ElShamah - Reason & Science: Defending ID and the Christian Worldview
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
ElShamah - Reason & Science: Defending ID and the Christian Worldview

Otangelo Grasso: This is my library, where I collect information and present arguments developed by myself that lead, in my view, to the Christian faith, creationism, and Intelligent Design as the best explanation for the origin of the physical world.


You are not connected. Please login or register

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Otangelo


Admin

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account

Strongest objections are: geological survey shows no such result, human genetics show out of Africa not out of Middle East, Archeology shows no break in human history around the globe, genetics show no bottleneck of the human species to 8 individuals in that time frame-lowest human number ever was 30K, the heat problem, the mud problem, the problem with civilizations with writing exiting before the alleged flood continuing on, using their same language after the alleged Tower of Babel. If Babel were real, the old civilizations should have been wiped out & the new one have Babylonian culture. This didn't happen.

Introduction

Few biblical narratives have captured the imagination or sparked as much controversy as the story of Noah's flood. This cataclysmic event, described in the Book of Genesis, tells of a global deluge sent by God to cleanse the Earth of wickedness, sparing only Noah, his family, and the animals aboard the ark. For centuries, this account was accepted as literal history by many, but in recent times, it has become one of the most scrutinized and challenged stories in the Bible. The aim of this book is not to fan the flames of controversy, but to shed light on this narrative by examining it through the lens of modern scientific knowledge and the facts at our disposal. We will examine the evidence based on geology, archaeology, history, archaeology, and other relevant fields to assess the feasibility and historical context of a worldwide flood. At the same time, we will explore the cultural significance of flood myths across diverse civilizations and consider what these stories might tell us about our shared human experience.

Critics argue that several factors render the literal global flood story implausible: the lack of geological evidence for a worldwide inundation, the practical challenges of housing and caring for representatives of all animal species on a single vessel, the problem of heat generation from so many confined animals, the limited genetic diversity of the proposed survivors, and the difficulties in explaining current biogeography—the distribution of plants and animals around the world. They also raise questions about the logistics of gathering animals from distant continents and the mechanisms for repopulating the earth after the waters receded.

Supporters, on the other hand, ground their arguments in a multifaceted approach. They rely on the biblical text itself, carefully examining its language and context. They also point to geological evidence that may indicate large-scale catastrophic events in Earth's past, such as features in sedimentary strata and unusual geological formations. The fossil record, with its vast graveyards of rapidly buried organisms, is also evidence for the Flood. Additionally,  attention is given to studies in paleontology, biology, and genetics that suggest rapid diversification of species and post-flood repopulation events. Human migration patterns and the distribution of early civilizations are also scrutinized for clues that could corroborate the biblical narrative. By integrating these diverse lines of evidence, supporters seek to build a coherent case for the historicity of Noah's Flood and its profound impact on the physical and human landscape of our planet.

Our journey will take us from the pages of ancient manuscripts to the strata of the Earth itself. We will grapple with questions of biblical interpretation, the nature of myth and its relationship to history, and the complex interplay between faith and scientific inquiry. This investigation does not seek to undermine belief or to dismiss the profound religious significance of Noah's story. Instead, it aims to enrich our understanding by placing the narrative in its proper historical, cultural, and scientific context. By doing so, we may gain fresh insights into both the ancient world and our own. As we embark on this exploration, I invite readers from all backgrounds—skeptics and believers alike—to approach the evidence with an open mind. Let us set aside preconceptions and examine the Genesis flood account with intellectual honesty and rigor. In doing so, we may not only unravel some of the mysteries surrounding this ancient tale but also bridge the often troubled waters between science and faith.

The biblical account of the great catastrophe, called the Flood, begins in chapter 6, verse 5 and continues until the end of chapter 8, in the book of Genesis.

Due to the wickedness of man at that time, the Creator resolved to destroy all living beings on Earth. But so that humanity, as well as the animals, would not be completely destroyed, He gave instructions to Noah, a righteous man by God's standards, to build an Ark - a large rectangular box - of wood to preserve life on Earth. After the vessel was completed, with measurements God had given Noah, further instructions were given regarding food, the number, and types of animals that should be preserved. Then the order was given for Noah and his wife, as well as his three sons and their respective wives - 8 people in total - to enter the Ark.   Noah entered the Ark seven days before the Flood began - this occurred when he was 600 years old - on the 10th day of the second month (Genesis chapter 7, verse 11), and the Flood began on the 17th of the same month. The torrential rain that followed lasted 40 days (Genesis chapter 7, verse 12), and the waters rose for another 150 days, covering the earth, above the highest mountains (Genesis chapter 7, verse 24).

God sends a wind over the earth, and the waters begin to recede. In the seventh month, on the 17th day of the month, the Ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat (Genesis chapter 8, verse 4). The mountain tops appeared on the first day of the tenth month - almost three months later (Genesis chapter 8, verse 5). Forty days later, Noah sent out a raven (Genesis chapter 8, verse 6), and three times in a row, he released a dove, and in the 601st year of his life, on the twenty-seventh day of the second month - more than a year later - the earth was dry, and he left the Ark with his family and the animals (Genesis chapter 8, verses 14 to 22). The world and its environment were now different. God promised him that as long as the Earth lasts, there will be no other Flood to destroy it. And, as a symbol of that promise, the Rainbow began to shine in the sky for the first time (Genesis chapter 9, verses 13 to 19).

The Bible allows us to calculate the approximate age of the Earth following its creation by God. According to the Irish Archbishop James Ussher (1581-1656), this event occurred in the year 4004 B.C., a calculation he presented in his immense historical research work of 1,600 pages, written in Latin and published in 1600 A.D. An English translation of his book, titled *The Annals of the World*, was made in 1658, two years after his death. Recently, it was translated into modern English and republished in the United States in 2003, with 960 pages. A brief summary of Ussher's extensive research can be read here.

Similarly, it is possible to determine the date of the occurrence of the Flood according to the Bible. The Flood did not last only 40 days, as people commonly think, but 377 days, over a year! The misunderstanding about the duration of the biblical Flood likely arises from focusing only on the initial 40 days of rain mentioned in Genesis 7:12, while overlooking the full timeline provided in the account. While the torrential rain did last for 40 days and 40 nights (Genesis 7:12), the complete duration of the Flood itself, from the time it started until the earth was dry again, was much longer - approximately 377 days or a little over a year. 

Was the flood global, or local? 

Universal language: The text consistently uses universal terms like "all" and "every" to describe the extent of the flood. For example:

Genesis 6:17 - "to destroy all life under the heavens"
Genesis 7:19 - "all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered"
Genesis 7:21 - "Every living thing that moved on land perished"

This repetitive use of all-encompassing language strongly suggests a global event rather than a localized flood.

Specific measurements: Genesis 7:20 states that the waters rose "fifteen cubits" (about 22 feet) above the mountains. This precise measurement implies an actual, literal flood depth, not a metaphorical description.
Duration of the flood: The flood lasted for over a year (Genesis 7:11, 8:14). A local flood would not persist for such an extended period.
God's promise: In Genesis 9:11, God promises never to send such a flood again. If this were merely a local flood, it would contradict the numerous local floods that have occurred since.
Necessity of the ark: If the flood were local, there would be no need for an ark to preserve animal species. Noah could have simply migrated with the animals to non-flooded areas.
Mountain coverage: Genesis 7:19-20 explicitly states that all the high mountains were covered. This description is incompatible with a local flood scenario.
Destruction of all mankind: Genesis 7:21-23 describes the destruction of all humanity except those on the ark. A local flood would not account for this level of human extinction.
New Testament confirmation: Later biblical authors, such as Peter (2 Peter 3:6), refer to the flood as destroying the world of that time, supporting a global interpretation.
Lack of limiting language: The text provides no geographical limitations or qualifiers that would suggest a localized event.
Purpose of the flood: The stated purpose was to destroy all wickedness on the earth (Genesis 6:5-7). A local flood would not accomplish this goal.
Hebrew terminology: The Hebrew word "erets" used in the flood narrative can mean the entire earth, and its usage here, combined with universal qualifiers, supports a global interpretation.

This exegesis demonstrates that a straightforward, literal reading of the Genesis text strongly supports the interpretation of a global flood rather than a localized event. The consistent use of universal language, specific details, and the overall context of the narrative all point towards a worldwide catastrophe as the author's intended meaning.

List of evidence of a global flood

Geological Evidence

Continental shelves: Uniform continental shelves around the world that could indicate rapid erosion. The extensive and even nature of these shelves may be seen as evidence for a rapid, large-scale erosional event.
Drumlins and eskers: Geological formations suggesting large-scale water movement. These features are often associated with glacial activity but can also be interpreted as evidence of massive water flow.
Extensive clay deposits: Widespread deposits of kaolinite clay, which some argue requires catastrophic conditions to form. These deposits are interpreted as remnants of large, rapid sediment flows.
Folded rock layers: Sedimentary layers that appear bent without fracturing, indicating they were still soft when folded. This implies rapid deposition and folding before the sediments had time to harden.
Geomorphological Features: Large-scale landforms such as mesas, buttes, and extensive canyon systems are sometimes interpreted as having been formed by rapid erosion and sedimentation during a global flood.
Large-Scale Ripple Marks: Gigantic ripple marks found in sedimentary rock layers, indicative of large, fast-moving water currents.
Massive Gravel and Boulder Deposits: Large conglomerates of gravel and boulders found in various parts of the world suggest high-energy water flow capable of transporting significant amounts of material over long distances. These deposits are sometimes interpreted as remnants of a massive flood.
Megabreccias: Extremely large brecciated rock formations, consisting of broken and re-cemented fragments, are thought by some to be the result of catastrophic processes, consistent with the dynamics of a global flood.
Planation surfaces: Large, flat erosional features across different rock types. These surfaces are interpreted as evidence of widespread, rapid erosion.
Rapid mountain formation: Evidence suggesting some mountain ranges formed more quickly than conventional geology proposes. Rapid uplift could be associated with catastrophic tectonic activity during a global flood.
Seamounts and Guyots: Flat-topped underwater mountains (guyots) are thought by some to have been planed off by wave action at sea level before subsiding, which could be explained by a global flood.
Underwater canyons: Existence of large underwater canyons that appear to have been carved rapidly. The scale and features of these canyons suggest they were formed by large volumes of fast-moving water.

Sedimentary Evidence

Cross-Bedding: Extensive cross-bedding in sandstone formations. While often attributed to desert dunes or river deposits, some argue these features indicate large-scale water action.
Flat Gap Surfaces (Paraconformities): Extensive flat gaps between sedimentary rock layers that show no signs of erosion over supposed millions of years are argued to fit better with rapid deposition from a single, large-scale event.
Global Stratigraphic Correlation: The correlation of similar rock layers across different continents is seen as evidence for simultaneous deposition events, which some interpret as being caused by a global flood.
Lack of Bioturbation: Absence of extensive bioturbation (disruption of sediment by living organisms) in many sedimentary layers, suggesting rapid deposition that did not allow time for significant biological activity.
Paleocurrents: Indicators of water flow directions in sedimentary rocks that suggest continental-scale water movement. These patterns are interpreted as evidence of massive, directional water flow, consistent with a global flood.
Paleosols (Ancient Soils): The presence of what are interpreted as ancient soils within rock layers is used to argue for rapid burial and preservation, consistent with flood conditions.
Petrographic Evidence: Microscopic analysis of rock formations showing rapid sedimentation and minimal diagenesis (post-depositional changes) is used to argue for quick burial under flood conditions.
Rapid Clastic Dikes: Vertical sediment-filled fractures (clastic dikes) in sedimentary layers, suggesting rapid injection of sediments under high pressure, consistent with catastrophic flooding.
Rapidly Deposited Sedimentary Sequences: Sequences of sedimentary rock that show rapid succession without evidence of significant time gaps between layers.
Sedimentary Rock Sequences with Rapid Deposition Indicators: Sedimentary rock layers that show little to no evidence of long-term erosion between layers suggest rapid, continuous deposition. This is seen by some as indicative of a large-scale flood event.
Similarities in rock strata: Analogous rock layers across continents. The matching layers are seen as supporting the idea of a single, widespread depositional event.
Thick, Homogeneous Sediment Layers: Uniformly thick sediment layers over large areas without evidence of significant erosion or deposition over long timescales.
Turbidites: Layers of sediment deposited by underwater landslides (turbidity currents) are found globally and are often cited as evidence for rapid sedimentation processes that could be linked to a global flood.
Widespread sedimentary layers: Extensive sedimentary rock layers covering vast areas across continents. These layers suggest deposition over a large region, which some interpret as evidence for a worldwide flood event.

Fossil Evidence

Dinosaur graveyards: Large collections of dinosaur fossils in certain locations. These mass burial sites suggest rapid, catastrophic events leading to the simultaneous death and burial of large numbers of animals.
Fossilized Marine Life in Unexpected Locations: Fossils of marine organisms found far inland and at high altitudes, including the interiors of continents, are argued to support the idea that these areas were once submerged under ocean water.
Gaps in the fossil record: Abrupt appearances of new species in the fossil record. These gaps are sometimes interpreted as evidence of sudden creation events rather than gradual evolution.
Marine fossils on mountains: Presence of marine fossils at high elevations, including the tops of major mountain ranges. This finding is seen by some as indicative of ocean waters once covering these high places, consistent with a global flood.
Massive Shell Beds: Extensive beds of fossilized shells, such as the Coquina rock formations, suggesting rapid burial and high-energy water conditions.
Nautiloid fossils: Large deposits of nautiloid fossils in the Grand Canyon area. The concentration and orientation of these fossils suggest they were rapidly buried by sediment-laden water.
Polystrate fossils: Fossils, particularly trees, that extend through multiple rock layers. These fossils challenge the notion of slow sedimentary deposition over millions of years and suggest rapid sedimentation.
Rapid fossil formation: Well-preserved fossils suggesting quick burial in sediment. Rapid burial is necessary to protect organisms from decay and scavenging, supporting the idea of a sudden, catastrophic event.
Rapidly Buried Forests: Fossilized forests buried in situ, with tree trunks penetrating multiple strata layers, indicating rapid burial.

Geological Deposits

Carbonate Platforms: Large, flat-topped carbonate platforms that some interpret as having formed rapidly underwater.
Deep-Sea Sediment Cores: Sediment cores from the deep sea that show rapid deposition of sediments, potentially from floodwaters.
Erratic Boulders: Large boulders, known as glacial erratics, found far from their source areas. While typically attributed to glacial activity, some suggest rapid transport by floodwaters.
Large-Scale Salt Deposits: Thick, widespread salt deposits, such as those in the Gulf of Mexico and the Mediterranean Basin. Some argue these formed rapidly from the evaporation of floodwaters.
Massive Submarine Landslides: Evidence of large-scale submarine landslides, known as mass transport deposits, around the world's continental margins. These suggest rapid, large-volume sediment movement that some attribute to a global flood.
Megatsunami Deposits: Evidence of ancient megatsunamis, such as large-scale sediment deposits and massive boulders transported by water, suggesting catastrophic wave action.
Vast Chalk Deposits: Extensive chalk deposits, such as those forming the White Cliffs of Dover, found globally. These deposits, composed primarily of microscopic marine organisms, are argued to have been laid down rapidly by a global flood.
Widespread coal seams: Extensive coal deposits found across continents, suggesting large-scale burial of vegetation. This points to massive, rapid burial of plant material, which some attribute to a global flood.
Widespread volcanism: Evidence of extensive volcanic activity in the past. Large-scale volcanism is seen as consistent with the catastrophic processes associated with a global flood.
Widespread Ash Layers: Extensive volcanic ash layers found within sedimentary sequences, suggesting widespread volcanic activity during the flood.

Other Evidence

Catastrophically Formed Features: Landforms such as the Channeled Scablands in Washington state, which some interpret as formed by catastrophic flooding.
Extensive Tectonic Plate Movements: Evidence of rapid and extensive tectonic activity, such as the splitting and drifting of continents, is sometimes linked to catastrophic plate movements associated with a global flood scenario.
Ice Core Data: Some researchers interpret anomalies in ice core data, such as abrupt shifts in isotope ratios, as evidence of rapid climatic changes that could be linked to a global flood event.
Mammoth remains: Frozen mammoths in Siberia and Alaska, suggesting rapid freezing. The state of preservation implies a sudden, drastic change in climate, consistent with a catastrophic event.
Mass Extinction Events: Sudden, global-scale mass extinction events in the fossil record are sometimes attributed to catastrophic environmental changes, which proponents of the global flood hypothesis link to a worldwide deluge.
Oxygen Isotope Anomalies: Sudden shifts in oxygen isotope ratios in marine sediments, indicating rapid changes in water temperature and composition, possibly due to a flood.
Widespread flood legends: Flood stories in many cultures around the world. The prevalence of these legends is seen by some as a collective memory of a real, global flood event.

Timeline of the Flood

1. Beginning: The Flood commenced on the 17th day of the 2nd month in Noah's 600th year (Genesis 7:11).
2. Initial Deluge: Torrential rain and the breaking up of the "fountains of the great deep" lasted 40 days and 40 nights (Genesis 7:12).
3. Waters Prevail: The floodwaters rose and prevailed on the earth for 150 days (Genesis 7:24).
4. Ark Rests: The Ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat on the 17th day of the 7th month (Genesis 8:4).
5. Mountains Become Visible: The tops of the mountains were seen on the 1st day of the 10th month (Genesis 8:5).
6. Earth Dries: By the 1st day of the 1st month of Noah's 601st year, the surface of the ground had dried (Genesis 8:13).
7. Complete Restoration: The earth was completely dry by the 27th day of the 2nd month of Noah's 601st year (Genesis 8:14).

The entire duration of the Flood event, from its onset to the earth being completely dry, spans approximately 377 days (1 year and 17 days), a fact often overlooked by those who mistakenly consider it a mere 40-day event.
So, while the initial rain was 40 days and nights, the entire duration from the start of the Flood until the earth was dry again was approximately 377 days (40 days of rain + 150 days of prevailing waters + 7 months until the mountains appeared + 2 months and 27 days until the earth was dry). The misunderstanding likely stems from focusing only on the 40 days of rain mentioned in Genesis 7:12, without considering the full timeline provided in the rest of the narrative, which clearly indicates a much longer duration for the complete Flood event.

According to the Bible (Genesis: chapter 5), this event occurred 1,656 years after the Earth was created and 2,348 years before the birth of Christ. Considering the creation date calculated by James Ussher (1581-1656) as 4004 B.C., and subtracting 1656 from 4004, we arrive at 2348 B.C. James Ussher used the Masoretic text to make his calculations. This period is obtained by adding the ages of Adam's descendants, including Adam himself, at the time they had their first child. It is important to note that these calculations are based on the Bible version that uses the Hebrew text as its source, specifically the Masoretic version, which is the official version for the Tanakh in modern Judaism and for current Catholic and Protestant versions of the Old Testament.

On the other hand, there is also the Greek version of the Bible, the Septuagint, or the LXX. This Greek translation of the original Hebrew text was composed in the 3rd century B.C. by Jewish scholars in the Egyptian metropolis of Alexandria. Seventy-two scribes are said to have worked on it, hence the name Septuagint (=70) or LXX. The Septuagint presents a higher divergence compared to the Masoretic version concerning the birth dates of the first sons of the patriarchs before the Flood, as shown in the following table. It places the creation of the Earth at 5490 B.C., not 4004 B.C., as obtained in the Masoretic version. Consequently, the date of the Flood also changes to 3228 B.C. (2348 + 880 = 3228 years), and 2,242 years after the creation of Adam, including an additional 100 years until the Flood. This results in a difference of 880 years more than 2348 B.C. (Ussher's calculation). Regarding the age of the Earth, this difference amounts to 1,486 years more.

In this case, the age of the Earth in 2018 A.D., according to the Jewish calendar, is 6,014 years in the Masoretic version, which the Israeli people use. Calculated by the Septuagint version, the age of the Earth reaches 7,480 years after the creation of its habitable environment. It is important to emphasize that the planetary body itself is much older than this.

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Transl21

Given the discrepancies between the Masoretic Text and the Greek text of the Septuagint, deciding on the date of the Flood might seem like a matter of personal preference. However, there is a clear timeframe within which it occurred, between 2348 B.C. and 3228 B.C. The Septuagint seems to be correct in this aspect. This is partly due to findings that suggest the Masoretic Text was deliberately altered, as we will see referenced later.

Alexander Vom Stein discusses these discrepancies, stating:

> Unfortunately, there are quite significant differences between the numerical data in the two most important manuscripts of the Old Testament—the Hebrew Masoretic Text and the Greek Septuagint. While the two sources don't present major differences overall, there is a significant divergence in the genealogical data contained in Genesis 5 and 11. Generally, more credibility is given to the Masoretic text because its transmission and revision were done with incredible precision and care. However, when it comes to the years, some tend to trust the Septuagint more.

A definitive decision can only be made if the original texts of the Pentateuch, written by Moses and stored alongside the Ark of the Covenant as per his instructions, are found. The Ark was lost during the Babylonian invasion of Jerusalem in 586 B.C. by King Nebuchadnezzar. If these books were found, there would be no doubt about the dates recorded by Moses.

Other occurrences also allow for establishing an upper limit or a cutoff date for the Flood, which will be present in the following sections.

The Beginning of the Mayan Calendar

Few peoples in the world have a calendar system initiated since their origin as a people. The case of the Maya is one of those examples, whose calendar begins with the destruction of a previous world and the creation of the Mayan people. According to the Mayan calendar, the beginning of the current era occurred on August 11, 3114 BC, according to the proleptic Gregorian calendar, or on September 6, 3113 BC, according to the Julian calendar. These correlations between the Maya long count and Western calendars are accepted by "the vast majority of Maya researchers (known as the GMT correlation)."

The dates for the beginning of the current era according to the Mayan calendar are known through the interpretation of their calendar systems and historical records inscribed on monuments and codices. The Maya had several interrelated calendar cycles, with the most significant being the Long Count calendar. This was a linear calendar that tracked days from a fixed starting point in the distant past. The correlation between the Mayan Long Count and the Western Gregorian/Julian calendars was achieved through careful analysis of dated historical events recorded in both Mayan and European sources.

Key evidence comes from:

1) Mayan inscriptions: Carved stone monuments and inscriptions found at archaeological sites like Quiriguá, Copán, and Palenque record specific dates in the Long Count calendar alongside descriptions of historical events.
2) Colonial-era documents: Early Spanish colonizers and missionaries, like Diego de Landa and Bishop Nuñez de la Vega, recorded information about the Mayan calendars and their correlation to the Julian calendar used by the Spanish.
3) Dresden Codex Venus Tables: This Mayan codex contains detailed astronomical observations, including tables tracking the cycles of Venus, which can be correlated to known astronomical events.

By cross-referencing these sources, scholars like J. Eric S. Thompson, Floyd Lounsbury, and others in the 20th century were able to establish the correlation constants that link the Mayan Long Count to the Julian and Gregorian calendar dates. While there are some minor disagreements, the most widely accepted correlation places the Mayan calendar start date on August 11, 3114 BC (Gregorian) or September 6, 3113 BC (Julian), marking the mythical creation of the current world according to Mayan cosmology.

Thus, we have the myth of the creation of the Mayan people, preceded by the destruction of a previous world and civilization by the Mayan gods. This myth is compatible with the destruction of the previous civilization and world by the gods, similar to what the Flood did, as narrated in the Bible, carried out by God. The initial date of the Mayan calendar, 3114 BC, falls within the minimum and maximum dates obtained from calculations made using the Masoretic text and the Septuagint, as being the date of the Flood, between 2348 BC and 3228 BC, approaching closer to the limit date of the Septuagint text. Other civilizations that still exist also have calendars dating back to their foundations, such as the Chinese civilization, for example.

The Chinese calendar

The Chinese calendar is one of the oldest chronological records known, dating back over 4,700 years. In 2015 AD, it corresponds to the year 4713 of the Chinese calendar, placing its inception around 2698 BC.  This early date for the beginning of the Chinese calendar falls between the dates given in the Masoretic text and the Septuagint for the Great Flood, which range from around 2348 BC to 3228 BC.

