Defending the Christian Worlview, Creationism, and Intelligent Design
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Defending the Christian Worlview, Creationism, and Intelligent Design

This is my personal virtual library, where i collect information, which leads in my view to the Christian faith, creationism, and Intelligent Design as the best explanation of the origin of the physical Universe, life, and biodiversity


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Defending the Christian Worlview, Creationism, and Intelligent Design » Bible / Christian faith / Apologetics » Were the Pyramids Built Before the Flood? (Masoretic Text vs. Original Hebrew)

Were the Pyramids Built Before the Flood? (Masoretic Text vs. Original Hebrew)

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Otangelo


Admin
Were the Pyramids Built Before the Flood? (Masoretic Text vs. Original Hebrew)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI1yRTC6kGE&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0x-mfkiFyO1Si5z95ekwqq8CuOm8GrLTfzjZpIZ9xkjXtW9JTM3yBgHAY

A response to the video:
Were the Egyptian pyramids built before the Flood
https://creation.com/pyramids-before-flood

Hoffman’s proposed harmonization would still put much Egyptian prehistory before the Flood. The LXX has a longer chronology, which is more accepting of secular Egyptian history, but it does not fix all the problems.
Demetrius the Chronographer (in a quote preserved by Eusebius) places the LXX chronology in the second century BC. Therefore, all three texts have attestation much earlier than the first preserved manuscript.
We refuted the argument that an early 2nd century Jewish leader named Rabbi Akiba originated the MT chronology in order to mess with a chiliastic timing of the Messiah’s arrival.3 Even though several important LXX advocates claim the changes were made for eschatological reasons, Hoffman has a completely different reason why Jews might have created the Masoretic text.
Hoffman claims the Jews changed the genealogy so Melchizedek could be Shem (a son of Noah and an ancestor of the Jewish people).  Many Christian theologians of the past had no problem associating Shem and Melchizedek.

Hoffman thinks the MT was created around 60 AD, in the wake of the writing of the biblical book of Hebrews. But this would require someone to intercept the book of Hebrews very early in its existence, before it became widely known, decide it was a massively important work, and then convince the Jewish establishment that they needed to change the Torah to fix the problem. There is a lack of evidence for this. Given that Christians were able to make theological arguments for Christ from both texts, it follows that neither one was anti-Christian.

As an aside, if people were routinely having children in their 100s just a few generations before Abraham, why was Sarah past her childbearing years by the time she was 60? This is yet another factor that suggests the LXX dates have been tampered with.
Over and over again, the Christians with the best grasp of Hebrew and the most access to the different manuscripts came to the conclusion that it was the Masoretic that was the most reliable. As we said above, it formed the basis of Jerome’s Vulgate, which was the most influential Bible in the Western church for 1,000 years. The MT also formed the basis for all the Reformation and post-Reformation translations of the Old Testament from Hebrew into various world languages.
And like most informed Christians of generations past, we have come to the conclusion that the Masoretic is most probably original when it comes to the Genesis 5 and 11 genealogies.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI1yRTC6kGE&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0x-mfkiFyO1Si5z95ekwqq8CuOm8GrLTfzjZpIZ9xkjXtW9JTM3yBgHAY


If you want to burn Blu-rays and DVD's, then feel free. Just use these resources at this link (download the disc images and artwork to make your own copies): https://drive.google.com/drive/folder...
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This is a video explaining whether or not the Egyptian pyramids were built before the flood of Noah's day. It also deals with issues with the accuracy of the Hebrew Masoretic text verses the Greek Septuagint, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Tower of Babel, the age of the Earth, an extra Cainan in Jesus' genealogy, and the identity of Melchizedek - not in that particular order.
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Conclusion:
The Jews distorted their own Bible in their attempt to disprove Christianity. But it really just made their own religion look stupid. So now it appears that the pyramids were built before the flood, that there wasn't enough time for the Tower of Babel event to have taken place, and that Shem outlived all his sons and grandsons. But thankfully God has preserved His Words in the Greek Septuagint, which was considered the Christian Bible in the days of the early church. And it preserves the original Hebrew...except for when it doesn't (the Greek isn't always perfect either).
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Click here to view on Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/219396064

Click here to view Kent Hovind's response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te1iQ...

Click here to read CMI’s response: https://creation.com/pyramids-before-...

Click here to watch my previous video "How Long Were The Israelites in Egypt?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF0F8...
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Here’s a clip from a BBC television mini-series called “Egypt” (episode 6) where they show an explorer from the early 1800’s, named Champollion, writing in his private diary that he found evidence that Egyptian history pre-dates Noah’s flood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAJcp...
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Atheist Claims:

Here's one video of an atheist, Shane Craig, using the age of the pyramids as proof that the flood of Noah couldn't have happened:
https://youtu.be/VC6W061KF7k

Here's a video of an atheist, Aron Ra, who says that the pyramids pre-date the flood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24WbQ...

