.

The Universe was stretched out.
The OP assumes the Big Bang is true. Peter Berean has done a wonderful job of detailing the points of why it is logical to conclude that the Universe came into being created by a entity outside of the existing universe. The failure of the OP is to understand the very fundamental understanding that IF God used the miraculous (outside of the laws of nature as they are now known) to create the universe, then why has OEC restricted God to the miraculous only at the initial beginning, and restricted Him to the CURRENT set of physical laws from all points past the initial Big Bang event? Such logic is fundamentally flawed. He COULD have done it that way, or He COULD have chosen to CREATE beyond the INITIAL start. The bible tells us that God STRETCHED out the heavens. Thus indicating, as science seems to have confirmed that there was an initial point and time in which the creation event BEGAN. The bible indicates that God did not CREATE just in one moment, but that there were different DAYS of creation (not epochs), thus the creation was accomplished over a period of TIME. That creation would have been MIRACULOUS at each stage. When GOD created the heavens, the bible clearly tells us this was a miraculous event, that the stars themselves were set in place, "for signs, for seasons, for day, and for years". The bible also says that He named each one. The bible also says that LIGHT itself was CREATED. IF God stretched out the heavens, that would indicate that it was NOT done at a natural speed. IF God placed stars Billions of light years away, It would not make sense to create them so they would NOT be seen by His primary creation. The bible clearly says they were created to be seen. The light for those stars was “stretched” out at the same time as the rest of the universe, cleanly, elegantly, smoothly.
P1 The OP agrees that the Big Bang was a special miraculous creation by God
P2 The bible tells us this miraculous creation was accomplished not at one moment of time, but over multiple moments of time.
P3 The OP suggests that God only did the miraculous at the Big Bang Beginning, but restricted Himself to the Natural laws after that initial beginning.
P4 P3 is illogical as it affirms the miraculous in P1 and denies it in P2
P5 If the OP is true, then God would have done the initial creation 15 Billion years ago, and then sat around listening to an endless loop of the Jeopardy Tune for the last 14.99 billion years while He was waiting for the universe to unstretch itself, which is inherently illogical.
JOB 9:8 NKJV He alone spreads out the heavens, And treads on the waves of the sea;
JOB 37:18 NKJV With Him, have you spread out the skies, Strong as a cast metal mirror?
PSALM 104:2 NKJV Who cover Yourself with light as with a garment, Who stretch out the heavens like a curtain.
PSALM 146:6 NKJV Who made heaven and earth, The sea, and all that is in them; Who keeps truth forever,
ISAIAH 40:21-22 NKJV 21 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth? 22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
ISAIAH 42:5 NKJV Thus says God the Lord, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk on it:
ISAIAH 44:24 NKJV Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;
ISAIAH 45:12 NKJV I have made the earth, And created man on it. It was I- My hands that stretched out the heavens, And all their host I have commanded.
JEREMIAH 10:12 NKJV He has made the earth by His power, He has established the world by His wisdom, And has stretched out the heavens at His discretion.
JEREMIAH 51:15 NKJV He has made the earth by His power; He has established the world by His wisdom, And stretched out the heaven by His understanding.
ZECHARIAH 12:1 NKJV The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:
COLOSSIANS 1:16-17 NKJV For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
HEBREWS 1:2-3 NKJV 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged out sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
HEBREWS 11:3 NKJV By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

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