The Liangzhu Culture - China's Oldest Known Dynasty

In December 2007, archaeologists announced the discovery of what may be the oldest capital city of China's earliest known dynasty. The ancient city ruins were found in Zhejiang province in eastern China. The Liangzhu culture, to which these city remains belong, existed from around 3400 BC to 2250 BC according to archaeologists. The age of the discovered city itself dates back 3300-2000 BC, aligning with the approximate timeframe given for the Great Flood in ancient texts. Like the ancient Egyptian civilization, the incredible antiquity of China's earliest dynasties provides another data point suggesting an upper bound for when the Great Flood may have occurred in that region of the world. The Liangzhu culture predates the conventional dates given for the Flood by over a millennium.

Chinese Calendar: The date 2698 BC is often associated with the reign of the Yellow Emperor, a mythological figure in Chinese history, and is traditionally considered the starting point of the Chinese calendar.
Liangzhu Culture: Recent studies have confirmed that the Liangzhu culture thrived around 3300-2300 BC. The city ruins discovered in Zhejiang province are particularly significant because they reveal advanced urban planning and water management systems that indicate a sophisticated and enduring society.
Comparison with Biblical Dates: The dates given for the Great Flood according to the Masoretic text (2348 BC) and the Septuagint (3228 BC) highlight a significant overlap with the early periods of human civilization, but the archaeological evidence from the Liangzhu culture and other early civilizations like Mesopotamia and Egypt suggests continuous human habitation and development well before and after these proposed dates for the Flood.
While these historical and archaeological records do not provide direct evidence for the Great Flood, they do offer a broader context for understanding the timelines of ancient civilizations.

The Ancient Egyptian Civilization and Its Bearing on Dating the Great Flood

The ancient Egyptian civilization is one of the oldest in the world, providing indirect evidence that can help establish an upper bound for when the Great Flood may have occurred. Egypt's pre-dynastic period dates back to around 3100 BC, with some evidence suggesting human habitation as early as 4000 BC. The Sheikh Muftah culture, which developed between 3800-2900 BC according to radiocarbon dating estimates, represents one of the earliest complex societies in the Nile Valley region. The First Dynasty of united Egyptian kings is conventionally dated to have begun around 3200 BC and lasted until 2778 BC, though these dates can vary slightly by source. However, more recent radiocarbon dating of 211 samples of ancient Egyptian artifacts, plant remains, textiles and other materials allowed scientists to more precisely date the beginning of the Old Kingdom and the reign of Djoser to between 2691-2525 BC. This 3200 BC estimate for the start of Egypt's First Dynasty falls close to the 3228 BC date given in the Septuagint for the Great Flood. The older, pre-dynastic dates extending past 4000 BC are generally less certain, as they rely heavily on radiocarbon dating assumptions that become less reliable the further back in time they attempt to date. While radiocarbon has limitations, especially for very ancient eras, the weight of archaeological evidence from Egyptian civilization does seem to constrain the possible timing of the Great Flood in that region to no later than around 3200 BC at the absolute oldest. More conservative estimates would place it even earlier than this upper bound date. So the incredible antiquity of Egyptian culture, one of the oldest civilizations known, corroborates the Biblical timeframe and suggests the Flood was an event that took place well before the rise of the first dynastic Pharaohs and the Old Kingdom around 2700-2500 BC. Reconciling Egypt's archeological record with the Biblical chronology remains an active area of research and debate.

The Construction Date of the Great Pyramid

Another indirect line of evidence that can shed light on constraining the date of the Great Flood comes from one of the most renowned ancient constructions - the Great Pyramid of Giza, built as a tomb for the 4th Dynasty Pharaoh Khufu. The conventional dating assigns Khufu's reign to around 2551-2528 BC in the 26th century BC. Significantly, this timeframe falls squarely within the broader range of dates proposed for the Great Flood based on calculations from the Masoretic text and Septuagint manuscripts (around 2348 BC to 3228 BC).

An intriguing aspect of the three major pyramids at Giza is that their positioning on the plateau mimics the three stars in the belt of the constellation Orion, the Hunter. This constellation was associated with the Egyptian god Osiris in that era. Seeking to test this pyramid/Orion correlation astronomically, researchers have analyzed the alignments and galleries within the Great Pyramid itself. If their orientations were merely coincidental, they would not replicate consistently. However, multiple alignments of chambers and passages converge on astronomically significant targets around 2450 BC. For example, the southern shaft of the King's Chamber pointed toward the star Al Nitak (Zeta Orionis) circa 2450 BC. Its northern shaft aligned with Thuban (Alpha Draconis) during the same era. The southern shaft of the smaller Queen's Chamber aimed at Sirius, associated with the goddess Isis, while its northern shaft targeted the star Kochab in Ursa Minor, both around 2450 BC. While this date of 2450 BC is a century earlier than Khufu's conventional reign, it suggests the Great Pyramid incorporated sophisticated astronomical alignments locked in time. Its construction appears tied to the precessional cycle and alignments only visible from the Giza plateau at that point in history. This lends weight to the view that the Great Pyramid drew upon advanced knowledge from a precedent civilization that predated the 4th Dynasty by some centuries. In turn, its apparent astronomically-derived construction date of circa 2450 BC conforms with the archaeological evidence pinpointing the Great Flood to the 3rd millennium BC, before the rise of Egypt's ancient dynastic kingdoms.

The Great Pyramid's Astronomical Alignments

Further evidence suggesting an older construction date for the Great Pyramid comes from its precise astronomical alignments and the symbolic connections to Egyptian cosmology. One key alignment allowed the bright star Sirius to shine directly down the pyramid's descending southern passage at the moment it crossed the meridian, heralding the new Egyptian year and the annual Nile flood cycle. Similarly, light from the then Pole Star entered through northern shafts. Over 30 years ago, I came across a concise astronomy book that analyzed the Great Pyramid's orientation to deduce its construction date astronomically:

"The main corridor of the Great Pyramid is aligned toward the position of the celestial north pole at the time it was built. Due to the Earth's precessional wobble, the north celestial pole - the point directly overhead the Earth's axis - traces a circular path over 26,000 years. The star closest to this moving pole position is known as the 'Pole Star.' Today it is Polaris in Ursa Minor, but 4,500 years ago, according to the Pyramid's orientation, it was the star Thuban in Draco."

Calculating backward from 1970 when the book was published, this analysis dated the Great Pyramid's construction to around 2530 BC - well within the broader window for the Great Flood derived from Biblical chronologies.

Not all astronomical date estimates for the Great Pyramid align precisely, due to varying methods and degree of precision. An astronomically-derived date carries more weight for the pyramid's true age than conventional archaeological dates assigning it to the 4th Dynasty under Khufu's reign around 2500 BC. The layout of the three major pyramids at Giza mimicking the three stars of Orion's Belt, associated with the Egyptian god Osiris, has been called the Orion Correlation Theory. While rejected by most Egyptologists as it would require redating established dynastic chronologies, this symbolic alignment between pyramids and constellations hints at a sophisticated astronomical understanding encoded into these monumental constructions.

Whether one interprets the evidence literally or metaphorically, the remarkable celestial alignments incorporated into the design and orientation of the Great Pyramid suggest its origins trace back well before the historical dating of the 4th Dynasty to a precedent civilization with advanced astronomical knowledge and capabilities. This lends credence to the archaeological and geological evidence indicating the Great Flood was an event that had likely already occurred and reshaped the region over a millennium prior to the historical period of the Old Kingdom pharaohs.

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Orion-10

The image illustrates the proposed astronomical alignments between the orientations and shafts of the Great Pyramid of Giza and certain prominent stars like Sirius, the former pole star Thuban/Alpha Draconis, and the stars depicting Orion's Belt. While the specific "Orion Correlation Theory" that claims these alignments were intentionally encoded by the pyramid's ancient designers remains a controversial hypothesis largely dismissed by mainstream Egyptologists, the astronomical alignments themselves are factual observations. Through precise surveying and calculations, researchers have verified that certain interior passages in the Great Pyramid were oriented to track stars like Sirius, Thuban, and stars of Orion at specific epochs, likely around 2500-2400 BCE based on most analyses. This encoded astronomical knowledge reflects an advanced understanding of the precessional cycle and star movements over long timescales. So while the interpretive claims of the Orion Correlation Theory are rejected by most academics, the underlying data showing remarkable stellar alignments built into the pyramid's architecture is an established finding in archaeoastronomy. It provides evidence of the incredible astronomical insights possessed by the pyramid's architects, whoever they may have been. The image simply depicts some of those mapped alignments without necessarily endorsing any particular theory about their reasoning or purpose.

The Bristlecone Pines: Methuselah and the Oldest Trees

In 1964, a bristlecone pine tree named "Prometheus" was cut down for research purposes in the Wheeler Peak area of eastern Nevada, USA. Dendrochronological analysis revealed this particular bristlecone was an astonishing 4,862 years old at the time it was felled. This means the Prometheus tree's germination has been dated to around 2,892 BC, over 200 years before the oldest known giant sequoia called Methuselah, which germinated around 2,833 BC.

While the Prometheus bristlecone is one of the oldest accurately dated non-clonal organisms on Earth, its age of nearly 5,000 years still falls within the most recent proposed timeframe for the Biblical Flood based on calculations using the Septuagint manuscript's chronology, which dates the Deluge to around 3,200 BC. So like the ancient giant sequoias, while tremendously old, the maximum age of the oldest bristlecone pines does not explicitly preclude the possibility of a global flood occurring sometime in the 3rd millennium BC, as suggested by certain biblical chronologies.

Interpretations of fossils and geological layers have changed over time

James Hutton (1726-1797): Despite being considered the father of uniformitarianism, Hutton initially did not completely reject the idea of a global flood. However, as he developed his theories on gradual geological processes, he moved away from the idea of single global catastrophes. Hutton argued that the same processes we see today (erosion, sedimentation, etc.) operated in the past, but he didn't necessarily deny large-scale events.

Sir Charles Lyell (1797-1875): Lyell is often associated with the total rejection of catastrophism, but his position was more nuanced. In the early years of his career, Lyell accepted the possibility of a global flood, but saw it as one of many catastrophic events throughout Earth's history. Over time, he emphasized more the gradual, uniform processes in geology, but he didn't completely dismiss the occurrence of major events.

Charles Darwin (1809-1882): Darwin was heavily influenced by Lyell's work, and he carried Lyell's "Principles of Geology" on his voyage on the Beagle. While Darwin is best known for his theory of evolution, which doesn't require a global flood, he was aware of the geological debates of his time. In his early career, he was open to catastrophic events but later focused more on gradual changes.

These figures were working at a time when geological and biological sciences were rapidly developing. Their views often evolved over their careers as new evidence came to light. While they all contributed to moving away from a strictly biblical interpretation of Earth's history towards more naturalistic explanations, they didn't necessarily start their careers rejecting all aspects of the biblical narrative outright. The shift from catastrophism to uniformitarianism was gradual, and even today, geologists recognize that Earth's history includes both gradual changes and catastrophic events (though not necessarily global in scale). The modern view is more of a synthesis, acknowledging that both types of processes have shaped our planet. While these scientists are known for developing theories that eventually led away from the idea of a single, worldwide flood as the primary explanation for geological features and fossils, their personal beliefs and early work often included considerations of biblical events. The complete separation of geology from flood geology was a gradual process that took place over several generations of scientists.

The geologic time scale

The geologic time scale, also known as the geological time scale (GTS), is a framework used to represent and organize Earth's extensive history based on the rock record. It is a chronological dating system that employs two key approaches: chronostratigraphy and geochronology. Chronostratigraphy involves relating rock strata to specific time periods, while geochronology is a branch of geology dedicated to determining the age of rocks through various scientific methods. The geologic time scale is a crucial tool for Earth scientists, including geologists, paleontologists, geophysicists, geochemists, and paleoclimatologists, as it enables them to establish the timing and relationships of events that have shaped our planet's history. This time scale has been developed through meticulous study of rock layers, their relationships, and identifying characteristics such as lithologies (rock types), paleomagnetic properties, and fossils. The responsibility of defining standardized international units of geologic time falls under the purview of the International Commission on Stratigraphy (ICS), a constituent body of the International Union of Geological Sciences (IUGS). The primary objective of the ICS is to precisely define global chronostratigraphic units that make up the International Chronostratigraphic Chart (ICC), which is used to delineate divisions of geologic time. These chronostratigraphic divisions, in turn, form the basis for defining geochronologic units, providing a comprehensive framework for understanding Earth's history. Link 

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Geolog10

The geological timescale relies on several key presuppositions and assumptions for dating rock layers and events in Earth's history. The principle of uniformitarianism assumes that the same natural laws and processes that operate in the present have been constant over geological time. This presupposition is the foundation on which scientists extrapolate present-day observations and processes to interpret the geological record. Radiometric dating assumptions: Radiometric dating techniques, which are widely used to determine the ages of rocks, rely on several assumptions, including:

   a. Constant decay rates: The assumption that radioactive decay rates have remained constant throughout Earth's history.
   b. Initial conditions: Assumptions about the initial concentrations of parent and daughter isotopes in the rock sample at the time of formation.
   c. Closed system: The assumption that the rock system has remained closed, with no loss or gain of parent or daughter isotopes, except through radioactive decay.

The geological timescale is partially based on the principle of fossil succession, which assumes that different fossil organisms succeeded one another in a specific order over time. This presupposition allows the relative dating of rock layers based on the types of fossils they contain. The interpretation of sedimentary processes, such as deposition, erosion, and preservation, plays a crucial role in establishing the geological timescale. Assumptions are made about the rates and mechanisms of these processes, which can influence age estimations. The geological timescale incorporates the record of geomagnetic reversals, which are changes in the Earth's magnetic field polarity over time. Assumptions are made about the regularity and timing of these reversals, which are used as chronological markers. The construction of the geological timescale relies on stratigraphic principles, such as the law of superposition (older rocks are found below younger rocks) and the principle of lateral continuity (rock layers were originally continuous over large areas). These principles involve assumptions about the deposition and preservation of rock layers.
While these presuppositions and assumptions are widely accepted within the scientific community, they are subject to ongoing evaluation and refinement as new data and techniques become available.

While the presuppositions and assumptions used in establishing the geological timescale are widely accepted, there are several critical problems and paradoxes that are often overlooked or not adequately addressed. Here are some of the major issues:

Problems with an Old Earth

Faint Young Sun Paradox

A major challenge in understanding the early Earth's climate and habitability arises from the faint young sun paradox. This paradox stems from the fact that billions of years ago, the sun was much dimmer and emitted significantly less energy compared to modern levels. Stellar models indicate the sun's luminosity was around 25-30% lower when the Earth formed 4.5 billion years ago.  With such reduced solar inputs, basic calculations suggest the Earth should have been frozen solid, with a global mean temperature below the freezing point of water. This is difficult to reconcile with the robust geological evidence that substantial liquid water existed on the early Earth's surface, which is considered an essential requirement for the origin and evolution of life. Several hypotheses have been proposed to resolve this paradox within conventional geological timescales of billions of years, but each faces significant challenges:

Enhanced greenhouse effect: For the early Earth to remain warm enough for liquid water, it must have had an incredibly dense greenhouse atmosphere with high concentrations of gases like carbon dioxide, methane, or ammonia. However, high CO2 levels acidify the oceans, methane is broken down rapidly by UV radiation, and ammonia inhibits photosynthesis.
Lower albedo: A lower albedo or reflectivity, perhaps due to more cloud cover, could have allowed more solar energy to be absorbed. But this effect appears insufficient on its own.
Higher compression: The young Earth may have been more compressed initially, retaining more internal heat. But this stored heat would have radiated away rapidly.
Higher rotation rate: A faster rotation rate could have circulated more internal heat. But this effect also dissipates quickly.  

Despite decades of study, no fully convincing solution has emerged that can realistically explain a temperate early Earth conducive to life within the framework of billions of years of geological time and a steadily brightening sun. Alternative hypotheses involving a younger Earth age or different solar evolution models remain possibilities to be explored. The faint young sun paradox fundamentally challenges our understanding of how early Earth remained habitable for the development and sustenance of life over immense timescales. Resolving this paradox is crucial for reconstructing our planet's ancient climatic conditions and the environments in which life first emerged.

Ultraviolet (UV) and Vacuum Ultraviolet (VUV) Radiation Problem

The Ultraviolet (UV) and Vacuum Ultraviolet (VUV) radiation problem poses a significant challenge to the conventional understanding of the early Earth's environment and the evolution of life. In the absence of a protective ozone layer, the Earth's surface would have been exposed to intense levels of UV and VUV radiation from the Sun, which would have been detrimental to the development and survival of most life forms as we know them today.

Inhibition of Surface Life: The high levels of UV and VUV radiation would have been lethal to most surface-dwelling organisms due to the ionizing and mutagenic effects of this radiation on biological molecules such as DNA, proteins, and lipids. This would have effectively prevented the emergence and evolution of complex life forms on the Earth's surface over billions of years.
Photosynthesis and Oxygen Production: The evolution of photosynthesis, a crucial process that produces oxygen as a byproduct, would have been severely hindered by the intense UV and VUV radiation. Photosynthetic organisms rely on specific wavelengths of light for their energy production, and the high levels of damaging radiation would have disrupted this process, making it unlikely for photosynthesis to evolve and thrive on the Earth's surface.
Deep-vent environments, such as hydrothermal vents, have been proposed as potential refuges for the early evolution of life. However, the conditions in these environments are not conducive to the evolution of photosynthesis, as they lack the necessary light energy and the presence of water limits the availability of carbon dioxide for fixation. The transition from the Wood-Ljungdahl pathway (a carbon fixation process) to the Calvin cycle (the primary carbon fixation pathway used in photosynthesis) would have been highly improbable under such harsh radiation conditions. This transition requires a complex reconfiguration of metabolic pathways and the evolution of specialized enzymes and cofactors, which would have been challenging in the presence of high levels of mutagenic radiation.
Oxygen Accumulation: The intense UV and VUV radiation would have also prevented the accumulation of oxygen in the atmosphere over hundreds of millions of years. Oxygen is highly reactive and would have been quickly consumed by chemical reactions and interactions with the Earth's surface and atmosphere under such intense radiation conditions.
Evolution of the Oxygen-Evolving Complex: The evolution of the oxygen-evolving complex (OEC), a crucial component of the photosynthetic machinery responsible for water oxidation and oxygen production, is considered an irreducibly complex process. The formation of this complex system, involving multiple proteins and cofactors, would have been highly unlikely under the mutagenic effects of intense UV and VUV radiation. The oxygen-evolving complex (OEC) is considered an irreducibly complex system because it relies on the coordination of multiple essential components, each of which is indispensable for its function, and none of which would confer any evolutionary advantage on its own or in partial configurations. The OEC comprises three protein subunits: D1, D2, and CP43. These proteins are specifically tailored and folded to form the catalytic core of the OEC. Without any one of these three proteins, the complex would be non-functional and unable to catalyze the water-splitting reaction that produces oxygen. At the heart of the OEC is a highly complex manganese-calcium (Mn4CaO5) cluster, which serves as the catalytic site for water oxidation. This cluster is composed of four manganese atoms, one calcium atom, and five oxygen atoms arranged in a specific geometric configuration. The precise arrangement and coordination of these atoms are crucial for the redox chemistry involved in water splitting. The individual protein subunits and the manganese-calcium cluster, on their own or in partial configurations, would not confer any selective advantage or functionality to the organism. They are solely specialized for their role in the OEC and have no known alternative functions or roles in other biochemical processes that could have facilitated their gradual evolution. The OEC also requires the presence of various cofactors, including chloride ions and specific lipids, for its proper assembly and function. One of the critical cofactors is a manganese-containing cofactor, whose biosynthesis involves a complex and highly specific pathway involving multiple enzymes and import proteins. The manganese atoms in the catalytic cluster are derived from imported manganese ions, which require specialized membrane transport proteins to facilitate their uptake and incorporation into the OEC. These import proteins are specific to manganese and other rare earth atoms and serve no other known function in the organism. The irreducible complexity of the OEC arises from the interdependence and indispensability of all these components.

The removal or absence of any one of these components would render the entire system non-functional, and there is no known stepwise evolutionary pathway that could have gradually assembled this complex system while conferring selective advantages at intermediate stages. This irreducible complexity poses a significant challenge to the conventional understanding of the evolution of photosynthesis and oxygen production, as it seems highly improbable for such a intricate and interdependent system to have arisen gradually through random mutations and natural selection, especially under the mutagenic effects of intense UV and VUV radiation in the early Earth's environment. The OEC serves as a prime example of a biochemical system that appears to be irreducibly complex, highlighting the limitations of the current evolutionary framework in explaining the origin and development of such intricate molecular machines. This observation lends support to alternative models or perspectives that may better account for the existence of such complex systems in living organisms. The OEC is subjected to intense oxidative stress due to the high-energy chemistry involved in water oxidation and oxygen production. This stress can lead to the degradation and inactivation of the protein subunits, especially the D1 subunit, which bears the brunt of the oxidative damage. To maintain the functionality of the OEC and ensure continuous oxygen production, there is a complex mechanism in place to replace the damaged subunits with newly synthesized ones. This process involves a highly coordinated and regulated repair cycle that is tightly coupled with the overall photosynthetic machinery.



Last edited by Otangelo on Thu Jun 20, 2024 2:10 pm; edited 9 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin

The replacement of damaged OEC subunits requires the continuous synthesis of new copies of the D1, D2, and CP43 proteins, as well as the assembly of these subunits into the correct conformation and integration into the OEC structure. Specific proteases and chaperone proteins are involved in the disassembly and removal of the damaged subunits from the OEC, ensuring that the repair process can proceed. The repair cycle is linked in a specific way to the overall photosynthetic machinery, with the replacement of subunits occurring in coordination with the light-driven electron transport chain and other regulatory mechanisms. The synthesis, assembly, and integration of new OEC subunits require a significant investment of energy and resources by the organism, further underscoring the complexity of this process. Without this complex repair mechanism, the OEC would quickly become inactivated due to the accumulation of damaged subunits, leading to the cessation of oxygen production and, ultimately, the failure of the entire photosynthetic process. The fact that the OEC requires not only the initial assembly of its components but also a dedicated repair cycle to replace damaged subunits adds another layer of irreducible complexity to this system. The removal or disruption of any part of this repair mechanism would render the entire OEC non-functional, further highlighting the challenges in explaining the gradual evolution of such a complex and interdependent system through random mutations and natural selection. This additional aspect of irreducible complexity in the OEC reinforces the argument that alternative models or perspectives may be required to better account for the existence and maintenance of such intricate molecular machines in living organisms.

The oxygen-evolving complex (OEC) does not function in isolation but is integrated with other components of the photosynthetic machinery, specifically the Photosystem II (PSII) complex and the associated light-harvesting antenna complexes. This interdependence with other systems further compounds the irreducible complexity of the OEC. The OEC is an integral part of the PSII complex, located on the lumenal side of the thylakoid membrane. The PSII complex is responsible for the initial light-driven charge separation and electron transfer reactions that ultimately provide the oxidizing power for the OEC to catalyze water oxidation. Within the PSII complex, the OEC is positioned in close proximity to the specialized reaction center chlorophyll molecules (P680). These chlorophyll molecules initiate the charge separation process, and the resulting oxidizing equivalent is transferred to the OEC, enabling it to extract electrons from water molecules. The light-harvesting antenna complexes, composed of pigment-protein complexes like the LHCII, are responsible for capturing light energy and transferring it to the reaction centers of PSII. Without the efficient energy transfer from these antenna complexes, the OEC would not receive the necessary excitation energy to drive the water-splitting reaction. The oxygen-evolving process by the OEC is intimately linked to the downstream electron transport chain, which ultimately leads to the generation of ATP and NADPH, the energy carriers required for carbon fixation and other cellular processes.

The OEC's function is entirely dependent on the proper assembly and coordination of these various components within the photosynthetic machinery. The removal or disruption of any of these interdependent systems would render the OEC non-functional, as it relies on the energy input from the light-harvesting complexes, the charge separation and electron transfer initiated by the PSII reaction center, and the subsequent electron transport chain. This integration of the OEC with the broader photosynthetic apparatus further underscores its irreducible complexity. The gradual evolution of such a tightly coupled and interdependent system through random mutations and natural selection becomes increasingly implausible, as it would require the simultaneous and coordinated emergence of multiple components, each providing no selective advantage on its own. The inability to isolate and study the OEC in a functional state independent of the larger photosynthetic machinery also highlights the challenges in investigating its origins and development within the conventional framework.