Here's a video of an atheist, Matt Dillahunty, saying that ancient civilizations pre-date the flood:
https://youtu.be/N4NtTtBfKbE

Here's an atheist website claiming that the pyramids were built before the flood, and therefore the Bible must be wrong:
http://www.thinkatheist.com/m/blogpos...

Here's an atheist website which claims that there wasn't enough time after the flood for the world to re-populate enough in order to build the Tower of Babel (scroll about halfway down the page to the heading that says "Re-population")
http://atheism.wikia.com/wiki/Noah%27...
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Jewish Claims:

Click here to view the video of Rabbi Asher Meza claiming that Shem is Melchizedek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kksXx...
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Good Articles:

For more information about the identity of Melchizedek and Shem, check out Tiffany Denham's article:
http://truthsnitch.com/2017/06/01/inc...

I also suggest reading an article by Answers in Genesis on the subject of the pyramids (I found this article to be very helpful in the making of this video):
https://answersingenesis.org/archaeol...

Here's another excellent article from Answers In Genesis, dealing with the extra years in the genealogy: https://answersingenesis.org/bible-ti...
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Text Preservation:

The video during the end credits is of Frank Turek. Click here to watch his full presentation about how text preservation really works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB18o...
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***MUST WATCH DOCUMENTARY***

Please check out the excellent documentary "Patterns of Evidence: Exodus"
http://patternsofevidence.com
And their 2nd film "Patterns of Evidence: "The Moses Controversy"
https://patternsofevidence.com/moses/
And their 3rd film "Patterns of Evidence: "The Red Sea Miracle"
https://patternsofevidence.com/announ...




William Lane Craig - Septuagint Vs. Masoretic Genealogies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyDci18Ds9g&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0t6Ws4UIpIs5tlOgJQ0-fV7_yOZmdxZw9fg8QKZC7SZOteMnm6gAcavSg


The Works of Josephus: Complete and Unabridged, New Updated Edition
https://libgen.lc/ads.php?md5=3261F95E309456D1374DDFB7DA781911

Were the Pyramids Built Before the Flood? (Masoretic Text vs. Original Hebrew) Sem_tz51

What I fail to understand here is the whole Melchizedek Shem argument, Even if Shem were Melchizedek (and that can't be proven) how would it in anyway take away from Christ?
God used people in the OT to draw pictures of himself such as in the case of Joseph being betrayed by his brothers, sold for silver, a queen lies about him and tears off his garment, Joseph in prison with two men and one rises to be a cup-bearer while the other condemned, Joseph rises from his prison to become second in command in all of Egypt.
Joseph's life is a snapshot of the Messiah in astounding detail.-and events that would transpire in Christ's life hundreds of years in advance.
If Shem was the Melchizedek of the OT he is a type and God used them regularly.
God used the lives of the Patriarchs and Joseph, Moses,Joshua etc to paint vivid types, so Shem outliving many generations isn't an issue whatsoever. Keeping Shem alive until the patriarchs are alive seems to me quite logical. He is a witness to events on an actual story that would be skewed, accusations of the Hebrews "borrowing" from other cultures the flood story, when in fact it would be the other way around if the MT is correct.



Last edited by Admin on Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin
Douglas Petrovich agrees with the Septuagint.
https://youtu.be/w8BqXrBzgVY

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin
The Jews are correct in my opinion on this because all the Semitic tribes came from Shem, Shem would have been the High Priest.
Melchizedek is a King and met Abraham after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer and those with him.
It seems Melchizedek is a paradox, he blessed Abraham and Abraham gave him a tithe he was a high priest to God and Melchizedek blessed God also for delivering Abraham from his enemies.
Melchizedek seems to be a human who was a high priest, the only person this man could have been would have been Shem.-Unless this was a "heavenly visitation" but we aren't told that, since we have an example of that in Abraham's 3 visitors and they don't align themselves with Melchizedek, nor do they "bless the most high" because these 3 are the most high.
Abraham bowed down and called him Lord Genesis 18
Hebrews 7 creates a paradox from Melchizedek-who was a king and blesses Abraham and also blesses the "Most High"
From the order of priesthood Abraham is the Father of this succession.
Key words of Paul- "first being by interpretation"
Melchizedek is a type -a juxtaposition of the whole and he represents King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Melchizedek being the high priest represents God, but Abraham did not bow down to him, as he did with the 3 visitors. Melchizedek himself blesses the Most High, which shows he isn't the most high.
The Jews are correct in my opinion on this because all the Semitic tribes came from Shem, Shem would have been the High Priest, this was passed to Abraham when Melchizedek blesses him, Shem would have been the one to pass the proverbial torch to Abraham.
Where they get it wrong is the fact that Rachel was Jacob's beloved NOT Leah and Leah was the Mother of Levi.
It is when Rachel bears Joseph and Benjamin that it gets very interesting because these are the children born of Jacob that had his heart-and it is Joseph that becomes the type of Christ in his suffering,(betrayal) death (imprisonment) and resurrection (second in command throughout all Egypt) - and ALL the brothers BOW DOWN TO HIM... Joseph puts a cup in the bag of Benjamin- saying that whomever that cup is found that brother will serve HIM forever...This is a time line of events, its a juxtaposition with future events that will occur and it did occur as Joseph is a type of Christ and the cup is the cup of the new covenant.- which was passed to PAUL, Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin-the church is passed the cup of the new covenant from the type that Joseph was-This is quite amazing and shows that the Bible is a living breathing document that was wholly inspired by some brilliant supernatural mind.
There are two story lines going on in the scriptures at the same time in the OT-one occurring at the time, and another than has future implications just like the juxtaposition of Melchizedek.
The whole idea that because Christ wasn't from the tribe of Levi,thus can't be a high priest has no bearing on it because it was Rachel that was the beloved and it was Joseph the brothers bowed down too, every single one of them!