Other Challenges: The high levels of radiation would have made the synthesis and stability of essential biomolecules, such as nucleic acids, proteins, and lipids, extremely challenging, hindering the development of cellular life. Repair mechanisms for radiation-induced damage to biological molecules would have been less effective or non-existent in the early stages of evolution, further compounding the problem. The formation of protective layers or screens against UV and VUV radiation, such as the ozone layer or melanin pigments, would have required complex evolutionary processes that would have been impeded by the damaging effects of the radiation itself.

The UV and VUV radiation problem highlights the challenges faced by the conventional understanding of the early Earth's environment and the evolution of life over billions of years. The extreme conditions posed by the absence of a protective ozone layer would have been detrimental to the emergence and survival of complex life forms, the evolution of photosynthesis, and the accumulation of oxygen in the atmosphere. These issues raise significant questions about the plausibility of the conventional timeline and suggest that alternative models or timescales may be required to better explain the observed data and the development of life on Earth.

Rapid Radioactive Decay and Heat Problem: The presence of short-lived radioactive elements in the Earth's crust and the relatively low heat flow from the Earth's interior are difficult to reconcile with the supposed billions of years of Earth's history. If the Earth were truly ancient, these radioactive elements should have decayed long ago, and the residual heat from their decay should have dissipated, leading to a much cooler Earth than observed today.
Saltation Problem: The fossil record often exhibits abrupt appearances of new, complex life forms without clear transitional forms from their supposed ancestors. This "saltation" or sudden appearance of new species is difficult to reconcile with the gradual, incremental process of evolution proposed by the geological timescale.
Polystrate Fossils: The existence of polystrate fossils, which are fossils that cut across multiple rock layers, challenges the assumptions of the geological timescale and the principles of stratigraphy. These fossils suggest that the rock layers they span were deposited rapidly, rather than over extended periods as assumed by the geological timescale.
Rapid Rock Formation: Many rock formations, such as layered sedimentary rocks and fossil-bearing layers, exhibit features that suggest rapid formation and deposition, rather than the slow processes assumed by the geological timescale over millions or billions of years.
Lack of Erosion and Unconformities: In some cases, the geological record lacks expected evidence of erosion or unconformities (gaps in the rock record) that should be present if the rock layers were formed over vast timescales, as proposed by the geological timescale.
Inconsistencies with Dating Methods: There are instances where different dating methods applied to the same rock formations or fossils yield vastly different age estimates, casting doubt on the reliability and assumptions of these dating techniques.

While these issues challenge the conventional geological timescale, they are often downplayed or explained away within the dominant scientific paradigm. However, alternative interpretations and models, such as those proposed by some creationists or catastrophists, may provide different perspectives on these problems.

Even if we consider a much shorter timescale of 100 million years for the Earth's history, there are still several significant problems and paradoxes that arise. Here are some of the other issues that would be challenging to explain within a 100-million-year timescale:

Rapid Magnetic Field Decay

The existence and characteristics of magnetic fields around planets and other celestial bodies offer insights into the age and evolution of our solar system. While the Earth's magnetic field is crucial for navigation and shielding us from harmful cosmic radiation, not all planets possess significant magnetic fields. Mars, for instance, lacks a global magnetic field today, despite evidence of residual magnetism from the past. Conversely, Mercury defies some models by exhibiting a measurable magnetic field. Since the 19th century, scientists have studied the Earth's magnetic field and observed its gradual decay over time. Remarkably, records also show that the magnetic poles have reversed multiple times throughout history, suggesting periods when a compass would have pointed south instead of north.

Two prominent theories aim to elucidate the origin and behavior of planetary magnetic fields:

The Dynamo Theory: This widely accepted model proposes that the magnetic field is generated by the motion of electrically conducting fluids in the Earth's outer core. Convection currents, driven by temperature differences and the planet's rotation, are thought to induce electrical currents that produce the magnetic field, akin to a current-carrying wire.
The Rapid-Decay Theory: An alternative perspective suggests that the magnetic field originated from the alignment of molecular spins during the Earth's creation. As these molecules relaxed over time, the combined magnetic field experienced a gradual reduction, inducing electrical currents in the core.

Remarkably, when compared to observational data, the rapid-decay theory consistently outperforms the dynamo theory in predicting and explaining the magnetic fields of various celestial bodies. While the dynamo theory can be adjusted to match the Earth's magnetic field, it fails to accurately predict the magnetic fields of other planets. For instance, it incorrectly suggests that Mercury should have no magnetic field, and that Mars should possess a magnetic field comparable to Earth's. In contrast, the rapid-decay theory has successfully anticipated the magnetic fields of multiple planets in our solar system. Notably, it accurately predicted the magnetic fields of Neptune and Uranus before they were measured. Furthermore, it correctly anticipated that igneous rocks from Mars would show evidence of a past planetary magnetic field, even though Mars lacks a significant magnetic field today. Additionally, the rapid-decay theory precisely predicted the measurements obtained by the NASA probe sent to Mercury, confirming a weaker magnetic field than previously measured but still existent. The remarkable predictive success of the rapid-decay theory in explaining planetary magnetic fields has implications for our understanding of the age of the Earth and the solar system. This theory suggests that the magnetic fields of planets decay over time, a process that is inconsistent with the conventional geological timescale of millions or billions of years. Instead, the rapid-decay theory aligns with a much younger Earth, potentially less than 10,000 years old. This conclusion arises from the detailed mathematical models that underpin the rapid-decay theory. These models not only explain the observed data but also make accurate predictions about planetary magnetic fields that have been subsequently verified by measurements. Consequently, the theory provides a robust scientific framework that challenges the conventional understanding of the Earth's and the solar system's age. The observed rapid decay of the Earth's magnetic field, coupled with the predictive success of the rapid-decay theory in explaining the magnetic fields of other planets, provides compelling evidence for a younger Earth and solar system. While this evidence does not conclusively prove a young Earth, it offers a scientifically viable alternative to the conventional geological timescale.

Helium Retention in Zircons

The observation of unexpectedly high levels of helium retention in zircon crystals has raised significant questions about the conventional understanding of geological timescales. Zircons, renowned for their durability and resistance to chemical and physical breakdown, often incorporate trace amounts of radioactive elements such as uranium (U) and thorium (Th) during their formation. As these elements undergo radioactive decay, they produce helium (He) atoms that should, in theory, gradually diffuse out of the zircon crystal structure over extended periods. However, numerous studies have consistently found much higher concentrations of retained helium in zircons than would be expected if these crystals were truly ancient, on the order of millions or billions of years old. According to established diffusion models and rates, the helium produced by radioactive decay should have readily escaped the zircon crystals over such extended timescales, leaving negligible amounts behind.

RATE (Radioisotopes and the Age of The Earth) Project: One of the most comprehensive investigations into this phenomenon was conducted by the RATE project, a group of scientists who examined the implications of radioisotope decay rates for the age of the Earth. Their research on helium diffusion in zircons from the Jemez Granodiorite in New Mexico provided critical data.
Helium Retention Measurements: The RATE team measured the amounts of helium retained in zircon crystals and compared these findings to theoretical diffusion models. They found that the diffusion rates required to match the observed helium concentrations suggested an age of only 4,000 to 14,000 years for the zircons, drastically younger than the conventional age of 1.5 billion years for the granodiorite.
Diffusion Rate Studies: Independent studies of helium diffusion rates in zircons under various conditions have consistently shown that helium should diffuse out of zircons relatively quickly at typical crustal temperatures. These studies provide a strong basis for the argument that if zircons were truly millions or billions of years old, they should contain negligible amounts of helium. The high retention of helium in zircons implies that the radioactive decay that produced the helium must have occurred over a much shorter period than commonly believed. This observation challenges the conventional assumptions and raises several potential explanations:
Accelerated Nuclear Decay: One possible explanation is that nuclear decay rates were significantly higher in the past, a hypothesis that some researchers support. This would mean that a substantial amount of radioactive decay (and thus helium production) occurred in a relatively short amount of time, consistent with a younger age for the zircons and their host rocks.
Younger Geological Features: The high levels of helium retention suggest that the zircons (and by extension, the geological formations they are part of) may be much younger than the conventional geological timescale of millions or billions of years. Several lines of evidence support the interpretation that the high helium retention in zircons is inconsistent with the conventional geological timescale: The empirical data from numerous studies on helium diffusion rates in zircons consistently show that helium should diffuse out of zircons quickly at typical crustal temperatures. The observed high helium retention is thus more consistent with a younger age for these crystals. The conventional geological timescale relies on assumptions about constant decay rates and closed-system behavior in radiometric dating. The helium retention data challenge these assumptions, suggesting that alternative models or processes may better explain the observations. The helium retention data align with other observations and lines of evidence that have been interpreted as indicators of a younger Earth, such as the presence of soft tissue in dinosaur fossils, the relatively low erosion rates of continents, and the rapid formation of geological features observed in catastrophic events.

The unexpectedly high retention of helium in zircon crystals presents a compelling challenge to the conventional geological timescale and raises fundamental questions about the assumptions underlying traditional dating methods. The empirical data from helium diffusion studies, supported by independent lines of evidence, suggest that alternative models or processes may be required to explain the observed helium retention levels. While this interpretation may challenge long-held views, it highlights the importance of continually re-evaluating scientific assumptions in light of new evidence. Further research and open-minded exploration of this phenomenon are crucial for advancing our understanding of the Earth's history and the processes that have shaped our planet over time.

Rapid Depletion of Fossil Fuels

The rapid depletion of fossil fuel reserves, such as coal and oil, presents a significant challenge to the conventional geological timescale of millions or billions of years. The formation of these resources is traditionally attributed to the compression and heating of organic matter over extended periods. However, the observed rates of consumption and depletion suggest that these resources should have been depleted much faster if the Earth were indeed ancient, given the presumed slow rates of their formation. Several lines of evidence support this argument and point toward a much younger Earth, potentially within the range of thousands of years, rather than the commonly accepted millions or billions of years.

Fossil Fuel Consumption Rates: Global oil consumption currently stands at around 100 million barrels per day, and coal consumption exceeds 8 billion tons annually. At these rates of consumption, many major oil and coal reserves are projected to be exhausted within decades or a few centuries at most. If the Earth were truly hundreds of millions of years old, these finite resources should have been depleted millions of years ago, given the presumed slow rates of their formation.
Formation Rates of Fossil Fuels: The conventional view holds that fossil fuels formed through the gradual accumulation and compression of organic matter over millions of years. However, experiments and observations suggest that the formation of coal and oil can occur relatively rapidly under certain conditions, such as high pressure and temperature. This implies that the observed reserves of fossil fuels could have formed within a much shorter timeframe, consistent with a young Earth scenario.
Evidence from Coal Seams: Many coal seams exhibit features that are difficult to reconcile with a gradual formation process over millions of years. These features include the presence of upright tree trunks spanning multiple coal seams, intact bark and leaves, and the lack of significant erosion or bioturbation between seams. These observations suggest rapid burial and coalification events, potentially associated with catastrophic processes, rather than slow accumulation over vast timescales.
Oil and Gas Reservoirs: The presence of oil and gas reservoirs under significant pressure implies a relatively recent formation, as these pressures would have dissipated over millions of years due to leakage or fracturing. Additionally, the well-preserved nature of some fossil fuels, such as liquid petroleum and natural gas, suggests a relatively short time since their formation.
Alignment with Other Young Earth Indicators: The rapid depletion of fossil fuel reserves aligns with other lines of evidence that have been interpreted as supporting a young Earth scenario, such as the presence of soft tissue in dinosaur fossils, the retention of helium in zircon crystals, and the observed rapid formation of geological features. While this perspective challenges the conventional geological timescale, it is grounded in empirical data and observations that cannot be easily dismissed. The rapid depletion of fossil fuel reserves, coupled with evidence from their formation processes and characteristics, provides a compelling case for re-evaluating the assumptions underlying traditional dating methods and considering alternative models that may better explain the observed data.

Key Geological Boundaries and Their Associated Extinction Events: A Historical Overview

The geological record is divided into several major boundaries, many of which correlate with significant extinction events in Earth's history. These boundaries mark important supposed transitions in the planet's development and the evolution of life. Here's an overview of key boundaries and their associated extinction events:

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Geolog11

1. Hadean-Archean boundary (~4 billion years ago): Marks the end of Earth's formation and the beginning of the rock record.
2. Archean-Proterozoic boundary (~2.5 billion years ago): Signifies major changes in Earth's atmosphere and the rise of oxygen.
3. Proterozoic-Phanerozoic boundary (~541 million years ago): Marks the beginning of the Cambrian period and the explosion of complex life forms.
4. Cambrian-Ordovician boundary (~488 million years ago): Associated with a series of smaller extinction events.
5. Ordovician-Silurian boundary (~445 million years ago): Corresponds to the End-Ordovician extinction, one of the "Big Five" mass extinctions.
6. Devonian-Carboniferous boundary (~360 million years ago): Near this boundary occurred the Late Devonian extinction, another of the "Big Five."
7. Permian-Triassic boundary (~252 million years ago): Marks "The Great Dying," the largest known mass extinction event and one of the "Big Five."
8. Triassic-Jurassic boundary (~201 million years ago): Corresponds to the End-Triassic extinction, one of the "Big Five," marking the rise of dinosaurs as dominant land animals.
9. Cretaceous-Paleogene (K-Pg) boundary (~66 million years ago): Marks the End-Cretaceous extinction, including non-avian dinosaurs, and is one of the "Big Five."
10. Eocene-Oligocene boundary (~34 million years ago): Associated with the End-Eocene extinction event.
11. Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (~56 million years ago): A period of rapid global warming and carbon release, not a major extinction event but a significant climate event.
12. Pleistocene-Holocene boundary (~11,700 years ago): Marks the end of the last ice age and the beginning of the current geological epoch.

These boundaries are typically defined by significant changes in the fossil record, rock types, or chemical signatures in the rocks. The extinction events associated with many of these boundaries are subjects of ongoing research, with proposed causes including asteroid impacts, massive volcanic eruptions, climate changes, and combinations of these factors. The "Big Five" mass extinctions (End-Ordovician, Late Devonian, End-Permian, End-Triassic, and End-Cretaceous) represent the most severe and well-studied of these events, each resulting in the loss of a significant percentage of Earth's species at the time.

These boundaries are typically defined by significant changes in the fossil record, rock types, or chemical signatures in the rocks. The extinction events associated with many of these boundaries are subjects of ongoing research, with proposed causes including asteroid impacts, massive volcanic eruptions, climate changes, and combinations of these factors. The "Big Five" mass extinctions (End-Ordovician, Late Devonian, End-Permian, End-Triassic, and End-Cretaceous) represent the most severe and well-studied of these events, each resulting in the loss of a significant percentage of Earth's species at the time.

Precambrian Fossils in the Colorado Plateau

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Grand_10
Major Proterozoic and Paleozoic stratigraphic units of the Grand Canyon and Colorado Plateau. Modified from a diagram by Wade Greenberg-Brand originally published in The Teacher-Friendly Guide to the Earth Science of the Southwestern US. Link

The Grand Canyon provides a remarkable cross-section of sedimentary rock layers, which align perfectly with the idea of rapid, catastrophic deposition during a global flood.

Precambrian (Vishnu Schist and Zoroaster Granite)

At the base, we have the Precambrian rocks, including the Vishnu Schist and Zoroaster Granite. These are the foundational rocks, often referred to as basement rocks, which were likely formed during the initial creation week as described in Genesis.

Cambrian to Permian Layers

The layers above the Precambrian provide a stunning record:

Tapeats Sandstone, Bright Angel Shale, and Mauv Limestone (Cambrian): These layers represent the initial stages of the floodwaters rising, bringing sediments from different parts of the earth and rapidly depositing them.
Temple Butte Limestone (Devonian): As the floodwaters continued to rise, more marine sediments were deposited. The presence of marine fossils within these layers supports the notion that these sediments were laid down by ocean waters covering the continents.
Redwall Limestone (Mississippian): This thick limestone layer, filled with marine fossils, is indicative of a massive, rapid deposition of limey sediments by the floodwaters.
Supai Group (Pennsylvanian): The mixed sediments within the Supai Group suggest varying energy levels and changing conditions during the flood, with periods of quieter waters followed by more turbulent conditions.
Hermit Shale, Coconino Sandstone, Toroweap Formation, and Kaibab Formation (Permian):  These upper layers were deposited towards the end of the flood as waters began to recede. The Coconino Sandstone, for example, contains large-scale cross-bedding that indicates rapid water movement and deposition.

The significant erosion surface known as the Great Unconformity, seen between the Tonto Group and the Grand Canyon Supergroup, is a testament to the massive geological upheaval and erosion that occurred during the early stages of the flood. This unconformity represents a period of intense erosion, likely caused by the powerful, rushing floodwaters. The overall rapid sedimentation and the presence of folded rock layers without significant fracturing suggest that these sediments were still soft and pliable when they were folded. This is consistent with a rapid, catastrophic deposition during the flood, followed by quick burial and lithification. The geological features of the Grand Canyon, as depicted in this image, provide compelling evidence for the occurrence of a global flood. The rapid deposition of these extensive sedimentary layers, the presence of marine fossils at various levels, and the significant erosional unconformities all point to a single, catastrophic event that reshaped the earth’s surface. This interpretation aligns with the biblical account of a worldwide deluge, which rapidly buried and preserved these sediments, forming the stunning layers we see today in the Grand Canyon.


An Alternative Perspective on the Proposed Mass Extinction Events

According to the conventional scientific understanding, there were six major mass extinction events in Earth's history. Here's a list of these events in the requested format:

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Image135

1. Ordovician-Silurian Extinction (443.8 million years ago)
This event, also known as the Late Ordovician mass extinction, was the second-largest of the six major extinction events. It is estimated that around 85% of all species became extinct during this period. The primary reasons given for this mass extinction are cooling global temperatures and glaciation. Evidence for this includes geological records showing the formation of continental glaciers, as well as changes in the distribution of fossils indicating shifts in climate and ocean circulation patterns.

2. Late Devonian Extinction (365 million years ago)
Also referred to as the Frasnian-Famennian extinction, this event occurred around 365 million years ago and is considered one of the most significant mass extinction events in Earth's history. It is estimated that around 75% of all species were wiped out, including many reef-building organisms and marine invertebrates. The causes of this event are not entirely clear, but evidence suggests that it may have been triggered by a combination of factors, including climate change, ocean anoxia (depletion of oxygen in the oceans), and possibly meteor impacts or volcanic activity. Fossil records show a sharp decline in biodiversity during this period, particularly in shallow marine environments.

3. Permian-Triassic Extinction (251.9 million years ago)
Known as the "Great Dying," this was the largest mass extinction event in Earth's history, occurring around 251.9 million years ago. It is estimated that approximately 96% of all marine species and 70% of terrestrial species became extinct during this event. The causes of this event are believed to have been a combination of factors, including widespread volcanic activity in the Siberian Traps, which released massive amounts of greenhouse gases and caused global warming, as well as ocean acidification and anoxia. Evidence for this event includes the presence of widespread extinction patterns in fossil records across multiple continents and environments.

4. Triassic-Jurassic Extinction (201.3 million years ago)
This event, also known as the End-Triassic mass extinction, occurred around 201.3 million years ago and is estimated to have caused the extinction of approximately 80% of all species on Earth. The exact causes of this event are still debated, but factors such as volcanic activity, climate change, and asteroid impacts have been proposed. Evidence for this event includes a sharp decline in the diversity of fossils across various environments, as well as the presence of iridium-rich clay layers, which may indicate an asteroid impact.

5. Cretaceous-Paleogene Extinction (66 million years ago)
This event, commonly referred to as the K-T extinction or the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction, occurred around 66 million years ago and is best known for the extinction of the non-avian dinosaurs. It is estimated that approximately 76% of all species, including many marine and terrestrial organisms, were wiped out during this event. The widely accepted cause of this mass extinction is an asteroid impact, based on evidence such as the presence of a global layer of iridium-rich clay, which is commonly associated with asteroid impacts, as well as the presence of the Chicxulub crater in Mexico, which is believed to be the impact site.

6. Holocene/Anthropocene Extinction (ongoing)
This ongoing mass extinction event, also known as the Sixth Mass Extinction, is primarily caused by human activities, including habitat destruction, pollution, climate change, and the introduction of invasive species. It is estimated that species are currently going extinct at a rate hundreds or thousands of times higher than the natural background rate. Evidence for this event includes the well-documented decline and extinction of numerous species across various ecosystems, as well as the ongoing destruction and fragmentation of habitats due to human activities such as deforestation, urbanization, and resource extraction.

An Alternative Perspective on the Proposed Mass Extinction Events

The conventional scientific narrative outlines six major mass extinction events that purportedly shaped the course of life on Earth. However, this proposition is riddled with significant gaps, abrupt disappearances of species, and a conspicuous lack of transitional forms, all of which challenge the gradualist model of evolution.

1. Ordovician-Silurian Extinction (443.8 million years ago): The abrupt and widespread disappearance of an alleged 85% of species during this event, attributed to cooling temperatures and glaciation, lacks a comprehensive explanation within the evolutionary framework. The sudden loss of such a vast number of life forms is difficult to reconcile with the gradual processes proposed by evolutionary theory.

2. Late Devonian Extinction (365 million years ago): The purported loss of 75% of species, including many reef-building organisms and marine invertebrates, is marked by a striking absence of transitional fossils that should have preceded such a catastrophic event according to evolutionary principles. The fossil record lacks the gradual transitions expected in the lead-up to such a significant extinction event.

3. Permian-Triassic Extinction (251.9 million years ago): Dubbed the "Great Dying," this event is said to have caused the extinction of 96% of marine species and 70% of terrestrial species. However, the fossil record fails to provide a clear evolutionary pathway or transitional forms to explain the survival and subsequent diversification of the remaining species after such a devastating event. The abrupt disappearance and reemergence of life forms challenge the gradualist model.

4. Triassic-Jurassic Extinction (201.3 million years ago): Allegedly causing the extinction of approximately 80% of all species, this event is plagued by gaps in the fossil record and a lack of transitional forms that should have preceded and followed such a significant turnover in Earth's biodiversity. The absence of these transitional forms contradicts the expectations of evolutionary theory.

5. Cretaceous-Paleogene Extinction (66 million years ago): While widely accepted as the event that led to the demise of the non-avian dinosaurs, the fossil record lacks transitional forms connecting these extinct species to their purported avian descendants. This absence challenges the expected smooth transition postulated by evolutionary theory.

6. Holocene/Anthropocene Extinction (ongoing): Attributed to human activities, this ongoing extinction presents a significant challenge to the evolutionary narrative. The proposed rate of species loss far exceeds the expected natural background rate, suggesting the involvement of factors beyond the gradual evolutionary processes typically invoked.

The challenges posed by the fossil record extend beyond the gaps and abrupt appearances highlighted in the proposed mass extinction events. The conventional presentation of the geological record as a straightforward, layered progression of eras belies the complex realities and inconsistencies that emerge upon closer examination. One perplexing aspect is the disconnect between the purported age of certain fossils and the expected rates of erosion and tectonic activity. We are often told that it takes approximately 25 million years to erode a continent flat. However, this timeframe seems inconsistent with the presence of supposedly ancient fossils, such as those of dinosaurs, found relatively close to the surface. If the fossil record truly spans hundreds of millions of years, as claimed, one would expect the erosive forces and continual uplift of new landmasses to have significantly displaced or obliterated these ancient remains. The presence of fossils purported to be 100 million years old or even 50 million years old near the surface raises questions about their supposed age and the processes that preserved them. The conventional narrative does not adequately address this apparent contradiction. If erosion and tectonic activity have indeed been shaping the Earth's surface over such vast timescales, how could these fossils have remained so close to the surface, relatively undisturbed by the very forces that are supposed to have sculpted the continents and mountain ranges? This disconnect between the claimed age of fossils and the expected geological processes calls into question the underlying assumptions and interpretations of the fossil record. It suggests that the complexities and inconsistencies within the geological record may be more profound than typically acknowledged, challenging the straightforward narratives often presented. In light of these numerous gaps, abrupt disappearances, and the lack of transitional forms, the proposed six mass extinction events appear incomplete and inadequate in accounting for the observed fossil evidence within the evolutionary paradigm. Alternatively, a model of separate creations and a single, catastrophic extinction event better explains the abrupt disappearances, subsequent diversifications, and the lack of transitional forms observed in the fossil record. The scientific evidence seems to align more closely with a sudden, global cataclysmic event rather than a series of gradual, prolonged extinction events as proposed by the conventional evolutionary narrative.

The existence of extensive sedimentary rock layers spread across vast areas and even entire continents provides evidence of large-scale inundation and deposition events in Earth's history. The sheer thickness and lateral extent of these strata point to processes operating on a global scale, rather than localized events. Furthermore, the presence of fossilized marine organisms, such as fish, shellfish, and other marine creatures, found in rock layers atop even the highest mountain ranges, raises questions about their deposition mechanism. The occurrence of these fossilized remains at such elevations suggests they were rapidly buried under catastrophic water conditions capable of transporting and depositing sediments and organisms over immense areas. Additionally, the observation of polystrate fossils – fossils that cut through multiple sedimentary layers – challenges the conventional understanding of slow, gradual deposition over extended periods. These fossils, such as fossilized tree trunks or other organisms, seemingly defying the boundaries of individual rock layers, hint at a more rapid depositional process capable of burying and preserving them in their vertical orientation. The existence of extensive sedimentary layers containing a mixture of fossilized terrestrial and marine organisms, often found in chaotic arrangements, are indicative of a catastrophic event that indiscriminately entombed and intermixed these diverse life forms. The lack of clear ecological zonation and the presence of organisms from disparate environments within the same strata suggest a sudden, large-scale burial process rather than a gradual accumulation over time. Moreover, the discovery of vast fossil graveyards, containing innumerable well-preserved specimens of various species, points to a rapid and widespread burial mechanism that prevented the decomposition or scattering of these remains. The exceptional preservation of these fossils, often with articulated skeletons and soft tissues intact, implies a sudden and catastrophic event that quickly entombed and fossilized these organisms. While the conventional narrative attempts to explain these observations through a series of localized events or gradual processes over extended timescales, an alternative perspective suggests that a single, catastrophic, global inundation event could better account for the widespread distribution of sedimentary rocks, the presence of marine fossils at high elevations, the existence of polystrate fossils, the chaotic mixing of diverse organisms within the same strata, and the exceptional preservation of fossils in vast graveyards. This perspective aligns more closely with the scientific evidence and provides a coherent explanation for the observed geological and paleontological phenomena.

How long can biomolecules remain preserved? 

The paper: A chemical framework for the preservation of fossil vertebrate cells and soft tissues (2023) 12 stated: Upon an organism's death, its cellular structure begins to rapidly decompose. Within minutes to hours, cellular autolysis occurs and fermentation increases. Endogenous bacteria migrate from the intestinal tract into surrounding tissues, expediting carbohydrate fermentation and initiating putrefaction. Phospholipids and glycerides are rapidly hydrolyzed, releasing their fatty acid moieties which are either aerobically metabolized via the β-oxidation pathway or, in the absence of free oxygen, are converted to free and crosslinked hydroxy fatty acids (adipocere). A buildup of gases from these processes in the body cavity leads to bloat, which stretches, deforms, and disarticulates tissues and skeletal elements, further exposing the body to external decomposers. These processes eventually result in complete breakdown and recycling of components, leaving no trace remains to be incorporated into the fossil record. For original soft tissues and biomolecules to preserve in fossils, these degradative processes must have been slowed or arrested shortly post-mortem so that the original cells and tissues were not completely decomposed. This can potentially occur via rapid burial and mineralization of organismal remains, via rapid freezing (as in the case of permafrost specimens), or via desiccation. This summary highlights the rapid and complex process of decomposition that typically occurs after death, and the exceptional circumstances required for the preservation of soft tissues and biomolecules in the fossil record.

Commentary: Fossils provide compelling evidence for a global catastrophic event, such as a massive flood. When we examine the process of decomposition, it becomes clear that under normal circumstances, an organism's tissues and cells break down rapidly after death. This breakdown begins almost immediately, with bacteria and chemical reactions quickly destroying soft tissues and biomolecules. For fossils to form, especially those preserving soft tissues or delicate structures, this natural decomposition process must be halted very quickly. The key to this preservation is rapid burial. When organisms are suddenly entombed in sediment, it can prevent the usual decomposition processes and allow for fossilization. The fossil record we see today, with its abundance and widespread distribution, suggests that a large-scale catastrophic event occurred. Such an event would need to be powerful enough to bury vast numbers of organisms quickly and simultaneously across wide geographic areas. A global flood fits these requirements perfectly. Consider the many fossil beds found around the world, often containing diverse species mixed together, sometimes even terrestrial and marine creatures in the same layers. These deposits point to a sudden, large-scale event rather than gradual processes over millions of years. Moreover, the presence of well-preserved fossils, including those with soft tissue remnants, indicates that the burial process was not only widespread but also extremely rapid. In normal circumstances, such preservation would be virtually impossible. The requirements for fossil formation - rapid burial, prevention of normal decay processes, and widespread impact - align remarkably well with the conditions that would be present during a global flood event. This catastrophic model of fossil formation provides a compelling explanation for the fossil record we observe, including its extent, diversity, and the exceptional preservation of some specimens. While alternative explanations exist, the flood model offers a comprehensive framework that accounts for the evidence we see in the fossil record, providing a strong case for a global catastrophic event in Earth's history.

The paper continues:  "The first proposed mechanism, iron-mediated radical formation, hypothesizes that redox-active iron catalyzes the breakdown of hydroperoxides to free hydroxyl radicals. The free hydroxyl radical is unstable and highly reactive, and quickly abstracts a hydrogen atom (H·) from a biomolecule such as a protein, lipid, DNA, etc., and forms a radical on the biomolecule itself. The newly formed radical biomolecule can then react through one of several mechanisms with neighboring biomolecules to form intermolecular crosslinks." The second mechanism is referred to as "in-situ polymerization" in this passage:

"Both result in the intra- and intermolecular crosslinking and chemical transformation of reactant biomolecules, a process referred to as in-situ polymerization within geological contexts."

The two proposed mechanisms for soft tissue preservation - iron-mediated radical formation and in-situ polymerization - are inadequate explanations for several reasons:

Commentary: These mechanisms fail to account for the rapid burial required for soft tissue preservation. As the article initially states, for soft tissues to be preserved, degradative processes must be "slowed or arrested shortly post-mortem." This rapid burial is more consistent with a catastrophic event like a global flood rather than gradual processes over millions of years. The presence of soft tissues in fossils supposedly millions of years old contradicts our understanding of biomolecule degradation rates. Even with proposed preservation mechanisms, it's highly improbable that such delicate structures could survive for tens of millions of years. The widespread occurrence of preserved soft tissues across various geological strata and locations suggests a large-scale, rapid burial event rather than localized preservation conditions. The proposed mechanisms don't adequately explain the quality and extent of preservation observed in many fossils. Some specimens show remarkable detail and flexibility that seem incompatible with the idea of long-term chemical alterations. These explanations appear to be retrofitted to support the conventional geological timescale rather than addressing the more straightforward explanation of recent, rapid burial. The article's mention of iron oxides associated with fossil soft tissues could be interpreted as evidence of the mineral-rich waters of a global flood event rather than a long-term preservation mechanism. The complexity and specificity of preserved structures, including cellular details, blood vessels, and even biomolecules, seem to exceed what would be expected from these proposed chemical preservation processes over millions of years. In light of these issues, a more recent, large-scale catastrophic burial event provides a more cohesive explanation for the observed soft tissue preservation in the fossil record.

The study "Actualistic Testing of the Influence of Groundwater Chemistry on Degradation of Collagen I in Bone" by Ullmann, Voegele, and Lacovara examined how different groundwater chemistries affect collagen I degradation in bone. 13 Their findings on iron's effects include:

Iron extracts showed higher absorbance readings, suggesting faster collagen release from iron-treated bone during demineralization.
Immunoassays revealed a collagen decay order of: water/calcium carbonate < phosphate < iron, with iron causing the most significant degradation.
Histological analysis of the iron-treated femur showed iron hydroxide deposits, extensive osteocyte loss, and low immunoassay signals, indicating substantial collagen degradation.
The iron trial simulated an acidic, dysaerobic environment unfavorable for bone preservation. The resulting bone was softer and yielded more collagen I in HCl extracts.

Ullmann et al.'s study presents several challenges to the iron-mediated soft tissue preservation hypothesis proposed by Schweitzer et al. in 2014:

Collagen degradation: Iron was found to accelerate collagen I degradation in bone, contradicting the preservation hypothesis.
Lowest preservation: Iron treatment resulted in the lowest collagen preservation among all tested substances.
Histological changes: Iron-treated samples showed extensive decay, including osteocyte loss and iron hydroxide deposits.
Bone softening: Iron-treated bones became softer, indicating degradation rather than preservation.
Acidic conditions: The iron treatment created an acidic environment unsuitable for bone fossilization.
Increased collagen extraction: Iron-treated bones yielded more collagen I in HCl extracts, suggesting increased susceptibility to degradation.

These findings contradict the idea that iron promotes soft tissue preservation in fossils. Instead, they suggest that iron may accelerate tissue degradation under the tested conditions, challenging the proposed mechanisms of iron-mediated radical formation and in-situ polymerization for soft tissue preservation.

Stability of biomolecules at 20°C and 10°C)

Proteins and Amino Acids

Jeffrey L. Bada: Preservation of key biomolecules in the fossil record: current knowledge and future challenges (1999) 9
 
Protein Hydrolysis and Collagen Breakdown:

In carbonate matrices: Ocean floor: ~1 million years. Surface environments: ~100,000 years
In bones: 10,000 to 30,000 years for collagen breakdown. Longer preservation is possible in cool/dry environments

Amino Acid Racemization:
- Cold depositional environments: 5-10 million years
- Temperate regions: 1 million years or less

DNA Preservation:
- Temperate regions: A few thousand years
- Colder, high-latitude areas: Up to 100,000 years

Amino acids persist longer than the proteins they originate from. Protein hydrolysis and amino acid racemization are distinct processes. Proteins break down into amino acids, which then undergo racemization. Preservation of amino acids doesn't imply intact proteins. DNA degrades faster than proteins and amino acids.

Environmental Factors:
- Biomolecule preservation heavily depends on temperature, humidity, and matrix type.
- Exceptional conditions (e.g., permafrost) can significantly extend preservation times.
- In most Earth environments, amino acids become fully racemized in 100,000-1,000,000 years.

Example of Exceptional Preservation:
- Mammoth bones in permafrost have yielded 126 proteins and 962 unique peptides.

Degradation Process:
1. Protein degradation begins early after burial.
2. Amino acid preservation follows a series of reactions:
  a) Hydrolysis of proteins
  b) Racemization
  c) Condensation reactions with sugars

DNA 
DNA is generally less stable than proteins over geological time scales. However, under exceptional preservation conditions, such as in amber or permafrost, DNA fragments may retain meaningful genetic information for tens of thousands of years. The preservation of DNA is highly dependent on environmental factors, with cold, dry conditions being most favorable. Link 

RNA
RNA is typically less stable than DNA and is rarely preserved in ancient samples. The search results do not provide specific information on RNA preservation.

Carbohydrates
It's generally understood that simple sugars are less likely to be preserved than more complex biomolecules.

Lipids
Lipids, particularly certain types like steranes, have high preservation potential and are often used as biological and environmental markers in the rock record. In some cases, lipids can be preserved for millions of years.

Several factors influence the preservation of biomolecules

Environmental conditions: Temperature, moisture, and pH significantly impact preservation. Cold, dry environments like permafrost are most favorable. Biomolecules can be protected by resistant cell wall components like algaenan in green algae and lignin in vascular plants. Adsorption to mineral surfaces or encapsulation within mineral structures can enhance preservation. Biotic exclusion: Prevention of microbial or enzymatic access to biomolecules can significantly extend their preservation. Inherent differences in chemical stability between different biomolecules affect their preservation potential. 10.

While the preservation of biomolecules varies greatly depending on the specific molecule and environmental conditions, some biomolecules can persist for tens of thousands to millions of years under favorable circumstances. Lipids and amino acids generally have the highest preservation potential, followed by proteins and DNA fragments, while RNA and simple carbohydrates are less likely to be preserved over long geological timescales.

How long can Collagen remain preserved? 

Collagen plays a significant role in bones and fossils. Collagen is the most abundant protein in the animal kingdom. It's a long, fibrous structural protein that forms a major component of connective tissues, including: 1. Skin 2. Tendons 3. Ligaments 4. Cartilage 5. Bones. In bones, collagen makes up about 90% of the organic component, providing flexibility and resilience to the otherwise brittle mineral structure. Collagen forms the organic matrix in bones, onto which mineral crystals (primarily hydroxyapatite) are deposited. This combination gives bones their unique properties of strength and flexibility. Collagen is one of the most durable proteins, which makes it particularly important in paleontology and archaeology. It can sometimes survive in fossils for tens or even hundreds of thousands of years under the right conditions. The degradation of collagen over time can be used in dating techniques. Methods like amino acid racemization can provide age estimates for fossils based on the breakdown of collagen. In some cases, preserved collagen can provide taxonomic information about extinct species. Collagen peptide sequences can be species-specific, allowing researchers to identify or classify fossil remains. Collagen can sometimes help preserve DNA in fossils. The tight structure of collagen fibers may protect DNA molecules from degradation in some cases. The study of how collagen breaks down over time (diagenesis) provides valuable information about fossilization processes and taphonomy (the study of how organisms decay and become fossilized). Stable isotope analysis of collagen from fossils can provide insights into ancient diets and ecosystems.

However, it's important to note that collagen, like all organic molecules, does degrade over time. The rate of this degradation depends on various environmental factors such as temperature, pH, and moisture. In most environments, little intact collagen remains after 10,000 to 30,000 years, although in cool or dry conditions, it can persist for much longer.

The study of collagen in fossils has become increasingly sophisticated, with techniques like mass spectrometry allowing for the analysis of even tiny amounts of preserved protein. This has opened up new avenues for understanding ancient life and environments.

According to the information provided in the paper: Proteomes of the past: the pursuit of proteins in paleontology (2019) 1 the decay rate of bone collagen under ideal conditions has been well characterized experimentally. Specifically:  "Its energy of activation (Ea) of 173 kJ/mol equates to a half-life of 130 ka at 7.5°C [9,10]." The "ka" stands for "kilo-annums" or thousands of years, so 130 ka = 130,000 years.

The key points regarding the collagen decay rate are: The decay rate was determined experimentally using accelerated temperatures and measuring remaining collagen over time. The Arrhenius equation was used to calculate the rate constant (k) and half-life (t1/2) at a given temperature, using the determined activation energy. At 7.5°C, which is considered an ideal condition, the half-life of bone collagen is estimated to be 130,000 years.
Therefore, based on these experimental results, the authors state that "Collagen decay rate experimental results build a temporal expectation that restricts bone collagen to archeological time frames", implying that finding intact collagen in much older fossils is unexpected and challenges conventional dating assumptions.

If the half-life of collagen is 130,000 years at 7.5°C, then we can calculate the maximum expected time that collagen could remain detectable based on the number of half-lives elapsed since the fossil formed. The key assumption here is that after a certain number of half-lives, the amount of remaining collagen would be too small to detect. Let's assume we can still detect collagen after 5 half-lives, at which point only (1/2)^5 = 1/32 = 3.125% of the original amount remains. If the fossils in question are from the Mesozoic era, which ranges from 252 million years ago to 66 million years ago, then:

For a 252 million-year-old fossil: Number of half-lives elapsed = 252,000,000 years / 130,000 years per half-life = 1,938 half-lives. This is much more than the 5 half-life threshold, so we would not expect any detectable collagen remaining.

For a 66 million-year-old fossil:  Number of half-lives elapsed = 66,000,000 years / 130,000 years per half-life = 508 half-lives

Again, this exceeds 5 half-lives by a large margin, so based on the stated 130,000 year half-life, we should not expect detectable amounts of original collagen in Mesozoic fossils. Using the provided collagen half-life of 130,000 years, the maximum expected time that collagen could remain detectable is only around 650,000 years (5 half-lives). Fossils much older than that, like those from the Mesozoic era dating back tens to hundreds of millions of years, should not have any original collagen remaining according to this calculation. The presence of reported collagen in such ancient fossils contradicts the expected longevity based on the stated half-life.

Original Biomolecules Challenge the Dating of Ancient Fossils

The presence of soft tissues in fossils, including those dating back to the Cambrian period, raises significant questions about the conventional timescales proposed for the fossil record. According to the traditional narrative, the Cambrian period occurred over 500 million years ago, and fossils from that era should have undergone extensive mineralization and degradation, leaving only the hardest parts preserved. However, the discovery of non-permineralized soft tissues in these ancient fossils challenges this assumption and suggests a much more recent origin. One notable example is the discovery of exceptionally preserved fossils in the Burgess Shale formation in British Columbia, Canada. These fossils, dating back to the Middle Cambrian period (around 505 million years ago according to conventional dating), exhibit remarkable preservation of soft tissues, including muscles, guts, and even remains of the last meal in some specimens. The exquisite detail and integrity of these soft tissues are difficult to reconcile with the proposed timescales, as one would expect such delicate structures to have decayed or been replaced by mineralization over hundreds of millions of years.

Soft tissue in fossils 1,88 billion years old? 

Soft tissues like muscles and internal organs are composed of proteins and other biomolecules that are inherently unstable and prone to rapid degradation after an organism's death. Their preservation over hundreds of millions of years is highly improbable, as these molecules typically break down within a few thousand years under ideal conditions. In some cases, biomolecules such as collagen and chitin have been reported in these Cambrian fossils. The preservation of intact biomolecules over such a vast timescale is virtually impossible, as they would be expected to degrade and undergo chemical transformations, making their original structures unrecognizable. While rapid burial and anoxic (oxygen-depleted) conditions can slow down the degradation process, they are not sufficient to explain the preservation of soft tissues and intact biomolecules over hundreds of millions of years. Even in the most favorable conditions, the breakdown of these organic materials would be expected within a few million years at most. The mineral replacement of soft tissues can provide detailed impressions, but it does not necessarily preserve the original organic matter. The presence of original biomolecules in these fossils challenges conventional dating and raises questions about the preservation mechanisms involved. These observations suggest that the timescales involved in the preservation of these Cambrian fossils may be significantly shorter than the conventional dating of around 505 million years. Some researchers have proposed alternative explanations, such as accelerated decay rates or the possibility of more recent fossilization events, to reconcile the observed soft tissue preservation with shorter timescales.

A research paper from 2016 focused on the extraordinary molecular preservation observed in certain organic microfossils from the Gunflint cherts located in the Thunder Bay District of northwestern Ontario, Canada, along the northern shore of Lake Superior. The study found evidence of amide bonds. Amide bonds are chemical structures that link amino acids together to form proteins. Specifically, an amide bond is formed when the carboxyl group (-COOH) of one amino acid reacts with the amino group (-NH2) of another amino acid, releasing a water molecule in the process. The resulting C-N bond is called an amide bond or peptide bond when it occurs in proteins. The researchers detected amide functional groups in the organic microfossils from the Kakabeka Falls and Schreiber Beach sites using X-ray absorption near edge structure (XANES) spectroscopy. They observed an absorption feature at 288.2 eV, which is characteristic of amide groups.  This finding is considered exceptional because amide groups are typically among the first organic components to degrade during fossilization. They are usually lost in the early stages of burial, either consumed by microorganisms or thermally degraded at relatively low temperatures (below 100°C). 

The preservation of amide bonds in these 1.88 billion-year-old microfossils, despite experiencing temperatures of about 150-170°C, provides valuable insights into the molecular preservation of ancient life. The researchers suggest that this exceptional preservation may be due to early silicification (replacement by silica) of the microorganisms, which protected the organic molecules from degradation 8

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Soft_t10
Left: Photomicrographs of thin sections of the five Gunflint cherts investigated. These five samples contain spheroidal microfossils that appear more or less permineralized by silica and exhibit a more or less thick
wall: (a,b) Discovery Point, (c,d) Mink Mountain, (e,f) Triple Junction, (g,h) Schreiber Beach, (i,j) Kakabeka Falls. Scale bars, 50 mm.
Right: Raman mapping and FIB–SEM imaging of Schreiber Beach organic microfossils. (a) Photomicrograph of spheroidal organic microfossils from the Schreiber Beach chert and (b) corresponding Raman map showing the distribution of organic carbon. Red lines indicate the location of the cross-sections shown in c,d. Scale bars, 5 mm. (c,d) FIB–SEM images of cross-sections of the microfossils shown in a, illustrating that Gunflint spheroidal microfossils can be more or less permineralized by silica or filled by organics (which appear dark) and micrometric mineral phases (which appear bright). Scale bars, 5 mm.



Last edited by Otangelo on Fri Jun 21, 2024 6:11 pm; edited 45 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin

The primary dating method used was U-Pb (uranium-lead) radiometric dating, focusing on zircon crystals found in the Rove Formation, which lies directly above the Gunflint Formation. A key study by Fralick et al., published in Precambrian Research in 2002, analyzed zircons from a tuff bed within the Rove Formation. Their results yielded an age of 1878 ± 1.3 million years. This date serves as a minimum age for the Gunflint Formation, as it must predate the overlying Rove Formation. Zircons are exceptionally resistant to alteration over vast geological timescales, making them ideal for such analyses.  This finding is particularly noteworthy given the fossils' exposure to diagenetic temperatures ranging from 150-170°C. Some specimens exhibited remarkably well-preserved molecular signatures, including amide groups derived from protein compounds. These compounds typically degrade during the early stages of burial. The level of preservation is considered exceptional, especially considering the fossils' age and thermal history. 

The preservation of complex organic molecules over such an immense timescale is highly doubtful.  Proteins and other complex organic molecules are typically very fragile and prone to rapid degradation. They are usually among the first components to break down during fossilization and diagenesis. These fossils have undergone significant heating (150-170°C) over geological time. Such temperatures would normally be expected to destroy or significantly alter most organic molecules. Over billions of years, rocks undergo various physical and chemical changes (diagenesis) that typically alter or destroy organic compounds. While we often find mineralized remains of ancient organisms, finding preserved organic molecules, especially protein-derived compounds, is extremely rare.  Even minor temperature increases and interactions with specific minerals significantly impacts the molecular signatures of organic remains. These aren't completely non-permineralized soft tissues as one might expect in more recent fossil discoveries. The Gunflint microbiota are described as "more or less permineralized spheroidal microfossils," indicating that while organic molecules have been preserved, the fossils have undergone some degree of mineralization.

Based on the information provided in the paper, there is no clear indication of distinct layers of mineralized and non-mineralized tissue within the Gunflint microfossils. The description of "more or less permineralized spheroidal microfossils" suggests a complex preservation state rather than a clear-cut separation between mineralized and non-mineralized portions.  The term "more or less permineralized" indicates that the degree of mineralization may vary within and among the microfossils. The exceptional preservation refers to the retention of some organic molecular signatures, particularly the presence of amide groups derived from protein compounds, within these ancient structures. The preservation of these organic molecules is likely due to early silicification (replacement by silica) of the microorganisms, which helped protect some of the original organic material from complete degradation.
The presence of amide groups does not necessarily indicate the presence of completely non-mineralized soft tissue. Rather, it suggests that some organic molecular structures have "survived" within the largely mineralized fossil. To analyze the molecular composition of these microfossils at a submicrometre scale, the study employed advanced analytical techniques such as Raman spectroscopy and X-ray absorption spectroscopy.

When we set aside assumptions about dating methods and consider the preservation of amides purely from a biochemical perspective, the presence of well-preserved amide groups in very ancient fossils does present significant challenges to explain.  Amide bonds, while relatively stable compared to some other biological molecules, are still susceptible to hydrolysis and other degradation processes over time. Factors like temperature, pH, presence of water, and microbial activity can all accelerate the breakdown of amide bonds. Laboratory studies on protein degradation typically show significant breakdown over much shorter timescales, often within years or decades under ambient conditions. In archaeological contexts, protein residues are rarely found intact beyond a few thousand years, except under extraordinary preservation conditions (e.g., extreme cold, very dry environments). Over geological timescales, rocks undergo physical and chemical changes that typically alter or destroy organic compounds. The reported thermal history of these fossils (150-170°C) would normally be expected to accelerate the degradation of amide bonds significantly. Based on these factors, without extraordinary preservation mechanisms, one might expect the maximum timeframe for finding well-preserved amide groups to be on the order of thousands to perhaps tens of thousands of years under ideal conditions. Even in exceptional circumstances, it would be surprising to find them preserved for millions of years. The presence of these molecules in purportedly very ancient fossils raises interesting questions and underscores the importance of considering alternative explanations and thoroughly investigating extraordinary claims in scientific research.