When you represent someone all that God is doing is a mirror of what is to come. Paul took Melchizedek and gave a deeper understanding of what Melchizedek represented.
Abraham never bowed on the ground and called Melchizedek Lord like he did during his visitation of the 3 visitors, Abraham never called Melchizedek Lord.
Paul is drawing a picture of Melchizedek- since he was the High Priest of God at the time of Abraham, what does God need a tithe for???
Does God need money, food, property, clothes or livestock?
It was SHEM as High Priest, he is the one God chose to carry on and was in the linage of Abraham, The Most High has no need of possessions, money or booty from a war with Chedorlaomer and those with him.
God asks for animal sacrifices. Only humans need a tithe for their needs.

Ignoring the fact that with each succession of bestowing blessing from one generation to the next I still claim that Shem is a type of Melchizedek and it was right to bless Abraham because this is what they did and we see that in Melchizedek to Abraham, Abraham to Issac, Issac to Jacob, Jacob to the sons of Joseph.
The ONLY person that could bestow on to Abraham a blessing was Shem or the Lord and we know it wasn't the Lord because Abraham did not bow to him, he gave him a tithe.
Melchizedek blessed Abraham and the Most high, that makes no sense if he was the Most High.

As stated before its a juxtaposition- Of Christ because he carries the linage that will eventually bring him into the world through generations and God's perfect timing
When Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.- So If Melchizedek is God, didn't Abraham already meet him?
Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, “I will give this land to your offspring. ” So Abram built an altar there to the LORD, who had appeared to him. Genesis 12
Melchizedek is NOT Christ, (He represents the MOST HIGH) and blesses the most High because he was chosen by God to pass the torch to Abraham and did it by blessing Abraham and that could only have been Shem as a representative of the Most High.
When you represent someone all that God is doing is a mirror of what is to come. Paul took that and gave a deeper understanding of what Melchizedek represented and then God used Abraham to show how he planned to sacrifice his own Son by calling Abraham to do the same.
Then Issac was offered, as a juxtaposition- of the future of Christ suffering.

Then Jacob has a bride he was not seeking but got anyway- Just as the gentile church received Christ, and then Jacob had to work an extra 7 years to pay for his beloved Rachel who represent Israel who Jesus has to work longer for..(because they rejected him due to blindness)
God is revealing himself in Abraham,Issac and Jacob and it seems right that Melchizedek blesses Abraham, then the blessing moves to Issac and then to Jacob and then during the Jubilee (50 years after this whole revealing of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit- Through Abraham Issac and Jacob, Shem then dies. Seriously?
Seems awful fantastic to me. The Jews wouldn't even see this. I don't believe it, because they don't believe in the trinity, so they wouldn't have even known to put the death of Shem in the very area that makes sense with God using the Patriarchs to reveal key things about himself and his plan. What are the odds of that, that the very person that is a representation of the Holy Spirit who turns 50 (Jacob) at the end a timeline, would cause Shem to die when 50 represents Pentecost. That is just too much to be a "perfect guesstimate"
Shem would need to die at this point in the timeline, because he is not Jesus, he is Shem and from Shem this picture God paints moves on to Joseph- the proverbial torch is passed to him as the next in line of priest as its God giving more vivid details to this ongoing story.