Supposedly 195 mio old fossils with soft tissue

A science paper from 2017 reported:  "the presence of ancient collagen and protein remains preserved in a 195 million-year-old fossil, as demonstrated through in situ SR-FTIR microspectroscopy of the Early Jurassic
sauropodomorph dinosaur Lufengosaurus. Previously, only some evidence of preservation of organic remains was found in embryonic fossils of the same Early Jurassic sauropodomorph dinosaur Lufengosaurus from the same locality in Yunnan Province, China." 5

A science paper from 2020 reported: "Exceptional preserved ‘skin’ from an aspidorhynchid fish represents the first report of soft tissue preservation in vertebrates from the Early Cretaceous in north South America. Morphological comparisons and molecular analyses present several similar features between the extant fish skin and the fossilized specimen. Molecular analyses also provide evidence of possible proteinaceous residues preserved in the fossilized skin, which is supported by vibrational peaks associated with Amide I and II in the FTIR spectra and signals that can be associated to aminoacids like Glycine and Lysine." 6

Discoveries of original biomolecules, such as proteins, inside fossils have raised doubts about the conventional dating of these fossils, which is often estimated to be millions of years old. A review of 85 technical reports on this topic, published in the journal Expert Review of Proteomics, revealed several relevant trends. 1 Original biomaterials, including proteins, have been found in fossils of various organisms, such as dinosaurs, plants, insects, and marine creatures, indicating that this phenomenon is not limited to any specific group. The preservation of biomolecules in fossils does not seem to be dependent on any particular ancient environment, as they have been found in fossils from various settings, including air, oceans, lakes, swamps, and forests. There has been a growing interest in this field within the last two decades, as evidenced by the increasing number of relevant publications. Discoveries of original biomaterials in fossils have been reported from various locations worldwide, suggesting that this phenomenon is not restricted to any specific region. Perhaps the most striking finding is the presence of original biomaterials in fossils from seven of the ten standard geological systems, including the Precambrian and Ediacaran layers, which are considered to be among the oldest sedimentary rocks on Earth. The preservation of these biomolecules over millions of years is highly improbable, as proteins and other biomolecules are known to degrade relatively quickly under normal conditions. This observation challenges the conventional dating of these fossils and suggests that the timescales involved in their formation and preservation may be significantly shorter than currently believed.

Mary Schweitzer's T-Rex

According to the paper Comment on “Protein Sequences from Mastodon and Tyrannosaurus rex Revealed by Mass Spectrometry” 2, the high temperatures in the Hell Creek formation during the time of Tyrannosaurus rex, estimated to be above 20°C (described as "megathermal"), would have significantly accelerated the degradation of collagen in T. rex fossils.  

Schweitzer: Soft tissues are preserved within hindlimb elements of Tyrannosaurus rex (Museum of the Rockies specimen 1125). Removal of the mineral phase reveals transparent, flexible, hollow blood vessels containing small round microstructures that can be expressed from the vessels into solution.

Commentary:  This suggests that the blood vessels themselves were not mineralized, but rather surrounded or covered by a mineral layer. The phrase "removal of the mineral phase" indicates that there was a mineralized layer or portion in the fossil remains, probably serving as an outer protective layer. When this mineral layer was removed through fossil preparation techniques, the soft, flexible blood vessels that were preserved beneath this layer were exposed. Therefore, the most likely interpretation is that these blood vessels were original soft tissues that were somehow exceptionally preserved and did not undergo direct permineralization. They remained in a soft, flexible state, but were covered or surrounded by an outer mineral layer that protected them from degradation over geological time. By carefully removing this outer mineral layer, the researchers were able to reveal the transparent and flexible blood vessels, along with the small round microstructures inside, which may represent remnants of blood cells or other preserved cellular structures. This finding is notable because soft tissues generally decompose quickly after the death of the organism unless they are preserved by special processes such as permineralization or preservation in amber. The discovery of flexible, apparently unmineralized blood vessels in an ancient fossil challenges conventional notions about the preservation of soft tissue in fossils and raises intriguing questions about the exceptional processes that may have occurred in this case.

The packing and stabilization of collagen fibrils increases the activation energy (Ea) for collagen degradation to 173 kJ/mol, making collagen more temperature-sensitive. At the mega thermal temperatures over 20°C proposed for the Hell Creek formation environment, the half-life of collagen (the time for half of it to degrade) is calculated to be only around 2,000 years. In contrast, for a cooler environment like the Doeden Gravel Beds with a mean temperature of 7.5°C, the half-life of collagen is much longer at around 130,000 years. This marked difference in collagen degradation rates highlights how the high temperatures of the Hell Creek formation during the Late Cretaceous would have been extremely unfavorable for the long-term preservation of intact collagen in T. rex fossils. The combination of collagen's intrinsic temperature sensitivity due to its tightly packed fibrillar structure, and the megathermal conditions of over 20°C, means any original collagen remaining in T. rex fossils would have degraded orders of magnitude faster compared to cooler environments. This accelerated degradation makes the likelihood of finding unaltered, original collagen in T. rex much lower than in fossils from cooler depositional settings. The high temperatures provide a plausible explanation for why collagen may not survive intact over the tens of millions of years since T. rex existed.

Mary Schweitzer's T-Rex

According to the paper Comment on “Protein Sequences from Mastodon and Tyrannosaurus rex Revealed by Mass Spectrometry” 2, the high temperatures in the Hell Creek formation during the time of Tyrannosaurus rex, estimated to be above 20°C (described as "megathermal"), would have significantly accelerated the degradation of collagen in T. rex fossils.  

Schweitzer: Soft tissues are preserved within hindlimb elements of Tyrannosaurus rex (Museum of the Rockies specimen 1125). Removal of the mineral phase reveals transparent, flexible, hollow blood vessels containing small round microstructures that can be expressed from the vessels into solution.

Commentary:  This suggests that the blood vessels themselves were not mineralized, but rather surrounded or covered by a mineral layer. The phrase "removal of the mineral phase" indicates that there was a mineralized layer or portion in the fossil remains, probably serving as an outer protective layer. When this mineral layer was removed through fossil preparation techniques, the soft, flexible blood vessels that were preserved beneath this layer were exposed. Therefore, the most likely interpretation is that these blood vessels were original soft tissues that were somehow exceptionally preserved and did not undergo direct permineralization. They remained in a soft, flexible state, but were covered or surrounded by an outer mineral layer that protected them from degradation over geological time. By carefully removing this outer mineral layer, the researchers were able to reveal the transparent and flexible blood vessels, along with the small round microstructures inside, which may represent remnants of blood cells or other preserved cellular structures. This finding is notable because soft tissues generally decompose quickly after the death of the organism unless they are preserved by special processes such as permineralization or preservation in amber. The discovery of flexible, apparently unmineralized blood vessels in an ancient fossil challenges conventional notions about the preservation of soft tissue in fossils and raises intriguing questions about the exceptional processes that may have occurred in this case.

The packing and stabilization of collagen fibrils increases the activation energy (Ea) for collagen degradation to 173 kJ/mol, making collagen more temperature-sensitive. At the mega thermal temperatures over 20°C proposed for the Hell Creek formation environment, the half-life of collagen (the time for half of it to degrade) is calculated to be only around 2,000 years. In contrast, for a cooler environment like the Doeden Gravel Beds with a mean temperature of 7.5°C, the half-life of collagen is much longer at around 130,000 years. This marked difference in collagen degradation rates highlights how the high temperatures of the Hell Creek formation during the Late Cretaceous would have been extremely unfavorable for the long-term preservation of intact collagen in T. rex fossils. The combination of collagen's intrinsic temperature sensitivity due to its tightly packed fibrillar structure, and the megathermal conditions of over 20°C, means any original collagen remaining in T. rex fossils would have degraded orders of magnitude faster compared to cooler environments. This accelerated degradation makes the likelihood of finding unaltered, original collagen in T. rex much lower than in fossils from cooler depositional settings. The high temperatures provide a plausible explanation for why collagen may not survive intact over the tens of millions of years since T. rex existed.

Mary Schweitzer's T-Rex

According to the paper Comment on “Protein Sequences from Mastodon and Tyrannosaurus rex Revealed by Mass Spectrometry” 2, the high temperatures in the Hell Creek formation during the time of Tyrannosaurus rex, estimated to be above 20°C (described as "megathermal"), would have significantly accelerated the degradation of collagen in T. rex fossils.  

Schweitzer: Soft tissues are preserved within hindlimb elements of Tyrannosaurus rex (Museum of the Rockies specimen 1125). Removal of the mineral phase reveals transparent, flexible, hollow blood vessels containing small round microstructures that can be expressed from the vessels into solution.

Commentary:  This suggests that the blood vessels themselves were not mineralized, but rather surrounded or covered by a mineral layer. The phrase "removal of the mineral phase" indicates that there was a mineralized layer or portion in the fossil remains, probably serving as an outer protective layer. When this mineral layer was removed through fossil preparation techniques, the soft, flexible blood vessels that were preserved beneath this layer were exposed. Therefore, the most likely interpretation is that these blood vessels were original soft tissues that were somehow exceptionally preserved and did not undergo direct permineralization. They remained in a soft, flexible state, but were covered or surrounded by an outer mineral layer that protected them from degradation over geological time. By carefully removing this outer mineral layer, the researchers were able to reveal the transparent and flexible blood vessels, along with the small round microstructures inside, which may represent remnants of blood cells or other preserved cellular structures. This finding is notable because soft tissues generally decompose quickly after the death of the organism unless they are preserved by special processes such as permineralization or preservation in amber. The discovery of flexible, apparently unmineralized blood vessels in an ancient fossil challenges conventional notions about the preservation of soft tissue in fossils and raises intriguing questions about the exceptional processes that may have occurred in this case.

The packing and stabilization of collagen fibrils increases the activation energy (Ea) for collagen degradation to 173 kJ/mol, making collagen more temperature-sensitive. At the mega thermal temperatures over 20°C proposed for the Hell Creek formation environment, the half-life of collagen (the time for half of it to degrade) is calculated to be only around 2,000 years. In contrast, for a cooler environment like the Doeden Gravel Beds with a mean temperature of 7.5°C, the half-life of collagen is much longer at around 130,000 years. This marked difference in collagen degradation rates highlights how the high temperatures of the Hell Creek formation during the Late Cretaceous would have been extremely unfavorable for the long-term preservation of intact collagen in T. rex fossils. The combination of collagen's intrinsic temperature sensitivity due to its tightly packed fibrillar structure, and the megathermal conditions of over 20°C, means any original collagen remaining in T. rex fossils would have degraded orders of magnitude faster compared to cooler environments. This accelerated degradation makes the likelihood of finding unaltered, original collagen in T. rex much lower than in fossils from cooler depositional settings. The high temperatures provide a plausible explanation for why collagen may not survive intact over the tens of millions of years since T. rex existed.

Mary Schweitzer's T-Rex

According to the paper Comment on “Protein Sequences from Mastodon and Tyrannosaurus rex Revealed by Mass Spectrometry” 2, the high temperatures in the Hell Creek formation during the time of Tyrannosaurus rex, estimated to be above 20°C (described as "megathermal"), would have significantly accelerated the degradation of collagen in T. rex fossils.  

Schweitzer: Soft tissues are preserved within hindlimb elements of Tyrannosaurus rex (Museum of the Rockies specimen 1125). Removal of the mineral phase reveals transparent, flexible, hollow blood vessels containing small round microstructures that can be expressed from the vessels into solution.

Commentary:  This suggests that the blood vessels themselves were not mineralized, but rather surrounded or covered by a mineral layer. The phrase "removal of the mineral phase" indicates that there was a mineralized layer or portion in the fossil remains, probably serving as an outer protective layer. When this mineral layer was removed through fossil preparation techniques, the soft, flexible blood vessels that were preserved beneath this layer were exposed. Therefore, the most likely interpretation is that these blood vessels were original soft tissues that were somehow exceptionally preserved and did not undergo direct permineralization. They remained in a soft, flexible state, but were covered or surrounded by an outer mineral layer that protected them from degradation over geological time. By carefully removing this outer mineral layer, the researchers were able to reveal the transparent and flexible blood vessels, along with the small round microstructures inside, which may represent remnants of blood cells or other preserved cellular structures. This finding is notable because soft tissues generally decompose quickly after the death of the organism unless they are preserved by special processes such as permineralization or preservation in amber. The discovery of flexible, apparently unmineralized blood vessels in an ancient fossil challenges conventional notions about the preservation of soft tissue in fossils and raises intriguing questions about the exceptional processes that may have occurred in this case.

The packing and stabilization of collagen fibrils increases the activation energy (Ea) for collagen degradation to 173 kJ/mol, making collagen more temperature-sensitive. At the mega thermal temperatures over 20°C proposed for the Hell Creek formation environment, the half-life of collagen (the time for half of it to degrade) is calculated to be only around 2,000 years. In contrast, for a cooler environment like the Doeden Gravel Beds with a mean temperature of 7.5°C, the half-life of collagen is much longer at around 130,000 years. This marked difference in collagen degradation rates highlights how the high temperatures of the Hell Creek formation during the Late Cretaceous would have been extremely unfavorable for the long-term preservation of intact collagen in T. rex fossils. The combination of collagen's intrinsic temperature sensitivity due to its tightly packed fibrillar structure, and the megathermal conditions of over 20°C, means any original collagen remaining in T. rex fossils would have degraded orders of magnitude faster compared to cooler environments. This accelerated degradation makes the likelihood of finding unaltered, original collagen in T. rex much lower than in fossils from cooler depositional settings. The high temperatures provide a plausible explanation for why collagen may not survive intact over the tens of millions of years since T. rex existed.

Proteins and other original biomolecules have been discovered in fossils dating back to the archaeological and Cenozoic eras (the last 66 million years). Various techniques like immunohistochemistry, radiocarbon dating, and protein sequencing have provided robust evidence for the presence of endogenous proteins, particularly collagen, in these fossils. For example, a single mammoth bone yielded 126 distinct protein types upon analysis.  Reports of preserved proteins in much older fossils from the Mesozoic era (252-66 million years ago) and earlier geological periods also deserve to be been met with skepticism. This skepticism arises from experimental data on the decay rates of molecules like collagen, which, as mentioned before, under ideal conditions, has a half-life of only around 130,000 years at 7.5°C. The presence of original collagen and other proteins in fossils challenges the conventional understanding of how old these fossils are. 

While most fossilized soft tissues are preserved via mineralization that replaces the original biochemistry, there have been some notable reports of apparent original biomolecules and tissues in Mesozoic fossils claimed to be dating back over 65 million years ago. One of the most well-known examples is the discovery of pliable soft tissue and protein residues like collagen, elastin, and laminin in a Tyrannosaurus rex femur from the Hell Creek Formation in 2005. Subsequent studies confirmed the presence of specific proteins like collagen by sequencing. Similar findings of original proteins and soft, flexible tissues were reported in other dinosaur fossils like Brachylophosaurus and Triceratops from the same geological formation. Electron microscopy studies have revealed exquisitely preserved structures like blood vessels, osteocytes with intact slender processes, and bundles of collagen fibers in dinosaur fossils. Immunological techniques also detected positive signals for proteins like collagen and even claims of remnant DNA in some dinosaur bones. Moving beyond dinosaurs, one study reported preserved skin pigments like carotenoids and melanins in a Psittacosaurus fossil from China, allowing reconstruction of its original coloration. Another revealed spectra consistent with endogenous proteins in a Jurassic sauropod embryo femur. The preservation of such labile biomolecules and soft tissues in specimens tens of millions of years old challenges conventional expectations of biochemical degradation over deep time. While these discoveries are rare, their existence has fueled ongoing debates about longevity of biomolecules and mechanisms that may permit their preservation in ancient fossils.

The gold standard for detecting original proteins in fossils is sequencing by mass spectrometry. Several studies have reported recovering short protein sequences, particularly collagen, from Cretaceous fossils claimed to be dating back around 65-145 million years ago. One of the earliest and most well-known examples is the 2007 report by Asara et al. of detecting six collagen peptide sequences, including GVQPP(OH)GPQGPR, from extracts of a T. rex femur bone. This was challenged by protein decay experts like Buckley and Collins, arguing collagen could not last that long based on experimental degradation data. However, the authors stood by their findings after re-analysis.

In 2009, collagen sequences like GLTGPIGPP(OH)GPAGAP(OH)GDKGEAGPSGPPGPTGAR were reported from a Brachylophosaurus fossil. Later work expanded the proteome to include other proteins like actin, tubulin and histone remnants.  those reported sequences from the Brachylophosaurus fossil are amino acid sequences. Specifically, the sequence: GLTGPIGPP(OH)GPAGAP(OH)GDKGEAGPSGPPGPTGAR. Represents the one-letter abbreviations for a sequence of 33 amino acids that would form part of a collagen protein. The letters stand for the following amino acids: G - Glycine L - Leucine T - Threonine P - Proline I - Isoleucine A - Alanine (OH) - Hydroxyproline  D - Aspartic Acid K - Lysine E - Glutamic Acid S - Serine R - Arginine. So this reported sequence from the dinosaur fossil is essentially the amino acid sequence that would form part of the collagen protein if it was preserved intact in the specimen. Being able to sequence out these specific amino acid patterns is considered strong evidence for the presence of original collagen protein fragments in the fossil. Other discoveries include non-collagen protein sequences from an Iguanodon bone and reports of amino acids recovered from fossils like Seismosaurus and even ancient fossil shells dating back to the Jurassic period supposedly around 200 million years ago.

While providing tantalizing evidence of original proteins from deep time, these reports have faced skepticism as they appear to contradict the theoretical kinetics and conventional wisdom that precludes persistence of proteins over multi-million year timescales. This has driven research into potential mechanisms that could extend protein longevity and preservation in fossils. 

Most paleozoic soft tissue data are recorded from mineralized or completely altered fossil material, with carbonaceous films often defining the overall morphology rather than retaining original biomolecules.  One of the earliest studies, conducted by Towe and Urbanek in 1972, employed wide-angle X-ray diffraction on Ordovician graptolite fossils. These small, worm-shaped marine creatures secrete tube-shaped organic thecae, thought to be composed of collagen or chitin. The researchers found collagen-like structures and detected some amino acids, although the absence of characteristic collagen markers like 4-hydroxyproline or 5-hydroxylysine prevented definitive identification of original collagen. Nonetheless, their results were consistent with altered collagenous or chitinous residues, suggesting that graptolite fossils, which occur worldwide, warrant further investigation. In a more recent study, X-ray absorption near edge structure (XANES) spectromicroscopy was used to examine organic functional group distributions in paleozoic scorpion and false scorpion exoskeletons. The findings were consistent with the preservation of original chitin and chitin-associated protein, further hinting at the potential for biomolecular preservation in ancient fossils. Surprisingly, a German and Russian team employed a suite of advanced analytical techniques, including fluorescence microscopy, Fourier Transform Infrared (FTIR) microscopy, high-performance capillary electrophoresis, high-pressure liquid chromatography, and mass spectroscopy, to identify chitin in the Burgess sponge fossil Vauxia gracilenta. Despite chitin being a labile biomolecule, its presence in these fossils challenges the prevailing paradigm that the flattened soft-bodied creatures from the Burgess Shale consist merely of impressions, mineralized outlines, or kerogen.

Surprising preservation has also been described in still-flexible, proteinaceous marine tube worm tubes extracted from Siberian drill core samples of Ediacaran strata. Moczydlowska described these worm casings as not mineralized and directly corresponding to the chitin-structural protein composition of modern siboglinid counterparts, further evidencing biomolecular preservation specimen supposedly hundreds of millions of years old. Plant fossils have also yielded intriguing evidence of retained original organics. FTIR spectra have revealed matches between altered biomolecular signatures in extant and extinct Cretaceous plant leaves, such as Araucarians, cycads, and Ginkgoales. Similarly, FTIR and Raman mapping of a completely permineralized Jurassic fern (Osmundaceae) revealed diagenetically altered organic cellular components 'frozen' in various stages of cell growth, providing a glimpse into the preservation of cellular structures. 

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Schwei11
Mary H. Schweitzer (2005): Soft-Tissue Vessels and Cellular Preservation in Tyrannosaurus rex Link 

Claims: The paper titled "A role for iron and oxygen chemistry in preserving soft tissues, cells and molecules from deep time" by Schweitzer et al. (2019) claimed that they found iron oxide mineral goethite (α-FeO(OH)), in association with remarkably preserved soft tissues recovered from Mesozoic dinosaur fossils. These findings, obtained through techniques like transmission electron microscopy and X-ray analysis, suggested that iron would have played a crucial role in the exceptional preservation of these soft tissues over millions of years. Iron chelation experiments revealed that removing iron from the fossil tissues dramatically increased their immunoreactivity to antibodies, indicating that iron was masking or obscuring the detection of preserved proteins. In an experimental model using ostrich blood vessels, treatment with hemoglobin increased tissue stability by over 200-fold, from approximately 3 days to over 2 years at room temperature. This remarkable preservation is proposed to occur through iron-mediated cross-linking or peroxidation reactions facilitated by the iron released from hemoglobin after death. The iron particles, potentially derived from the breakdown of hemoglobin and the formation of ferritin protein-caged iron biominerals, may have stabilized cell architecture and preserved intracellular components like DNA through iron-protein cross-links.  The iron-facilitated reactions would have contributed to the preservation of soft tissues after death, such as cross-linking and oxidation, would be a continuation of the role iron plays in facilitating essential biological processes during life, like oxygen transport. These findings would challenge the previous assumptions that soft tissues, including those containing collagen, could not survive over geological timescales spanning millions of years. The presence of iron from the breakdown of hemoglobin is proposed as a key factor that enabled the exceptional preservation of soft tissues in dinosaur fossils, including those of the iconic Tyrannosaurus rex. 7

The paper Soft tissues in fossil bone: Cells and soft tissues in fossil bone 3 makes claims regarding the Fenton reaction and its role in preserving soft tissues in fossil bones: Recent findings provide empirical support for Fenton reactions as a plausible mechanism for the preservation of blood vessels, cells, and soft tissues in fossil bones. Fenton reactions generate cross-links that stabilize biomolecules like collagen, facilitating their long-term preservation. Fenton reactions occur early in diagenesis (fossilization process) and are facilitated by oxidizing depositional environments and the presence of external concretions around the bones. Fenton chemistry provides a plausible explanation for soft tissue preservation even within the young-Earth creationist (YEC) paradigm, given the short time frame involved and the young age of fossils proposed by YECs. The paper rebuts arguments against Fenton reactions as a viable preservation mechanism, such as claims that blood clots would prevent iron from reaching cells or that fragmented osteocyte processes contradict Fenton reactions. Fenton reactions in bone cells undergoing iron overload generate ferroptosis, a form of cell death that damages but does not rupture the cell membrane, explaining the preservation of osteocyte morphology. The paper presents recent evidence supporting the role of Fenton reactions in facilitating the long-term preservation of soft tissues in fossil bones, addresses counterarguments, and suggests this mechanism is consistent with both old-Earth and young-Earth perspectives on fossil age.

The paper: Diagenesis of archaeological bone and tooth 4 discusses the preservation of soft tissues in fossils and the factors that influence their diagenesis (breakdown and alteration over time). Here are the key conclusions: Collagen and bone mineral are mutually protective, leading to the long-term survival of soft tissues like collagen in the burial environment. Disrupting this intimate association makes the soft tissues more susceptible to diagenesis Chemical processes like hydrolysis and collagenases remove proteins from the soft tissues over time. The resulting gap spaces get filled by mineral, while DNA gets denatured and binds to the newly formed mineral surfaces. Cooler temperatures slow down the loss of DNA compared to warmer temperatures. Soil pH also impacts DNA preservation. Cross-linking between collagen molecules and with organic contaminants contributes to the preservation of soft tissues during diagenesis. Fenton reactions (oxidation reactions involving iron) are proposed as a plausible mechanism for early preservation of soft tissues in bones, facilitated by oxidizing environments and protective factors like external concretions. Over long timescales, the preserved bone mineral itself undergoes diagenesis, with the original composition decreasing through time. However, a fraction retains its original elemental makeup even in very old fossils. The paper highlights the complex interplay of chemical, environmental, and mineral factors that can enable the exceptional preservation of soft tissues like collagen and DNA in fossils over geological timescales, sometimes for millions of years.


Response:  Recent scientific investigations have cast doubt on the proposed role of iron in preserving soft tissues within dinosaur fossils over millions of years. Iron released from proteins like hemoglobin after an organism's death may play a crucial role in preserving soft tissues and biomolecules, possibly through mechanisms like free-radical-mediated fixation and antimicrobial activity. Experiments by Dr. Mary Schweitzer's team showed that treating ostrich blood vessels with hemoglobin increased their stability by over 200-fold, from around 3 days to over 2 years at room temperature, potentially due to iron-mediated cross-linking or peroxidation reactions. The presence of iron particles (goethite) associated with preserved soft tissues in dinosaur fossils suggests that iron released from hemoglobin after death could have contributed to the exceptional preservation of these tissues over alleged millions of years.  However, the Fenton reaction, which involves iron catalyzing the production of reactive oxygen species (ROS) from hydrogen peroxide, is generally destructive to biological materials, causing oxidative damage and degradation of biomolecules. Over millions of years, the continual production of ROS would likely result in the complete breakdown of organic molecules, contradicting the observed preservation. The Maillard reaction, which involves the non-enzymatic browning and cross-linking of proteins and sugars, typically results in the formation of complex, brown-colored polymers. While this process can contribute to short-term stabilization, it does not account for the preservation of fine cellular structures and proteins over geological timescales. Additionally, the conditions required for the Maillard reaction are not consistently present in fossilization environments, limiting its effectiveness as a preservation mechanism over extended periods.

Experimental limitations also cast doubt on the iron-preservation hypothesis. The experiments involving iron chelation and hemoglobin treatment, such as those using ostrich blood vessels, are conducted over relatively short durations and cannot be directly extrapolated to the millions of years required for fossilization. The increased tissue stability observed in these experiments may not reflect natural fossilization processes, which involve complex and variable environmental factors. Iron chelation experiments revealed that removing iron from dinosaur fossil tissues increased their immunoreactivity to antibodies, indicating that iron was masking or obscuring the detection of preserved proteins. However, this does not necessarily imply that iron was responsible for their preservation over geological timescales. The preservation of soft tissues in some dinosaur fossils might instead be attributed to rapid burial and anoxic conditions, which limit microbial activity and slow down decomposition. Additionally, mineralization processes, wherein tissues are replaced or infilled by minerals like silica or phosphate, are known to contribute to the exceptional preservation observed in some fossil specimens.   Advanced analytical techniques have prompted a reevaluation of previously identified "proteins" in fossils. Some of these findings may be artifacts or contaminants introduced during sample preparation and analysis. The survival of genuine biomolecules over millions of years remains a subject of active research, with ongoing debates about the mechanisms and conditions that could allow for such preservation. While the hypothesis that iron, through the Fenton and Maillard reactions, is responsible for the preservation of soft tissues in dinosaur fossils over millions of years initially seemed promising, it is not sufficiently supported by current scientific evidence. The destructive nature of these reactions over extended periods, coupled with experimental limitations and alternative preservation mechanisms, suggests that other factors, such as rapid burial, anoxic conditions, and mineralization processes, are more likely responsible for the exceptional fossilization of soft tissues in dinosaurs.

One major issue is the inadequacy of the Fenton reaction, which is generally destructive to biological materials rather than preserving them. The continual production of reactive oxygen species from the Fenton reaction over millions of years would likely lead to the complete breakdown of organic molecules, contradicting the observed preservation of soft tissues. Additionally, while the Maillard reaction can contribute to short-term stabilization, it typically results in complex polymers that do not account for the preservation of fine cellular structures and protein sequences over geological timescales. The conditions required for the Maillard reaction are also not consistently met in fossilization environments. Furthermore, the experiments on iron chelation and hemoglobin treatment were conducted over relatively short durations and cannot be extrapolated to millions of years. The increased stability observed may not reflect the complex variables involved in natural fossilization processes. Moreover, advanced analytical techniques have prompted a re-evaluation of previously identified "proteins" in fossils, with some findings potentially being artifacts or contaminants, raising questions about the preservation of original biomolecules over millions of years. While iron chelation revealed that iron was masking protein detection, this does not necessarily mean iron was responsible for preserving them over geological timescales. Alternative explanations like rapid burial, anoxic conditions, and mineralization processes are more likely responsible for the exceptional preservation observed in some dinosaur fossils. Fossilization is a complex process involving numerous factors, and attributing soft tissue preservation solely to iron-mediated reactions oversimplifies the process. Ongoing research and integration of multiple lines of evidence are necessary to fully understand the preservation of biomolecules and soft tissues over extended geological periods.


Challenges in Identifying Mechanisms for Protein Longevity and Preservation in Fossils

The attempts to identify mechanisms that could extend protein longevity and preservation in fossils, such as the claim that iron could play a role in this process, have not proven to be fruitful for several reasons: Proteins are complex biomolecules that are highly susceptible to various forms of degradation, including hydrolysis, oxidation, and microbial digestion. Over geological timescales, these processes lead to the complete breakdown of proteins, making their survival extremely unlikely. Even under the most favorable preservation conditions, the intrinsic instability of proteins suggests that they would undergo significant alterations or complete degradation over millions or hundreds of millions of years. Despite numerous claims and hypotheses, there is a glaring lack of conclusive empirical evidence to support the effectiveness of proposed preservation mechanisms, such as the role of iron. Most claims are based on theoretical considerations or indirect evidence rather than direct experimental validation. Attempts to recreate or simulate ancient preservation conditions in laboratory settings have not consistently demonstrated the long-term stability of proteins, further questioning the viability of these hypotheses. Techniques such as mass spectrometry and immunoassays, although powerful, have limitations in accurately identifying and characterizing highly degraded or altered proteins in fossil samples. The sensitivity of current analytical methods may not be sufficient to detect trace amounts of original proteins, especially when they have undergone extensive diagenetic alteration.
Fossils are often subject to contamination from various sources, including modern organisms, laboratory environments, and handling processes. This contamination can introduce extraneous biomolecules, complicating the identification of original proteins. Chemical, physical, and biological processes during fossilization (diagenesis) can significantly alter the original biomolecular composition of fossils. These alterations can mask or mimic the presence of ancient proteins, leading to potential misinterpretations. The scientific community has subjected many claims regarding protein preservation in fossils to rigorous scrutiny. Given the extraordinary nature of these claims, the evidence provided thus far has not been compelling enough to overcome the inherent challenges associated with long-term protein preservation. As Carl Sagan famously stated, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." The existing data and methodologies have not provided the extraordinary evidence needed to substantiate the long-term preservation of proteins in fossils. While the quest to understand the mechanisms of biomolecular preservation in fossils is scientifically intriguing, the attempts made so far, including those involving iron, have not yielded conclusive and widely accepted results. These efforts are often viewed as speculative or as attempts to support a desired outcome rather than being firmly grounded in empirical evidence and rigorous scientific validation. The challenges of protein degradation, limitations of analytical techniques, contamination, diagenetic alterations, and the need for extraordinary evidence collectively underscore the difficulties in substantiating the long-term preservation of proteins in ancient fossils.

Another striking case is the discovery of a fossilized mosquito found in Canadian amber, claimed to be around 79 million years old based on traditional dating methods. Remarkably, this ancient mosquito still contained preserved blood cells and fragments of vertebrate blood, complete with identifiable remnants of hemoglobin and other proteins. The preservation of such biological structures for tens of millions of years defies conventional expectations and raises questions about the accuracy of the assigned ages.

Following, an even older example of a mosquito, supposedly 130mio old, found in Lebanon:

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Science-mosquito

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Science-mosquito
Thomson Reuters (2023): Oldest mosquito in amber reveals bloodsucking surprise Link

Researchers found two supposedly 130 million-year-old male mosquito fossils preserved in amber from Lebanon. This makes them the oldest known mosquito fossils discovered. Surprisingly, these ancient male mosquitoes possessed elongated mouth parts adapted for piercing and blood-feeding, a trait only modern female mosquitoes have. This suggests that in the earlier mosquitoes, both males and females were capable of blood-feeding behavior. While the discovery of these ancient mosquito fossils is certainly fascinating, the claimed age of 130 million years for these specimens is highly unlikely and inconsistent with our current scientific understanding.  Oldest known mosquito fossils: Prior to this study, the oldest known mosquito fossils were from the Cretaceous period, around 79 million years ago.  While amber can preserve exquisite detail, precise dating of amber specimens is often challenging, with potential uncertainties.During the early Cretaceous period, around 130 million years ago, the earliest flowering plants (angiosperms) were supposedly just starting to diversify. Since mosquitoes would have evolved from plant-feeding ancestors, as suggested by the researchers, their origin would have to be more recent, coinciding with the radiation of flowering plants.

From a molecular standpoint, it is highly improbable that amber could remain intact for millions of years due to the inherent instability and degradation processes that occur over such vast timescales.  Amber is composed of cross-linked polymers derived from ancient tree resins. Like all polymers, these long-chain molecules are susceptible to various degradation processes over time, including oxidation, chain scission, depolymerization, and cross-linking reactions. These processes gradually break down the polymer structure, leading to changes in physical and chemical properties. Polymers are generally metastable materials that are thermodynamically driven towards equilibrium states. Over geological timescales and exposure to heat (even at relatively low temperatures), the kinetic barriers to polymer degradation can be overcome, leading to gradual breakdown of the molecular structure. Exposure to ionizing radiation from natural radioactive elements in the environment can cause polymer chain scission, cross-linking, and other molecular-level damage to amber. Water molecules can potentially diffuse into the amber matrix over time, leading to hydrolysis reactions that cleave polymer chains and alter the molecular structure. While amber is known for its preservative properties, microorganisms capable of slowly degrading polymers may still be present, contributing to gradual deterioration over vast timescales. The exquisite preservation of fossils in amber relies on the integrity of the polymer matrix. However, over millions of years, the cumulative effects of these degradation processes would inevitably compromise the molecular structure of amber, leading to loss of preservative properties and the eventual destruction of any enclosed fossils.

The empirical data from NMR, mass spectrometry, IR spectroscopy, and other analytical techniques unequivocally show that amber undergoes significant chemical changes over geological timescales. These changes include oxidation, chain scission, depolymerization, cross-linking, and effects from ionizing radiation and microbial activity. Collectively, these processes lead to the gradual degradation of amber, compromising its ability to preserve enclosed fossils over millions of years. The studies cited provide robust experimental evidence supporting these conclusions, presenting a clear picture of the molecular instability and degradation of amber. Given the empirical data, it becomes clear that while amber can remain relatively stable for tens of thousands of years, its chemical stability over millions of years is highly questionable. The degradation processes described suggest that significant molecular changes occur well within the first ten thousand years, compromising the amber's integrity and preservative properties. Therefore, a more realistic estimate for the preservation of amber, considering the molecular degradation evidence, would be in the range of tens of thousands of years. Claims of amber preserving biological materials for millions of years are not supported by the empirical data on polymer stability and degradation. This understanding aligns with the observed chemical changes in amber samples over geological timescales and highlights the limitations of its preservative capabilities over such extended periods.

If the conventional timescales were accurate, one would expect to find a clear pattern of soft tissue preservation in younger fossils, with older fossils exhibiting progressively less preservation of organic materials. However, the presence of non-permineralized soft tissues in fossils spanning millions of years, from the Cambrian to the Cretaceous periods, challenges this expectation. The remarkable preservation of soft tissues in these ancient fossils suggests that the proposed timescales may be vastly overestimated. It is highly improbable for such delicate organic structures to remain intact for hundreds of millions of years, given the natural processes of decay and mineralization that should have occurred. An alternative perspective, proposing a much more recent origin for these fossils, aligns better with the observed evidence. If these fossils were formed thousands, maximum up to ten thousand years ago, rather than millions or hundreds of millions of years ago, the preservation of soft tissues becomes more plausible. This alternative explanation circumvents the need for exceptional preservation mechanisms to maintain these delicate structures over vast eons.

Furthermore, the presence of soft tissues in fossils across various geological periods suggests a more catastrophic and widespread burial process, rather than the gradual accumulation proposed by conventional models. A rapid, large-scale event capable of burying and preserving organisms en masse, before significant decay or mineralization could occur, provides a more coherent explanation for the observed soft tissue preservation. The discovery of non-permineralized soft tissues in fossils spanning vast geological periods raises significant challenges to the conventional timescales proposed for the fossil record. These findings suggest a more recent origin for these fossils, potentially thousands or tens of thousands of years ago, rather than millions or hundreds of millions of years. An alternative perspective, considering a catastrophic, widespread burial event, better aligns with the observed evidence and provides a more plausible explanation for the exceptional preservation of these delicate organic structures.

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Geolog12
Geological Distribution of Reported Original Biochemistry in Fossils. This chart emphasizes Mesozoic and Paleozoic rock Systems, as it condenses the entire Cenozoic at the top, and the entire Precambrian at the bottom down to merely the Ediacaran and Orosirian Systems. The data reveal a predominance of biochemistry in Cretaceous System rocks, and a persistent trickle of biochemistry elsewhere.

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Biofos11
Global Distribution of Original Biochemistry Fossils. Approximately seventy original biochemistry fossil locations show a nonrandom worldwide distribution. High concentrations likely reflect a combination of sample accessibility and general fossil distributions. Image credit: Thomas, B. and S. Taylor. 2019. Proteomes of the past: the pursuit of proteins in paleontology. Expert Review of Proteomics. 16 (11-12): 881-895.

1. Thomas, B. and Taylor, S. (2019) Proteomes of the past: the pursuit of proteins in paleontology. Expert Review of Proteomics, 16(11-12), pp.881-895. doi: 10.1080/14789450.2019.1700114.
2. Buckley, M., Walker, A., Ho, S. Y. W., Yang, Y., Smith, C., Ashton, P., ... & Collins, M. J. (2008). Protein Sequences from Mastodon and Tyrannosaurus rex Revealed by Mass Spectrometry. Science, 319(5859), 33. DOI: 10.1126/science.1147046. Link (This paper reports the detection of collagen protein sequences from a 68-million-year-old Tyrannosaurus rex fossil bone, as well as a 160,000-year-old mastodon bone, using mass spectrometry techniques.)
3. Senter, P.J. (2022). Soft tissues in fossil bone: Cells and soft tissues in fossil bone: A review of preservation mechanisms, with corrections of misconceptions. Article number: 25.3.a34. https://doi.org/10.26879/1248. Link. (This paper reviews the mechanisms by which cells and soft tissues can be preserved in fossil bones, and addresses common misconceptions about such preservation.)
4. Kendall, Christopher, Eriksen, Anne Marie Høier, Kontopoulos, Ioannis et al. (2 more authors) (2018) Diagenesis of archaeological bone and tooth. Palaeogeography palaeoclimatology palaeoecology. pp. 21-37. ISSN 0031-0182 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.palaeo.2017.11.041
5. Yao-Chang Lee, Cheng-Cheng Chiang, Pei-Yu Huang, Chao-Yu Chung, Timothy D. Huang, Chun-Chieh Wang, Ching-Iue Chen, Rong-Seng Chang, Cheng-Hao Liao & Robert R. Reisz (2017). Evidence of preserved collagen in an Early Jurassic sauropodomorph dinosaur revealed by synchrotron FTIR microspectroscopy. Nature Communications, 8, 14220. Link. (This paper provides evidence of preserved collagen in an Early Jurassic sauropodomorph dinosaur, revealed through synchrotron FTIR microspectroscopy, shedding light on the preservation of organic remains in ancient fossils.)
6. Andrés Alfonso-Rojas & Edwin-Alberto Cadena (2020). Exceptionally preserved 'skin' in an Early Cretaceous fish from Colombia. PeerJ, 8, e9479. Link. (This paper reports the exceptional preservation of putative skin structures in an Early Cretaceous fish fossil from Colombia, providing insights into the fossilization processes that can preserve soft tissues over geological timescales.)
7. Mary H. Schweitzer, Wenxia Zheng, Timothy P. Cleland, Mark B. Goodwin, Elizabeth Boatman, Elizabeth Theil, Matthew A. Marcus, & Sirine C. Fakra (2014). A role for iron and oxygen chemistry in preserving soft tissues, cells and molecules from deep time. Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences, 281(1775), 20132741. Link. (This paper proposes that iron and oxygen chemistry play a crucial role in the exceptional preservation of soft tissues, cells, and molecules in ancient fossils, challenging the assumptions that such biomaterials cannot survive over geological timescales.)
8. Alleon, J., Bernard, S., Le Guillou, C., Marin-Carbonne, J., Pont, S., Beyssac, O., McKeegan, K.D., & Robert, F. (2016). Molecular preservation of 1.88 Ga Gunflint organic microfossils as a function of temperature and mineralogy. Nature Communications, 7, 11977. Link. (This study examines the exceptional molecular preservation of 1.88 billion-year-old Gunflint microfossils, exploring how temperature and mineralogy affect the preservation of organic molecules in ancient fossils.)
9. Bada, J.L., Wang, X.S., & Hamilton, H. (1999). Preservation of key biomolecules in the fossil record: current knowledge and future challenges. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London. Series B: Biological Sciences, 354(1379), 77-87. Link. (This paper presents a model for understanding the preservation of amino acids and DNA in fossil specimens, discussing the diagenetic processes affecting biomolecule survival over geological time.)
10. Han, X., Tolu, J., Deng, L., Fiskal, A., Schubert, C.J., Winkel, L.H.E., & Lever, M.A. (2022). Long-term preservation of biomolecules in lake sediments: potential importance of physical shielding by recalcitrant cell walls. PNAS Nexus, 1(3), pgac076. Link. (This study investigates the preservation of biomolecules in lake sediments over geological timescales, highlighting the role of recalcitrant cell walls in protecting organic matter from degradation.)
11. Grupe, G., & Harbeck, M. (2015). Taphonomic and Diagenetic Processes. In W. Henke & I. Tattersall (Eds.), Handbook of Paleoanthropology (pp. 417-439). Springer, Berlin, Heidelberg. Link. (This chapter provides a comprehensive overview of taphonomic and diagenetic processes affecting skeletal remains, discussing factors influencing bone preservation and the impact on paleoanthropological research.)
12. Anderson, L.A. (2023). A chemical framework for the preservation of fossil vertebrate cells and soft tissues. Earth-Science Reviews, 240, 104367. Link. (This review paper presents a comprehensive chemical framework for understanding the preservation of cells and soft tissues in vertebrate fossils, discussing various preservation mechanisms and their implications for paleontology.)
13. Ullmann, P.V., Voegele, K.K., & Lacovara, K.J. (2023). Actualistic Testing of the Influence of Groundwater Chemistry on Degradation of Collagen I in Bone. Minerals, 13(5), 596. Link. (This study investigates how different groundwater chemistries affect the degradation of collagen I in bone, revealing that iron significantly accelerates collagen degradation while calcium carbonate may aid in preservation.)



Last edited by Otangelo on Fri Jun 21, 2024 6:09 pm; edited 14 times in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin

Evidence of Marine Life in High-Elevation Salty Lakes: Implications of a Past Global Flood Event

Here is a list of some salty lakes around the world that contain marine life, along with their locations and elevations above sea level:

1. Lake Van, Turkey - 1,662 meters (5,454 ft) above sea level - Contains the darekh fish species, a type of herring typically found in the Atlantic Ocean
2. Lake Titicaca, Peru/Bolivia - 3,812 meters (12,507 ft) above sea level - Contains marine crustaceans, as demonstrated by Alexander Agassiz in 1875
3. Lake Tuz, Turkey - 899 meters (2,949 ft) above sea level  
4. Lake Uvs Nuur, Mongolia - 759 meters (2,491 ft) above sea level
5. Lake Rudolf (Lake Turkana), Kenya - 375 meters (1,230 ft) above sea level
6. Great Salt Lake, Utah, United States - 1,278 meters (4,193 ft) above sea level - Contains brine shrimp and other marine organisms
7. Lake Issyk-Kul, Kyrgyzstan - 1,609 meters (5,279 ft) above sea level - Contains marine life like gammarus and other crustaceans
8. Aral Sea, Kazakhstan/Uzbekistan - 53 meters (174 ft) above sea level - Contains marine species like flounder and marine crustaceans
9. Caspian Sea, Central Asia - Currently 28 meters (92 ft) below sea level - Contains both marine and freshwater species due to its unique salinity levels
10. Lake Urmia, Iran - 1,275 meters (4,183 ft) above sea level - Contains brine shrimp and other marine organisms

Some of these lakes, like the Caspian Sea and the Aral Sea, have varying salinity levels and a mix of marine and freshwater species. The presence of typically marine organisms in these inland, high-elevation lakes is evidence of a past global flood event.

The sedimentary rock layers that make up much of the Earth's crust provide powerful evidence that they were laid down by moving waters on a immense, global scale. As stated, most sedimentary rocks containing fossils were formed from sediments deposited by operating waters. This points to the reality of a past worldwide inundation that allowed such rock layers to form across the planet. Even more striking is the discovery of marine fossil remains at incredibly high elevations in massive mountain ranges like the Himalayas and the Andes. The fact that ocean-dwelling creatures like fish skeletons and mollusk shells have been found fossilized in the rocks of these towering heights is an unmistakable signal that even the highest peaks were once underwater.  The accounts of gigantic fossilized oyster specimens found at over 3,750 meters (12,300 feet) in the Peruvian Andes provides vivid evidence that these mountains were once submerged under oceanic waters that far exceeded modern sea levels. Oysters simply could not and did not live at such extreme elevations - their preservation in rock materials high atop the Andes confirms this region was underwater during a time of catastrophic global flooding.

The sheer thickness, extent and marine contents of sedimentary rock layers blanketing continents and reaching up to the highest mountain summits cannot be explained by any local, regional processes known today. Only a rapid, planetary inundation event of the magnitude described in the biblical account of Noah's Flood can account for this physical evidence observed in the rock record. The sedimentary rocks and marine fossils atop high mountain ranges are precisely what one would expect to result from such a world-engulfing deluge. The mainstream scientific narrative proposes non-catastrophic explanations for the sedimentary rocks and marine fossils found in high mountain ranges like the Himalayas and Andes. Geologists argue that over incredibly long time periods spanning hundreds of millions of years, the processes of plate tectonics, mountain uplift, and changing sea levels can account for these phenomena: Many of these regions were once seafloors or coastal areas when the sea levels were higher in the geological past. Marine sediments were deposited in these areas, burying and preserving marine life as fossils. Slow uplift of tectonic plates gradually raised these fossiliferous layers to high elevations forming mountain ranges over millions of years. Erosion has exposed some of these ancient marine sedimentary layers and fossils on the highest peaks we see today.

Why is this narrative Implausible?

Such slow, gradual processes over millions of years seem inadequate to explain the truly catastrophic, massive scale of sediment deposition required to bury entire continents and seamounts under miles of sedimentary rocks containing marine fossils. The remarkable preservation of intact, articulated marine fossils argues against the idea of slow, gradual burial over long timescales. The worldwide distribution and consistent marine fauna across continents seems to defy explanations of localized seas and basins. Folding, faulting and overthrust patterns in many mountain ranges are more consistent with rapid large-scale tectonics associated with a catastrophic flooding event. While conventional geology attributes these features to slow "uniformitarian" processes over eons, creationists see the evidence as more indicative of catastrophic large-scale flooding on a planetary level that rapidly buried and uplifted fossiliferous sediments during a biblical deluge.

Marine fossils found in high latitudes, and high in mountains

These are quite common and provide important evidence for geological processes like plate tectonics and mountain formation. The presence of marine fossils high above current sea levels stands as compelling evidence supporting the Biblical account of a global flood. This phenomenon, observed across continents, provides a tangible link between geological findings and the historical narrative presented in Genesis. 

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Sem_ad10
 Fenestellid bryozoan from the Redwall Limestone, Grand Canyon; 5 centimeters (2 inches) wide Link 

On every continent, we discover fossils of sea creatures embedded in rock layers far above present-day oceans. A prime example is the Grand Canyon, where marine fossils are found throughout its rock layers, including the Kaibab Limestone at the canyon's rim, approximately 7,000–8,000 feet above sea level. This limestone, despite its lofty position, was once submerged beneath ocean waters teeming with lime sediment that covered northern Arizona and beyond. The Redwall Limestone in the Grand Canyon offers further evidence, housing a diverse array of marine fossils including brachiopods, corals, bryozoans, crinoids, bivalves, gastropods, trilobites, cephalopods, and fish teeth. The chaotic preservation of these fossils, such as separated crinoid columnals, suggests a catastrophic event that rapidly buried these creatures in lime sediment.