It makes perfect sense when you see the overlay of a story that God has painted.
Then God moves on to give deeper details of betrayal, being sold for silver and a queen ripping off a garment, thrown into the depth of the earth to one rising up to become second in command in all Egypt -
And the brothers finally bowing to their brother during a 7 year famine in the land- which happened in Josephs time...but has not occurred in this juxtaposition story God has painted that is yet future...
When Israel recognizes their Messiah and looks on him who was pierced..Zech12- that will fulfill it.
Even the thief that was saved on the cross is remembered by Jesus in ages past when Joseph is in the prison and the cup-bearer rises from the pit.- to be in paradise..
When you try to wrap your mind around what this story paints. its some supernatural overlay to some future fulfillment you tend to put your trust in it, because it never fails to disappoint and shock you..What you see as an insignificance detail just comes to life. It takes on a life that's mindbogglingly accurate.

Oddly enough Rachel dies giving birth to Benjamin, on the way to...
Bethlehem...
Well of course she would die, because Rachel represents Israel
and Benjamin represents the church.- he has the cup from one like the son of man Joseph/Jesus and Rachel is representative of Israel and dies in giving birth to Benjamin.
Rachel/Israel died giving birth to the CHURCH in whom Benjamin represents. - as he got the cup of the New Covenant...put in his bag from Joseph who was a type of Christ ages ago and then fulfilled in the NT.
""A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more."
That takes on a whole new dimension - as her children were no more killed by Herod, and no more at the birth of the Christ in Bethlehem, where Israel would reject their own Messiah and in turn the cup of the new covenant would be passed to the tribe of Benjamin which is the Apostle Paul.
So tell me these are just fantastic "coincidences " I'm not even remotely going to believe it..The Bible is a spiritual book and what may not make sense can have deeper significance so I don't mess with it.
As far as Eber being old, I don't have all the answers to every dilemma, I have a hard enough time wrapping my head around the stuff I have already been given, and its quite a lot that i haven't shared here.

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin
After the flood could Noah's 3 sons & daughters in-laws reproduce enough people to build the pyramids?


To be honest this issuse presented a problem for your truly earlier on in his biblical apologetic stage and bible scoffers and flood deniers often point to this as an issue.
At first glance, the biblical timeline and the secular ancient Egyptian chronology put the pyramids of giza as being built before the flood (step pyramid est 2600 bce) and the (Great pyramid est 2500 bce) with the biblical chronology for Noah's flood being between 2500 and 2350 B.C..

This present a problem at first glance for the biblical literalist because according to the Genesis book of nations in Genesis chapter 11 kjv and onwards Mizriam (Egypt) is a post flood post Babel civilization, an offspring of Noah's son Ham who migrated to the continent of Africa after Babel.


However it is being reviled by some researchers that the secular ancient Egyptian dynastic/Chronology periods are way way way off with some pharaohs reign running in sequence with other pharaohs reign. So what does this mean? Well I'm glad you asked, this mean that the secular view of the ancient Egyptian chronology ( started by the pagan ancient Egyptian priest Manthos) should shave off over a Millenia from the current ancient Egyptian time line, and when doing so make everything lineup perfectly well with the biblical view of history as seen in the chart provided by yours truly below.



Closing thoughts;
Once the Ancient Egyptian and other ancient nations true chronology is revealed then it is clearly possible to see how 8 people coming off the ark around 2400 (B.C.) all with robust lifespans and a high population growth rate^ could produce 100's and 1000's people two to four centuries later. For instance the children of Israel went into Egypt with less than 150 people around 1800 (B .C.) and came out a mighty host over 400 years later with between a million to 2 million souls according to some biblical est. Plus how many people does it take to get a city started? 100, 200, 500 people? And as far as the pyramids and other ancient structures goes a few thousand intelligent individuals can get them all built in a few decades, esp with the Incredible pre-flood knowledge and tech Noah and family passed to their offspring after the flood.


Albeit those who look at the world through Darwinian glasses have the real issue with human population growth rates, for they believe mankind (modern homospian) have been committing incest and burying their dead and "artifacts" for over 300,000 years, with billions and billions being born and dying, and that's even with a low growth rate^, yet where are their graves? Surely the earth surface should be inundated with ancient graves, where are they? Where are their artifacts, someone pointed out that most things that have been found can be piled on the back of a pickup truck, very telling isn't it. The ancient and current human population growth isnt a Biblical Creationist problem its and Evolutionist and OEC problem.



Reference; P. Steve Anderson population and the bible...(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CbIhnqJ2ys8&feature=youtu.be)
Reference; Dr. Carl Baugh and Heffner crunched the current human population numbers.... https://youtu.be/CuJ_-5JZ4xc


Reference; see the book "The Evolution handbook

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


Admin
P. Steven Anderson crunched the Human population growth numbers and the data fit the Special Creation model much better than the evolutionary story of man's alleged humble beginnings & population growth. Watch the the below short video and leave your thoughts.


https://youtu.be/CbIhnqJ2ys8

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