Even more striking are the marine fossils found in the Himalayas, Earth's highest mountain range. Limestone beds in Nepal, reaching altitudes of up to 29,029 feet, contain fossilized ammonites. The presence of these ocean-dwelling creatures at such extreme elevations raises questions about Earth's geological history. To explain this phenomenon, we must consider that these rock layers were deposited during a global flood event, prior to the formation of today's mountain ranges. The uplift of these mountains, including the Himalayas, likely occurred towards the end of this flood period. This sequence of events aligns with the description in Psalm 104:8, which speaks of flood waters receding down valleys as mountains rose. The only plausible explanation for marine fossils at high elevations is that ocean waters once covered the continents. However, this couldn't have occurred due to the continents sinking, as they are composed of less dense rocks than the ocean floor and mantle, causing them to naturally "float" above sea level.

Instead, two mechanisms must have been at work. First, water was added to the oceans. This aligns with the Biblical account in Genesis 7:11, which describes the "fountains of the great deep" breaking open, releasing water from within the Earth. Second, the ocean floor itself rose. This could have been caused by the release of molten rock during the catastrophic breakup of the Earth's crust, as alluded to in Genesis. The less-dense molten rock would have expanded, effectively raising the ocean floor and pushing sea levels up by more than 3,500 feet. As the flood waters receded, likely due to cooling and sinking of the new ocean floor, the water drained off the continents into deeper ocean basins. This process, along with the rising of mountains, is consistent with the description in Psalm 104:8 and explains the relatively recent and rapid ascent of today's mountain ranges to their current heights. This model provides a coherent explanation for the global distribution of marine fossils at high elevations. It demonstrates how billions of sea creatures could have been rapidly buried in sediments deposited by flood waters that covered the continents. The fossilized remains of these marine organisms, found in rock layers thousands of feet above current sea levels, serve as silent witnesses to this monumental event in Earth's history, corroborating the historical account preserved in ancient texts.





Ammonites

More: 
https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t3422-ammonite-fossils

Based on an evolutionary deep time timeline, ammonites are an extinct group of marine mollusks belonging to the subclass Ammonoidea, which is part of the class Cephalopoda. Their origin dates back to the Devonian period, around 400 million years ago. Ammonites thrived in the oceans until their extinction at the end of the Cretaceous period, about 66 million years ago, coinciding with the same event that wiped out the dinosaurs. Based on an evolutionary deep time timeline, modern cephalopods, such as squids, octopuses, and cuttlefish, are the closest living relatives of ammonites. These contemporary cephalopods share several characteristics with ammonites, including their basic body plan, advanced nervous systems, and predatory lifestyle. However, unlike their shelled ancestors, many modern cephalopods have either internalized their shells or lost them entirely, an adaptation that has allowed for greater mobility and a wider range of ecological niches. Based on an evolutionary deep time timeline, ammonites belong to the phylum Mollusca, which includes a diverse range of organisms such as gastropods (snails and slugs), bivalves (clams and oysters), and other cephalopods. Within Mollusca, cephalopods are distinguished by their bilateral body symmetry, prominent head, and set of arms or tentacles. Ammonites, as part of the subclass Ammonoidea, are a branch of the cephalopod class, separate from the lineages that led to modern cephalopods. Ammonites are important for understanding the geological and evolutionary history of marine environments. Their widespread presence make them excellent index fossils, helping geologists to date rock layers and understand the paleoenvironmental conditions of different geological periods. The study of ammonite fossils continues to provide valuable insights into the diversity and adaptability of life in ancient oceans.

Alps

The Dolomites in Italy, part of the Southern Limestone Alps, are renowned for their ammonite fossils. The Raibl Beds near the Austrian-Italian border have yielded exceptionally well-preserved ammonites. The Dolomites in northern Italy are renowned for their rich fossil record, particularly the ammonites found in the Raibl Beds (also known as the Raibl Formation or Pordoi Formation) near the Austrian-Italian border. These sedimentary rocks have yielded exceptionally well-preserved ammonite fossils.

The Spiti Valley in the Indian Himalayas

The Spiti Valley, located in the Indian state of Himachal Pradesh, is indeed renowned for its rich ammonite fossil deposits, particularly within the "Spiti Shales" formation. The Spiti Shales are part of the Tethyan Himalayan sequence, representing sediments deposited in the ancient Tethys Ocean before the collision of the Indian and Eurasian plates. While ammonites are the most famous fossils from this formation, it also contains other marine invertebrates such as belemnites, brachiopods, and bivalves. The fossils in the Spiti Shales are often exceptionally well-preserved, sometimes retaining original shell material or showing fine details of the suture patterns. The Spiti ammonite fauna has been crucial for biostratigraphic correlations across the Tethyan realm, helping geologists understand the paleogeography and evolution of life during this time period.  The presence of abundant ammonites suggests that the Spiti region was once covered by a relatively deep marine environment. Paleontologists continue to study the Spiti Shales, often discovering new species or gaining insights into ancient ecosystems.

The villages of Komic, Mud, Hikkim (home to the world's highest post office), Langza, and Lalung are situated along a belt of sediment rich in fossilized remains. In Nepal, ammonites - marine cephalopods with distinctive spiral shells - can be found along the bed of the Kali Gandaki River. Even more remarkably, climbers who have reached the summit of Mount Everest have brought back rocks containing fossils of sea lilies. These discoveries paint a picture of the Himalayas' history. It's challenging to imagine that this vast expanse of weather-beaten land was once a thriving ocean bed, teeming with fish and other marine life. To understand how this transformation occurred, we need to examine the formation of the Himalayas. The story begins with a massive geological event known as Continental Drift. Prior to this event, the world's landmasses were configured very differently from what we see today. There were supercontinents - enormous landmasses that included the continents we now recognize. India was part of a supercontinent called Gondwanaland, which also included Australia, Africa, Antarctica, and South America.

The layered rocks of the Himalayas still contain abundant fossils of the creatures that once inhabited the Tethys Sea, as well as remnants of coral reefs and marine plants. These fossil discoveries provide compelling evidence about the origin of the Himalayas and reveal an astounding fact: the path to the roof of the world was once deep under an ocean! This geological narrative showcases the dramatic changes our planet has undergone. It illustrates how areas now far above sea level were once ocean floors, and how the movement of landmasses can result in the formation of the world's highest mountains. The presence of marine fossils high in the Himalayas serves as a tangible reminder of Earth's dynamic nature and the profound transformations that have shaped our world.

Ammonite fossils in the Los Molles Formation of the Neuquén Basin, Argentina

The discovery of exceptionally well-preserved ammonite fossils in Argentina provides an invaluable window into the marine ecosystems in this region.

The Neuquén Basin, situated in the foothills of the mighty Andes mountain range, is renowned for its rich paleontological heritage. The Los Molles Formation, a sedimentary rock unit within this basin, has proven to be an exceptional repository of ammonite fossils, offering researchers a rare opportunity to study these extinct marine creatures in remarkable detail. Ammonites were a group of highly diverse and widespread cephalopods that thrived in the ancient oceans. Cephalopods are a group of marine mollusks that includes squids, octopuses, cuttlefishes, and nautiluses. They are characterized by having a distinct head, large eyes, and tentacles arranged around their mouth. Their coiled shells, adorned with patterns and ridges, have become iconic fossils for paleontologists. The exceptional preservation of the Los Molles ammonites means that not only are the shells intact, but also delicate features like the suture patterns and even remnants of the soft body tissues have been preserved.

This exceptional preservation is attributed to the unique depositional environment of the Los Molles Formation, which was likely a deep, anoxic (oxygen-depleted) marine basin. The lack of oxygen slowed the decomposition process, allowing the ammonite remains to be entombed and fossilized with remarkable fidelity. The diversity of ammonite species found in the Los Molles Formation is equally remarkable. Researchers have identified various genera, including Arietites, Oxynoticeras, and Uptonia, among others. This diversity provides insights into the radiation, as well as the ecological niches they occupied in the ancient oceans. Furthermore, the abundance of ammonite fossils in the Los Molles Formation suggests that these creatures were thriving in the region, indicating favorable environmental conditions and a rich marine ecosystem. The study of associated fossil assemblages, including other invertebrates and marine reptiles, can shed light on the web of life that existed in the seas of the Neuquén Basin. The Los Molles ammonite fossils not only contribute to our understanding of these extinct creatures but also provide a glimpse into the broader paleoenvironmental and paleoclimatic conditions. By studying the sedimentary rocks, geochemical signatures, and fossil assemblages, researchers can reconstruct the ancient landscapes, ocean currents, and climatic patterns that shaped the region during this pivotal period in Earth's history. These ammonite fossils high in the mountains provide compelling evidence for the massive geological changes that have occurred over millions of years, demonstrating how ancient seabeds have been uplifted to form some of the world's highest mountain ranges.

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Ammoni10
The Agrio Formation is an Early Cretaceous geologic formation that is up to 1,500 metres (4,900 ft) thick and is located in the southern Mendoza Province and northern-central Neuquén Province, in the Neuquén Basin of northwestern Patagonia, Argentina  Link 

The ammonite fossils found in the Los Molles Formation of the Neuquén Basin in Argentina are indeed fascinating and provide valuable insights into ancient marine ecosystems. However, your question touches on some of the challenges in explaining their origins and diversity through gradual evolutionary processes. Let's explore some of these aspects:

Brachiopods: shelled marine animals found in the Rocky Mountains and the Appalachians

Brachiopods are remarkable shelled marine animals. These creatures, often mistaken for clams or other bivalve mollusks, have a rich history. Despite their superficial resemblance to bivalves, brachiopods are a distinct group of animals, characterized by their two unequal valves and a unique feeding structure called a lophophore. Brachiopods dominated the world's oceans, thriving in an astonishing array of shapes and sizes. Their abundance and diversity in the fossil record is a testament to their success, with over 12,000 known fossil species gracing the annals of prehistoric life. This profusion of forms makes them invaluable to geologists as index fossils, helping to unravel the relative ages of rock layers in which they're entombed. Today, when we find brachiopod fossils nestled within the majestic folds of mountain ranges like the Rockies or the Appalachians, we're glimpsing a world long past—one where these very peaks were the floor of ancient seas. It's a humbling reminder of our planet's ceaseless transformation, as tectonic forces have lifted these former ocean beds high into the sky. Though their glory days are behind them, brachiopods didn't vanish entirely. They weathered the cataclysmic extinction event, albeit with greatly diminished numbers. In our modern oceans, around 350-500 species persist, often overlooked due to their modest size and penchant for colder, deeper waters. These living representatives, though few, offer invaluable insights into the biology and ecology of their long-gone relatives. Attached to the seabed by a fleshy stalk called a pedicle, contemporary brachiopods continue their ancient tradition of filter feeding, their lophophores sifting microscopic morsels from the surrounding water. While they may lack the diversity of their Paleozoic ancestors, their endurance is a testament to the resilience of life. From the rock-strewn slopes of mountains to the dusky depths of today's oceans, brachiopods weave a tale of survival, adaptation, and the inexorable passage of time. They invite us to ponder the vast changes our planet has undergone and serve as humble yet eloquent narrators of Earth's dynamic history.

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Brachi10
Brachiopods are sessile marine invertebrates characterized by their bivalve shells and ciliated tentacles surrounding the mouth. Though their shells resemble those of bivalve mollusks, their body structure is distinctly different, placing them in a separate phylum, Brachiopoda. Only a limited number of species exist today.

Trilobites

Trilobites, extinct arthropods that once dominated ancient seas, have left their fossilized remains in numerous mountainous regions across the globe. These fossils provide valuable insights into Earth's prehistoric marine ecosystems and have become prized specimens for both scientists and collectors. In North Africa, the Atlas Mountains of Morocco are particularly renowned for their rich trilobite deposits. 

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Trilob10
The Anti-Atlas region in southern Morocco, especially around the town of Alnif, has yielded exceptionally well-preserved specimens, making it a hotspot for trilobite enthusiasts and researchers alike.

Moving to North America, trilobite fossils are abundant in various mountain ranges. The Appalachian Mountains, stretching from Newfoundland in Canada to Alabama in the United States, harbor numerous trilobite-bearing rock formations. Notable locations include the Catskill Mountains in New York and the Valley and Ridge province in Pennsylvania. Further west, the Rocky Mountains also contain significant trilobite deposits, with notable sites in Utah, Idaho, and Alberta, Canada. In Europe, trilobite fossils are found in several mountainous areas. The Czech Republic's Barrandian Basin, located in the central Bohemian region, is famous for its diverse and well-preserved trilobite fauna. The Cantabrian Mountains in northern Spain and the Montagne Noire in southern France also yield important trilobite specimens.

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Localities

Asia is not without its share of trilobite-rich mountain ranges. The Zagros Mountains, extending from Iran to Iraq, contain formations with trilobite fossils. In China, the mountains of Guizhou and Yunnan provinces have produced numerous trilobite specimens, contributing significantly to our understanding of these ancient arthropods. In Australia, the Flinders Ranges in South Australia are known for their Cambrian-aged trilobite fossils, providing crucial data on trilobites. The mountainous regions of Tasmania have also yielded important trilobite specimens. These mountain ranges, scattered across different continents, offer a global perspective on trilobite distribution. The presence of these marine fossils in today's mountainous areas is a testament to the dramatic geological changes our planet has undergone, with ancient seabeds now forming parts of elevated landscapes. 

Nummulites

Nummulites, single-celled organisms belonging to the foraminifera group, offer compelling evidence of dramatic geological changes in Earth's history. These microscopic creatures, which once thrived in shallow, warm marine environments, are now found fossilized high in mountain ranges across Europe and beyond, including the Pyrenees and the Alps. The presence of these marine fossils at such elevated locations tells a remarkable story of geological upheaval and transformation. In the Pyrenees, which stretch along the border between France and Spain, nummulite fossils can be found at altitudes exceeding 3,000 meters (9,800 feet) above current sea level. These fossils are particularly abundant in the limestone formations of the central and eastern Pyrenees. In the Alps, another of Europe's major mountain ranges, nummulite fossils are discovered at even higher elevations. They have been documented in rock strata at altitudes of up to 4,000 meters (13,100 feet) above sea level. The Helvetic nappes of the Swiss Alps, for instance, contain rich deposits of these fossils, providing a window into the region's marine past.

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Sem_ad11

The discovery of nummulites at such high elevations in these mountain ranges is particularly significant because these organisms were adapted to live in shallow, warm seas. Their presence high in the mountains indicates that these areas were once at or near sea level and experienced a warm, tropical climate - a stark contrast to the cold, alpine environments we see today. These nummulite-bearing rocks are often part of extensive limestone formations, suggesting that vast areas of what are now mountaintops were once covered by shallow seas teeming with life. The subsequent uplift of these marine sediments to form towering mountain ranges speaks to the immense geological forces that have shaped our planet. The distribution of nummulite fossils is not limited to the Pyrenees and Alps. They are also found in other mountain ranges formed during the same period of Earth's history, including the Carpathians, the Caucasus, and even parts of the Himalayas. This widespread occurrence across different continents provides further evidence of the global nature of the geological events that transformed ancient seabeds into some of the world's highest mountain ranges. The study of these nummulite fossils, their distribution, and the rock formations in which they are found has been crucial in reconstructing the geological history of these regions. They serve as silent witnesses to a time when the geography of the Earth was dramatically different, with shallow seas covering areas that are now high above sea level. The presence of these marine fossils high in the mountains also raises intriguing questions about the mechanisms of mountain formation and the immense forces capable of lifting former seabeds to such great heights. It underscores the dynamic nature of our planet and the profound changes it has undergone throughout its history.

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Nummul11
Nummulites are remarkable fossils that provide a window into Earth's ancient marine environments. These large, disc-shaped fossils are the preserved remains of single-celled marine organisms that once thrived in warm, shallow seas. Their name, derived from the Latin word for "coin," aptly describes their appearance. The structure of nummulites is truly fascinating. They are characterized by their numerous coils, which are subdivided into chambers by internal walls called septa. This internal architecture is a testament to the complexity that can exist even in single-celled organisms. The size of nummulites is impressive for a single-celled creature, commonly ranging from 1.3 cm (0.5 inches) to 5 cm (2 inches) in diameter, with some exceptional specimens reaching up to 15 cm (6 inches) wide.

Nummulites are abundantly found in rock formations that were once part of the ancient Tethys Ocean, a vast sea that existed between the continents of Gondwana and Laurasia. Today, these fossils are commonly discovered in regions that were once covered by this ancient ocean, including southwest Asia and the Mediterranean area. In Egypt, nummulite fossils are particularly prevalent in limestone formations. These Egyptian limestones, rich in nummulites, have been used as building materials for millennia, including in the construction of some of the pyramids. Similarly, in Pakistan, nummulite-bearing rocks provide important geological evidence of the region's marine past. Perhaps most intriguingly, nummulite fossils are found in what are now mountainous regions, far above current sea levels. In Turkey, for instance, Middle Eocene rocks contain nummulite fossils up to six inches wide, now located high in the mountains. This discovery highlights the dramatic geological changes that have occurred, with former seabeds now lifted to great heights. The presence of these fossils in such diverse locations and elevations offers compelling evidence of the dynamic nature of Earth's geology. It demonstrates how areas now far above sea level were once warm, shallow marine environments teeming with life. The study of nummulites and their distribution has been crucial in reconstructing ancient geographies and understanding the processes that have shaped our planet's surface over time.

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Makrof10
Fossil nummulites in Urbasa, western Navarre, Spain, part of the Basque Mountains

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Eocene10
As the sun cast its rays across the expansive Tethys Sea, billions of microscopic organisms known as Nummulites thrived in its shallow waters. These single-celled creatures, with their coin-shaped shells, would leave an indelible mark on the geological record, one that continues to fascinate scientists and challenge our understanding of Earth's history. The story of Nummulites begins in the early Paleocene, roughly 66 million years ago, according to conventional dating methods. These early forms were relatively small and simple, but they heralded the dawn of a remarkable group of organisms that would soon dominate the shallow marine environments of the Tethys. Link 

Evolutionary Timeline of Nummulites

Paleocene (66 - 56 million years ago): Nummulites first appear in the fossil record. Early forms are relatively small and simple compared to later species.
Early Eocene (56 - 47.8 million years ago): Nummulites begin to diversify and increase in abundance, becoming more prominent in marine ecosystems.
Middle to Late Eocene (47.8 - 33.9 million years ago): This period marks the peak of nummulite diversity and size. Giant species emerge, with some reaching up to 15 cm in diameter.
Oligocene (33.9 - 23 million years ago): Nummulites experience a decline in diversity and abundance, possibly due to global cooling trends.
Miocene to Present (23 million years ago - Present): Most nummulite species go extinct, but a few lineages survive. Modern nummulites are smaller and less diverse than their Eocene ancestors.

Challenges and Gaps in the Evolutionary Timeline of Nummulites: An Alternative Perspective

The proposed evolutionary timeline of nummulites presents several significant challenges and gaps that call into question the conventional narrative. The sudden appearance of nummulites in the Paleocene fossil record, without clear ancestral forms, raises doubts about their gradual evolution. The rapid diversification and size increase during the Eocene lack satisfactory explanations within the gradualist model of evolution. The fossil record shows abrupt changes in nummulite morphology and size without the expected transitional forms. The peak of nummulite diversity and size in the Middle to Late Eocene, followed by a sharp decline, is difficult to reconcile with the idea of gradual evolutionary processes. The survival of certain nummulite lineages through major climatic changes while others went extinct lacks a comprehensive explanation. The presence of nummulite fossils in mountain ranges far above current sea levels suggests catastrophic geological events rather than slow, uniform processes. The abrupt extinction of most nummulite species and the survival of only a few lineages challenge the concept of gradual evolutionary adaptation. The lack of clear transitional forms between extinct and modern nummulite species further compounds these issues. Given these significant gaps and abrupt changes in the fossil record, an alternative explanation involving rapid burial during a global catastrophic event, followed by major geological upheavals, better accounts for the observed evidence. This perspective provides a more coherent explanation for the sudden appearance, rapid diversification, and subsequent decline of nummulites, as well as their presence in elevated locations worldwide.

Fossilized Coral Reefs: Remnants of Ancient Marine Ecosystems

Coral reef fossils found at great heights in mountain ranges worldwide provide a remarkable testimony to the dramatic geological transformations our planet has undergone over vast periods. These ancient marine ecosystems, now preserved in rock, offer a window into environments vastly different from the mountainous landscapes we see today. One striking example is found in the Dolomites of northern Italy, towering up to 3,343 meters (10,968 feet) above sea level. Within these sedimentary rock formations lie the fossilized remains of vibrant coral reefs that thrived in warm, shallow seas supposedly during the Triassic period, over 200 million years ago. The shapes and patterns of the fossilized corals bear witness to the diversity of life that flourished in these ancient marine environments. Crossing the Atlantic, similar evidence is found in the Andes Mountains of South America. In regions like Peru and Bolivia, at elevations exceeding 4,000 meters (13,000 feet), fossilized coral reefs dating back to the Jurassic and Cretaceous periods are embedded within the rock layers, contrasting starkly with the rugged, arid landscapes that surround them today.

In the Himalayas, regions of Nepal and Tibet, at elevations surpassing 5,000 meters (16,400 feet), fossils of corals, ammonites, and other marine organisms abound, providing compelling evidence that these towering peaks were once submerged beneath ancient oceans. In the Rocky Mountains of North America also bear the imprint of ancient coral reefs. In areas like the Canadian Rockies and the Bighorn Basin of Wyoming, fossil beds containing well-preserved coral structures offer a glimpse into the vibrant marine ecosystems that once occupied these regions. The presence of these coral reef fossils at such extreme elevations raises questions about the mechanisms that could have uplifted and exposed these former seabeds. Geologists point to the immense forces of plate tectonics, continental drift, and mountain-building processes as the driving factors behind these dramatic transformations. These ancient coral reefs not only provide insights into Earth's past environments but also serve as powerful reminders of the dynamic nature of our planet, where oceans give way to mountains, and landscapes are reshaped by the relentless forces of geology.

Shark teeth

Shark teeth fossils have been discovered in various mountain ranges across the world, providing compelling evidence of the dramatic geological changes our planet has undergone over millions of years. Here are some notable examples and extended information:

Andes Mountains: The Andes, stretching along the western coast of South America, have yielded numerous shark tooth fossils at high altitudes. In Peru, shark teeth fossils have been found at elevations exceeding 4,000 meters (13,000 feet), embedded in sedimentary rock formations. These fossils date back to the Cretaceous period, around 100 million years ago, when much of the region was submerged under ancient oceans.
Rocky Mountains: The Rocky Mountains, spanning across western North America, have also provided evidence of ancient marine environments through the presence of shark tooth fossils. In areas like the Bighorn Basin of Wyoming and the Canadian Rockies, numerous shark tooth fossils have been discovered, some dating back to the Paleocene epoch, around 60 million years ago. These fossils are often found in sedimentary rock layers that were once part of the Western Interior Seaway, a vast inland sea that covered much of central North America during the Cretaceous and Paleogene periods.
Moroccan Atlas Mountains: The Atlas Mountains in Morocco are renowned for their rich fossil beds, including an abundance of shark teeth fossils. These fossils are found in sedimentary rock formations that were once part of the Tethys Ocean, an ancient sea that existed between the continents of Gondwana and Laurasia during the Mesozoic era. The shark teeth fossils found in the Atlas Mountains range from the Triassic to the Cretaceous periods, spanning millions of years of Earth's history.
Swiss Alps: Even the towering Swiss Alps have yielded shark tooth fossils, providing evidence of their marine origins. These fossils, found in limestone and shale formations, date back to the Late Cretaceous period, around 70 million years ago, when much of the region was covered by shallow seas.

The presence of shark tooth fossils at such high elevations in these mountain ranges is a testament to the immense forces of plate tectonics and the uplift of ancient seafloors over millions of years. These fossils not only offer insights into the diverse marine life that once inhabited these regions but also serve as powerful reminders of the constant geological transformations that have shaped our planet's landscapes.

Fossilized Shark Tooth Discoveries in the Himalayas

In 2023, a remarkable discovery, a Chinese research team uncovered a fossil of a shark tooth from the supposed Late Triassic period, dating back an 220 million years. This remarkable find was made during a recent scientific expedition on the majestic Mount Cho Oyu, part of the renowned Himalayan mountain range, standing as the world's sixth-highest peak at an elevation of 8,201 meters (26,906 feet). The scientific team ventured into the heart of the Himalayas to unravel the secrets of Earth's ancient past. Deng Tao expressed the profound significance of this discovery, stating, "This fossilized shark tooth will provide invaluable insights into the prehistoric marine ecosystems  in this region." But the expedition's findings did not end there. The team also uncovered a heteromorphic ammonite fossil.  Ammonites, once widely distributed in the oceans around the world, are renowned among geologists as index fossils for dating rock formations. While they became entirely extinct, their fossils continue to provide invaluable insights into Earth's ancient history. Jurassic ammonite fossils, for instance, are commonly found in the Mount Himalaya region.

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   7467a610

The expedition's discoveries extended beyond the realm of marine life, as fossils of plants, including berberis, and cotoneaster were found in strata at an altitude exceeding 4,800 meters (15,748 feet) on Mount Cho Oyu. These findings suggest the existence of a coniferous forest community in that era, signifying that during the uplift of the Qinghai-Xizang Plateau, the Himalayas had already reached an elevation of over 3,000 meters (9,842 feet).
Yang Yongping, a researcher from the Xishuangbanna Tropical Botanical Garden, remarked, "Some of the fossilized leaves resemble cotoneaster and spruce leaves. In the coming days, we will conduct more in-depth research on the age of the strata and the fossil specimens." The scientific base camp for this expedition was established at an altitude of 4,950 meters (16,240 feet) on Mount Cho Oyu, serving as a gateway to unraveling the geological, climatic, environmental, and biological evolution of the Qinghai-Xizang Plateau. Deng expressed the potential of these discoveries to illuminate the history of environmental change and life evolution on the plateau, as well as provide insights into the life forms that inhabited the ancient Paleo-Tethys Ocean. The Qinghai-Xizang Plateau stands as a vital hub for biodiversity, and paleontological fossils not only serve as crucial evidence for the evolution of life but also as valuable resources for understanding geological periods, environmental shifts, and climate changes. Link 

Belemnites: Fossilized Enigmas from the Ancient Seas

Belemnites were an extinct order of marine cephalopod mollusks that existed during the Mesozoic Era, from the Late Triassic period to the Late Cretaceous period, approximately 235 to 66 million years ago. These creatures possessed an internal, bullet-shaped shell known as a rostrum or guard, which is the part most commonly found as fossils. Belemnites are believed to have been active predators in the ancient oceans, using their tentacles to capture prey such as small fish and other marine organisms. Their streamlined shape and internal shell likely aided in buoyancy control and agility, making them efficient swimmers and hunters.

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Belemn10


Global Distribution of Belemnite Fossils

Belemnite fossils have been found in various geological formations around the world, indicating their widespread distribution in the prehistoric oceans. Some notable locations where these fossils have been discovered include:

- The Alps and Himalayas: Belemnite fossils are abundant in the sedimentary rocks of these mountain ranges, suggesting their presence in the ancient Tethys Ocean.
- Western Europe: Regions like the United Kingdom, Germany, and France have yielded numerous belemnite fossils, particularly in Jurassic and Cretaceous sedimentary rocks.
- North America: Belemnite fossils have been found in various locations across the United States and Canada, including the Western Interior Seaway.
- Russia and Central Asia: Belemnite fossils are prevalent in the sedimentary deposits of these regions, indicating their presence in the ancient Paleo-Tethys Ocean.

Evolutionary Timeline

According to the prevailing evolutionary model, belemnites are believed to have evolved from an earlier group of cephalopods known as aulacocerids during the Late Triassic period, approximately 235 million years ago. They then diversified and became widespread throughout the Jurassic and Cretaceous periods, occupying various marine environments. During the Early Jurassic, around 200 million years ago, belemnites underwent a significant evolutionary radiation, giving rise to numerous species and genera. They are believed to have reached their peak diversity and abundance during the Middle Jurassic, approximately 170 million years ago. The Late Cretaceous period, around 66 million years ago, witnessed the eventual extinction of belemnites, along with many other marine and terrestrial organisms, including the non-avian dinosaurs. This mass extinction event is commonly attributed to the impact of a large asteroid or comet, leading to global environmental changes that proved catastrophic for numerous species. Despite their extinction, belemnites are considered an important group in the evolutionary history of cephalopods, as they are believed to be closely related to modern squid and their ancestors.

Bivalves

The fossilized remains of bivalve mollusks like clams and oysters are commonly found in mountain ranges and other uplifted geological formations around the world.  Bivalves are abundant in the fossil record because their two-part hinged shells are preserved well. Their fossilized shells are found embedded in sedimentary rocks like limestone, shale, and sandstone that originated as seafloor sediments. Mountainous regions like the Rocky Mountains, Andes, Himalayas, and European Alps contain extensive sedimentary rock formations with marine fossils from when they were submerged. The presence of these fossils high up provides evidence that major uplifting, folding, and faulting of the Earth's crust occurred over vast geological timescales. Bivalve fossil beds at extreme elevations demonstrate the immense forces at work shaping the planet's surface through plate tectonics.

Crinoids

Crinoids, also known as sea lilies or feather stars, are marine invertebrate animals that belong to the phylum Echinodermata, which also includes starfish, sea urchins, and sea cucumbers. They are characterized by a chalice-like body and feathery arms that are used for feeding and respiration. Crinoids are found abundantly as fossils in limestone deposits in mountainous regions, and their presence can provide valuable insights into the geological history of these areas. Crinoids have a well-developed skeleton made of calcite plates, which makes them highly susceptible to fossilization. Their fossil remains, particularly the stem segments and calyx (body), are commonly found in limestone and shale formations. The presence of crinoid fossils in limestone deposits indicates that these areas were once part of shallow marine environments, such as warm, clear seas or oceans. Crinoids thrived in these conditions, anchoring themselves to the seafloor with their stems. Over geological time, tectonic processes like plate movements, folding, and faulting caused the uplifting of these ancient seafloors, resulting in the formation of mountain ranges. The limestone deposits containing crinoid fossils were consequently lifted to higher elevations. By studying the types of crinoid fossils, their associated fossil assemblages (e.g., corals, brachiopods, trilobites), and the sedimentary structures in the limestone, paleontologists can reconstruct the paleoenvironmental conditions that existed during the time these organisms lived. Crinoid fossils can be used as biostratigraphic markers, helping geologists correlate and date rock formations across different regions. Different species of crinoids lived during specific geological periods, and their presence can provide insights into the age of the rock layers. The distribution patterns of crinoid fossils in limestone deposits can shed light on the ancient geography, ocean currents, and connectivity of marine environments during different geological periods. Crinoid fossils found in limestone deposits in mountains serve as valuable windows into the Earth's ancient marine ecosystems and provide crucial information for reconstructing the geological and environmental history of these regions.

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Crinoi10
When we find these fossils it tells us that these rocks were laid down in marine conditions, i.e. under the sea. The reason they're now up a mountain is due to plate tectonic processes like mountain building. When the continents collide together it results in large-scale tectonic forces that uplift the land, pushing rocks upwards to create mountains Image Link

Plesiosaur and Ichthyosaur remains

The discovery of plesiosaur and ichthyosaur fossils in mountain ranges like the Alps is remarkable and provides valuable insights into the geological and paleontological history of these regions. These large marine reptiles lived during the Mesozoic Era, which spanned supposedly from approximately 252 to 66 million years ago, and their fossilized remains in mountainous areas are a testament to the significant geological processes that have shaped the Earth's surface over time. Plesiosaurs were long-necked marine reptiles that propelled themselves through the water using four large flipper-like limbs. Ichthyosaurs, on the other hand, were dolphin-like reptiles adapted for a fully aquatic lifestyle, with a streamlined body and powerful tail fin for swimming. Both groups were apex predators in the ancient oceans and seas.

During the Mesozoic Era, much of the area that is now occupied by the Alps and other mountain ranges was covered by shallow seas or oceans, providing suitable habitats for plesiosaurs and ichthyosaurs to thrive. The fossilized remains of these marine reptiles are typically found embedded in sedimentary rock layers, such as limestone, shale, and sandstone, which were formed from the accumulation of sediments on the ancient seafloor.  The fossilization process requires specific conditions for the remains to be preserved, such as rapid burial in sediments and lack of significant disturbance. The presence of plesiosaur and ichthyosaur fossils in mountain ranges suggests that the environmental conditions at the time were favorable for their preservation. The study of these marine reptile fossils, along with other associated fossils and sedimentary structures, provides valuable information for reconstructing the paleoenvironments, paleoecology, and paleoclimate of the region. The discovery of plesiosaur and ichthyosaur remains in mountain ranges like the Alps serves as a remarkable reminder of the dynamic nature of the Earth's surface and the profound changes that have occurred over vast geological timescales. Th These fossils provide evidence that areas now far above sea level were once underwater. Their presence in mountains is primarily explained by the process of uplift, where tectonic forces push ancient seabeds upwards to form mountain ranges.

Marine Reptile Fossil Discovered in Alaska's Talkeetna Mountains

In a discovery announced in 2015, researchers from the University of Alaska Museum of the North confirmed the presence of a marine reptile fossil in the Talkeetna Mountains of Alaska. This find represented the first elasmosaur fossil ever identified in the state. The fossil was initially spotted by Anchorage-based collector Curvin Metzler, who had found vertebrae eroding from a cliff face over several years. In June 2015, Metzler joined forces with Dr. Patrick Druckenmiller, the museum's earth science curator and marine fossil expert, along with two other researchers to investigate the site further. Elasmosaurs were a type of plesiosaur, were large marine reptiles that supposedly lived 70 million years ago during the Late Cretaceous period. Dr. Druckenmiller described them as having extremely long necks and paddle-like limbs, comparing their appearance to the mythical Loch Ness monster. While these creatures coexisted with dinosaurs, they were not classified as such due to their aquatic lifestyle.

The team successfully excavated a significant portion of the skeleton from halfway up a 60-foot cliff. Based on the size of the recovered bones, Dr. Druckenmiller estimated that the creature was at least 25 feet long. However, he noted that there was still more of the fossil to be uncovered at the site. This discovery added to Alaska's growing list of ancient marine reptile fossils, which included an ichthyosaur found in the Brooks Range and southeast Alaska, and a thalattosaur discovered near Kake. The elasmosaur fossil represented a significant addition to the understanding of prehistoric marine life in the region and offered exciting new research opportunities for paleontologists.
The University of Alaska Museum of the North, which already housed a nearly complete elasmosaur skeleton from Montana on display, was expected to be the new home for this important Alaskan discovery once excavation and research were completed. Link 

Myth or History? Investigating the Genesis Flood Account   Ichthy10
Ichthyosaurus, a name derived from the Greek words "ichthys" meaning fish and "sauros" meaning lizard, is a genus of ichthyosaurs. Fossils of Ichthyosaurus have been discovered across various European locations, including Belgium, England, Germany, Switzerland, and Portugal. Some ichthyosaur fossils have been found in the Swiss Alps, though these were likely deposited when the area was covered by an ancient sea before the formation of the mountains. This genus holds a significant place in paleontology as it is the type genus for the entire order Ichthyosauria. As such, Ichthyosaurus is one of the most well-known and extensively studied ichthyosaur genera. Its discovery and subsequent research have greatly contributed to our understanding of these ancient marine reptiles that inhabited Earth's oceans during the age of dinosaurs. Link

In 1950, a remarkable discovery was made about 200 miles south of Barrow in the foothills of the Brooks Range mountains in Alaska. Researchers unearthed a 16-foot long ichthyosaur fossil, estimated to be approximately 210 million years old. This particular specimen, when alive, may have reached a length of around 25 feet, though it's worth noting that some ichthyosaur species found elsewhere in the world grew to be up to three times this size.
The fossil's remote location on the North Slope presented significant challenges for removal and transportation. As a result, it remained in situ for over five decades. It wasn't until 2002 that a team finally managed to extract the fossil from its resting place. Today, this ancient marine reptile resides at the University of Alaska Museum of the North in Fairbanks, where it continues to be studied and admired. Ichthyosaurs, whose name means "fish lizards," were remarkable creatures that inhabited Earth's oceans during the age of dinosaurs. One of their most striking features was their eyes - they possessed the largest eyeballs of any known animal in Earth's history. These extraordinary organs could measure up to 11 inches in diameter, providing these marine reptiles with exceptional vision, likely an advantage for hunting in the dim light of deep ocean waters. This Alaskan ichthyosaur fossil represents a significant find, offering valuable insights into the prehistoric marine ecosystems of the region and contributing to our understanding of these fascinating creatures that swam the world's oceans millions of years ago. Link 

References

Alps

Lammerer, B., & Weger, M. (2011). Field Trip Guide: From the Northern Calcareous Alps to the Southern Alps. Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München. Link. (This field trip guide provides detailed information on the geology, stratigraphy, and tectonic history of the Dolomites and Southern Alps, including the Permian volcanic event, the Permian-Triassic boundary, and the Werfen Formation.)

Kustatscher, E., & Van Konijnenburg-Van Cittert, J.H.A. (2005). Upper Triassic flora from Raibl beds of Julian Alps (Italy) and Karavanke Mts. (Slovenia). Rivista Italiana di Paleontologia e Stratigrafia, 111(3), 513-523. Link. (This paper discusses the plant fossils found in the Raibl Beds of the Julian Alps in Italy and the Karavanke Mountains in Slovenia, while also mentioning the presence of ammonite fossils in these beds.)

Gianolla, P., Morelli, C., & Cucato, M. (2008). Geology of the Dolomites. Episodes, 31(1), 6-17. Link. (This paper provides an overview of the geological history and formations in the Dolomites region, including the Raibl Beds and their rich fossil record, particularly the well-preserved ammonite fossils.)

Krainer, K., & Lutz, D. (2014). Middle Triassic fish remains from the Raibl Beds of the Karawanken Mountains (Carinthia, Austria). Mitteilungen der Geologischen Gesellschaft in Wien, 104, 97-106. Link. (This paper describes various vertebrate fossils, including fish teeth and scales, found in the Raibl Beds of the Dolomites region, although it does not specifically focus on ammonite fossils.)

The Spiti Valley in the Indian Himalayas 

Krishnan, M.S. (1968). Geology of India and Burma. Higginbothams. Link (This book provides a comprehensive overview of the geology of the Indian subcontinent, including a detailed description of the Spiti Shales and their ammonite fossils.)

Uhlig, V. (1903). The fauna of the Spiti Shales. Memoirs of the Geological Survey of India, Palaeontologia Indica, 15th Series, 4(2), 1-132. Link (This seminal work by Victor Uhlig, a German paleontologist, describes and illustrates the diverse ammonite fauna found in the Spiti Shales, establishing the region's significance in paleontological studies.)

Jain, S. (2017). Fundamentals of Invertebrate Palaeontology: Macrofossils. Springer. Link (This textbook on invertebrate paleontology includes a chapter on ammonites, with specific references to the exceptional ammonite fossils found in the Spiti Shales and their importance in biostratigraphy and paleoenvironmental reconstructions.)

Ammonite fossils from the Los Molles Formation in the Neuquén Basin, Argentina

Parent, H., Garrido, A.C., Brambilla, L., & Alberti, M. (2020). Upper Bathonian ammonites from Chacay Melehué (Neuquén Basin, Argentina) and the chronostratigraphy of the Steinmanni Zone. Boletín del Instituto de Fisiografía y Geología, 90, 1-37. Link

Parent, H., Gómez-Peral, L.E., Poiré, D.G., Sandoval, M.I., & Ruiz-Ortiz, P.A. (2021). A microbialitic bioherm related to possible methane seepage (Los Molles Formation, Neuquén, Argentina). Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology, 562, 110114. Link. (This paper describes an ammonite assemblage found in association with a microbialitic bioherm in the Los Molles Formation, potentially related to ancient methane seepage.)

Amber preservation references

Beck, C.W., Wilbur, E., & Meret, S. (1964). Infrared spectra and the origin of amber. Nature, 201(4919), 256-257. Link. (This paper uses infrared spectroscopy to study the chemical composition of amber and its changes over time, providing evidence of oxidative degradation.)

Lambert, J.B., Poinar, G.O., & Frye, J.S. (2008). Amber from the Dominican Republic: Analysis by nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy. Archaeometry, 50(3), 456-462. Link. (This study analyzes the structural changes in Dominican amber using NMR spectroscopy, showing significant reductions in polymer chain lengths with age.)

Anderson, K.B., & Winans, R.E. (1991). Nature and fate of natural resins in the geosphere. II. Identification, classification, and nomenclature of resinites. Organic Geochemistry, 17(6), 809-822. Link. (This paper provides mass spectrometric evidence of the fragmentation and cross-linking of amber over time, reflecting its chemical evolution.)

Poinar, G.O. (1992). Life in amber. Stanford University Press. Link. (This book discusses the impact of ionizing radiation on amber, including the formation of free radicals and subsequent molecular damage.)

Grimaldi, D., & Engel, M.S. (2005). Evolution of the insects. Cambridge University Press. Link. (This book includes a section on the hydrolytic degradation of amber, highlighting moisture-induced chemical changes detectable through chromatography.)

Henwood, A. (1992). Soft-part preservation of beetles in Tertiary amber from the Dominican Republic. Palaeontology, 35(4), 901-912. Link. (This paper identifies microorganisms associated with amber degradation, providing empirical evidence of microbial activity contributing to its breakdown.)

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin

Armitage, M.H., & Anderson, K.L. (2013). Soft sheets of fibrillar bone from a fossil of the supraorbital horn of the dinosaur Triceratops horridus. Acta Histochemica, 115(6). Link. (This study reports the discovery of soft fibrillar bone tissues from a supraorbital horn of Triceratops horridus collected at the Hell Creek Formation in Montana, USA. The findings include sheets of lamellar bone matrix with visible microstructures consistent with osteocytes, suggesting the tissues are indeed from the Triceratops.)

The identification of the fossil as belonging to Triceratops horridus was based on its anatomical features, specifically the supraorbital horn, which is characteristic of this species. The Hell Creek Formation, where the fossil was found, is well-known for yielding Triceratops fossils, further supporting the identification. There is no significant doubt presented in the study regarding the fossil's attribution to Triceratops horridus.

Citations:
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triceratops
[2] https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/dino-directory/triceratops.html
[3] https://www.fossilageminerals.com/collections/triceratops-dinosaur
[4] https://www.livescience.com/24011-triceratops-facts.html
[5] https://www.icr.org/article/triceratops-horn-soft-tissue-foils

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin



Mark Armitage and the soft tissue he found in a dinosaur horn

California State University at Northridge has settled a lawsuit brought by a former employee who said he was fired for sharing news of an archaeological discovery that supported his young-Earth creationist beliefs. The university says it settled for $399,500 to avoid a protracted legal battle, but some scientists say the outcome has implications for how scientists critique creationist colleagues going forward. The plaintiff, Mark Armitage, managed the Northridge biology department’s electron and confocal microscopy suite starting in 2010. In 2012, during a digging trip to Montana’s well-known Hell Creek Formation, he found a massive triceratops horn. Beyond its unusually large size, Armitage found something even more significant inside: soft tissue. While dinosaur soft tissue finds are not unprecedented, they are extremely rare because the tissue simply doesn’t preserve like the hard mineral parts -- think bones and teeth -- that make up most fossils. Other scientists have offered explanations for the preservation of soft tissue that fit within the scientific consensus on when the dinosaurs lived, tens of millions of years ago, namely the presence of iron. Yet for Armitage his discovery offered proof of his young-Earth creationist view. Because the tissue “looked alive” under a microscope and because no soft tissue had ever been found in a triceratops horn up until that point, he believed the find to be just 4,000 years old, according to the suit. While paleontologists find the timeline off in just about every way, that's the kind of analysis that appeals to those who take the Bible as a literal guide to world history. Armitage published his findings in 2013 in Acta Histochemica, a peer-reviewed journal, leaving out his interpretation of the tissue’s age. But he engaged students he was training in a Socratic dialogue about the possible age of the horn -- one of whom enthusiastically shared the conversation with a faculty member in the biology department, according to the suit. The professor allegedly entered Armitage's office and said, “We are not going to tolerate your religion in this department.” Armitage said he complained verbally of religious discrimination to two administrators, who told him to forget about it and never investigated. Two weeks after his article was published, and after Armitage allegedly was excluded from a secret meeting of a microscopy committee on which he served, Northridge fired Armitage. In the interim, a colleague told him he was the subject of a “witch hunt,” and suggested that he resign, according to the complaint. The university argued that it acted due to budgetary adjustments and a declining need for Armitage’s services; he was a part-time, temporary employee, it said. But Armitage charged religious discrimination and wrongful termination in his 2014 lawsuit. His view is that faculty scientists didn’t want to be associated with a published creationist. Armitage had written previously in support of creationism, including in a 2008 book called Jesus Is Like My Scanning Electron Microscope: (A Scientist Looks at His Relationship With the Creator), of which he said Northridge was aware when it hired him. Yet he alleged that his immediate colleagues and students were largely unaware of his beliefs though 2012, and praised him highly for his job performance -- even asking him to teach a full graduate course in microscopic imaging. Cal State Northridge said in an emailed statement that it is “firmly committed to upholding academic freedom, free speech and a respect for all religious beliefs.” The statement noted that the court did not rule on the merits of Armitage’s complaint, and that the settlement was voluntary and “not an indication of any wrongdoing.” The decision to not renew Armitage’s contract was based on “budgetary considerations and a dwindling need for his services,” the university said. Settling was about avoiding the costs associated with a "protracted legal battle, including manpower, time and state dollars.” A university spokesperson said a big chunk of the nearly $400,000 settlement would cover Armitage's legal fees. His attorney, Alan J. Reinach, executive director of the Church State Council, said the sum amounted to about 15 times his client’s annual part-time salary at Northridge. In other words, he said, “It’s significant.” A YouTube video Armitage made about his settlement says he’s been “vindicated by the [Los Angeles courts].” His research “stands head and shoulders above all the other work that’s been found so far on soft tissue and dinosaur bones,” it says, “and that’s why [Northridge] had to throw him away. His work is a lit powder keg.” The video notes that earlier in the case, a judge rejected the university’s request for summary judgment. It quotes Armitage as saying, “Well-meaning Christians who find themselves as an enemy of the state over their beliefs need to stand up and fight.” Saying he cannot defeat “the Goliath” himself, he directs viewers to a fund-raising site for future research. Reinach said the settlement was notably the first time, to his knowledge, that “a creationist scientist has prevailed in a religious discrimination claim against a public university.” Universities going forward “should be really, really careful, and stick to the science,” he added. “Biology and other science departments should stick to the science and respect people’s religious differences.” Scientists aren’t always hostile to creationist colleagues -- Ball State University granted tenure earlier this year to Eric Hedin, a professor of physics previously accused of proselytizing creationism in a science seminar, for example. And many say they have no problem with teaching about creationist beliefs in religion courses outside of science departments. But some scholars say the Northridge settlement could make policing the line between science and religion more fraught. Not necessarily a bad thing -- just different. Jerry Coyne, a well-known blogger on evolution and a professor of ecology and evolution at the University of Chicago, said the settlement is “problematic for universities that don't have the financial resources for a protracted lawsuit.” At the same time, he said, if Armitage’s colleagues really did engage in religious discrimination, “that's not acceptable, so they may have faced an uphill battle.” In an argument similar to Reinach’s, but from a different perspective, Coyne said college and universities “need to stay away from the religious beliefs of professors and just adjudicate the science alone. Had they done that, Armitage would clearly have lost, as his [claims] aren't credible.” Adam Laats, a professor of education at the State University of New York at Binghamton who studies cultural conflicts in the classroom, said the settlement probably won’t change things for science in the short term. But if Northridge employees had known "about the deep-pocket legal groups that were committed to pursuing Armitage’s case, they would have handled themselves very differently from the get-go,” he added. Academic scientists underestimate the prevalence of creationism in American culture and even among their own ranks -- admitting that there are varying degrees of creationism, Laats said. “Their glib assumption that they don’t need to know about creationism will lead to more cases like this.”



https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Sponsored content



Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum