ElShamah - Reason & Science: Defending ID and the Christian Worldview
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ElShamah - Reason & Science: Defending ID and the Christian Worldview

Otangelo Grasso: This is my library, where I collect information and present arguments developed by myself that lead, in my view, to the Christian faith, creationism, and Intelligent Design as the best explanation for the origin of the physical world.

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Plate tectonics

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1Plate tectonics Empty Plate tectonics Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:02 pm



Thanks to Bryan Bissell : 

DATING EXAMPLE 1: THE PLATE THAT BREAKS THE RADIOMETRIC DATING BACK (Dr. Kurt Wise, Ph.D. from Harvard, shows plate tectonics now supports a young earth and can't work with an old earth)
I often ask atheists/Darwinians a question. How are you going to 
determine if some idea is perfect if you don't have a perfect standard to judge it to begin with. Ask scientists ~40 years ago to judge what was truth in regarding to continental drift/plate tectonics vs. geosynclinical cycles for example. Their textbooks and professors ridiculed continental drift and judged it false. But, now most people on all sides think that that plate tectonics is correct. 

Did they have a perfect standard of judgment then? NO. Do we now? It would be pretty foolish to think so. The only entity with perfect knowledge and a perfect standard is God if He in fact exists as much objective evidence indicates (Believe in God in 5 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQVm8RokoBA). No human establishment, atheistic, theistic, scientific, historical, educational or whatever is or ever has had all knowledge or been flawless. We need to question all establishments and follow the theory that has the best and most evidence regardless of whether it's the majority view or the minority view. Neither of those are good guides to find truth. 
The area of plate tectonics is a very important issue for 3 reasons:
1) It shows how Darwinism sabotages and sets science back by decades, sending it down wrong roads.
2) It shows how Darwinism harm science by presupposing naturalism and that Genesis can't be true using the truth denying and science killing a priori fallacy of methodological naturalism.
3) It shows why no rational person should ever consider the contemporary consensus view of scientists, esp. secular scientists, to be infallible or certain. The consensus is sometimes right, but it's also been disproven time after time after time, 1000s of times.
4) It shows how naturalism harms lives because it claims that pseudoscience is true and basically infallible. This causes people to reject the Bible's claims and sometimes faith in God completely. And as 1000s of studies have documented, this causes enormous damage to many people at all levels of society, individual, family, community and nation and in some cases has been a direct factor in causing enormous injustice (capitalism/communism) and in some cases as Dr. Weikart has documented genocide.
The Biology of the Second Reich: Social Darwinism and the Origins of World War 1 
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n900e80R30, www.darwintohitler.com. 
"Progress through Racial Extermination: Social Darwinism, Eugenics, and Pacifism in Germany, 1860-1918," German Studies Review 26 (2003): 273-94. published by: Johns Hopkins University Press http://www.jstor.org/stable/1433326
Does Darwinism Devalue Human Life? by Richard Weikart, 
published in "The Human Life Review", March 1, 2004, www.discovery.org/a/2172 

It's a historical fact that continental drift which is a key foundation of plate tectonics was originally discovered and published on by a creationist, Antonio Snider, in 1858 in his book La Création et ses mystères dévoilés (Creation and its Mysteries Unveiled) based on creation thinking. But, it was rejected and ridiculed for decades because his scientific views were based on a global flood which had fallen into disfavor at that time and many of the intellectuals of that time were gungho in trying to reject anything connected with the Bible or a flood. He also had the misfortunate to publish it at about the time Darwin published his sensational claims which captured most of the attention at the time. So, Darwinian/secular scientists developed another hypothesis called geosynclinal cycle which has now been rejected by nearly all scientists (just like every version of universal common descent in history..and the modern synthesis is going down that same path now). Because these Darwinian/secular scientists presupposed that the Bible couldn't be true, they set back the science of plate tectonics by over 100 years. This one of many examples of how the Bible inspired good science and Darwinism crippled research in the right direction. 

Robert Ballard, discover of the Titanic has this to say about his education on this topic:
"I'm a geophysicist and all my earth science books when I was a student, I had to give the wrong answer to get an A. We used to ridicule continental drift. It was something we laughed at. We learned of Marshall Kay's geosynclinal cycle, which is a bunch of crap." 
Dr. Kurt Wise, a creationist with a Ph.D. in paleontology who studied under the famous Darwinian Stephen Gould at Harvard, gave a lecture about flood geology and shows with some depth how much VERY recent scientific evidence is showing that continental drift/plate tectonics had to have happened rapidly for many objective scientific reasons. Dr. Kurt Wise is someone with the highest integrity in science because he AGREES that there is evidence on BOTH sides of the debate (as anyone with integrity MUST, just as in sports where points on both sides must be recognized to be fair) and he shows this fairly at the beginning of the lecture (anyone who disagrees that there is evidence on both sides is not at all objective and can't fairly move to the next step of evaluating the evidence to find truth). But, then he goes on to show how if we look at all the available evidence, it's a much better fit with creation science theory and how really cool scientific discoveries have been made using creation science hypotheses. This evidence is a mammoth sized back breaker for old earth age concept. It is sort of like Pasteur's falsification of spontaneous generation..or close to it.
Chapel Spring 2014: Dr. Kurt Wise (The Genesis Lectures) 
www.youtube.com/watch?v=slmhueHhk5I (esp. ~18:15+) 
Dr. Kurt Wise, Dr. Baumgardner and several other scientists, both creationist and Darwinian have found significant evidence that shows that plate tectonics must have happened rapidly. His research has been cited by many scientists on all sides with the Darwinians of course increasing the ages to mythic proportions. The problem is that old age plate tectonics contradicts the observations that we have seen of nature and doesn't really function. When scientists are objective, this is a falsification.
There is one thing that Dr. Wise doesn't make clear. Biblical faith is not something we assume to be true and I don't think Dr. Wise believes that. It has the best track record of truth, accuracy, doing the best good for humanity in all history.
All Bible authors spoke of faith as based solidly on evidence, truth and proof. Only in the 1920s with a misguided Christian named Cornelius Van Til did the notion of faith being assumed gain significant support. See this for more on that:

We trust the Bible because it has been tested and proven true more than anything else in history, bar none. I think Kurt Wise believes this and is saying that because of the great track record and because we've proven God is real, we trust God above all else, including the views of experts now, since experts are repeatedly shown to be wrong over time. As Dr. Arbesman says, the half-life of truth is about 45 years, and what people think is true is proven wrong in part or whole in ~45 years. 


2Plate tectonics Empty Re: Plate tectonics Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:03 pm



In the last century or so, scientists have discovered that the earth has different tectonic plates. At different seams around the earth one plate will dive under another pl
ate and go down into the mantle which has a less dense upper mantle and then from around 670 km down a more dense lower mantle with a stable perovskite crystalline structure. These seams where the crust goes down into the mantle are called subduction zones. The temperature in the mantle can reach 4000 C. Calculations show that the temperatures in the mantle should cause the crust to be completely melted within a maximum of ~100 million years and probably much sooner. 

Darwinians have long believed in an old earth and uniformitarianism (although more and more Darwininians are accepting aspects of creationist catastrophism as scientific knowledge advances). This model has several specific consequences/predictions:
1) SPEED: The crust should always have moved at very slow speeds of centimeters per year since that is what we observe now usually. 
2) DEPTH: Due to this slow speed of movement, the crust should get burned up/consumed LONG before it goes far down in the mantle and so we should not expect to find any evidence of it deep down in the mantle. 
3) BOUNDARY: Since the crust is moving slowly, the crust doesn't have enough time or velocity to get through the lower mantle boundary before being burned up. And if it did happen to reach the ~670 km boundary, it would be stopped there due to its slow speed. So with an old earth, no crust should exist deep in the mantle, for sure not beyond the 670 km boundary.
4) POLE REVERSAL: Based on the uniformitarian/Darwinian dynamo hypothesis, magnetic pole reversals happen only once every 1000 years or so and so we would not expect to see them in lava. We should find the magnetic directions in lava being unidirectional.
5) SUBDUCTION LOCATION PREDICTION: I have not been able locate predictions by Darwinians similar to Baumgardner's so far.


3Plate tectonics Empty Re: Plate tectonics Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:03 pm



Dr. Baumgardner built a geological model that in contrast to the Darwinian model is based on a great deal of plate tectonic movement happening during the flood. He divided the earth up into over a million little boxes and worked to figure out how all the science laws we know about would impact the earth if a flood had in fact happened. The results of Dr. Baumgardner's creation model resulted in a number of specific consequences/predictions:
1) SPEED: The crust moves slowly at times, but during cataclysms, it can move quite rapidly. Due to massive geological movements during the flood, we should see evidence of cooler crust going quite deeply into the mantle and might take only a couple weeks to go very deeply into the mantle. 
2) DEPTH: Since the earth is only a few 1000 years old, there would not be enough time for the mantle to consume the crust and so we should be able to see the much colder crust going quite deep into the mantle. 
3) BOUNDARY: The crust would crash right through the 670 km barrier and go far deeper, sometimes even to the mantle/core boundary.
4) POLE REVERSAL: Creationists like Russ Humphrey's said that if there is catastrophic geological upheaval, this would cause disturbances in the mantle and the core that would affect the magnetic orientation of the poles. Magnetic pole reversals might happen every few days or every few weeks in certain conditions, such as during the flood. Humphreys predicted in 1986 that since magnetic orientations are frozen in lava, that we would someday catch these reversals in lava. 
5) SUBDUCTION LOCATION: Dr. Baumgardner's model predicted exactly where the Pacific crust should dive under North America. He also predicted that the whole entire 4000 kilometers of the mantle was overturned.
These were all predictions that Dr. Baumgardner, Humphreys and other creationists made in the 1980s. Baumgardner's model has been calculated for ~20 days so far. He wants to test it for longer periods, but at present it's too complicated and has crashed the most sophisticated computers in the world.


4Plate tectonics Empty Re: Plate tectonics Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:04 pm



What has science shown? Scientists have drilled 100s of holes down into the earth, but the deepest hole is only ~12 miles deep. That makes it hard to check what's happening far deeper. But then in th
e 1990s, scientists connected most/all of the seismometers on earth. This made it possible for them to look far deeper inside the earth, sort of like a sonogram. They were now finally able to detect much more of what was going on deep down in the earth. They were quite shocked. They found that:
1) SPEED: There was strong evidence that a great deal of colder crust has gone quite deeply down into the mantle. This means that it must have traveled much faster than Darwinians claimed in order to avoid getting burned up.
Creation science is vindicated and Darwinism falsified on plate tectonics.

2) DEPTH: The crust was not just going deeply down into the mantle, it was going way past the 670 km barrier that Darwinians thought would stop it. They detected that some of it reached all the way to the core/mantle boundary. 
Creation science is vindicated and Darwinism falsified on plate tectonics.

3) BOUNDARY: The crust has been detected to be continuing far past the 670 km barrier, even to the mantle/core boundary.

4) POLE REVERSAL: To test if magnetic poles reversed, scientists look at lava and the magnetic striping that it produces continually at places such as in the ocean's crust where it is hardened quickly by the cooler water. Again, if Darwinians were correct, we should see long sections of rock containing the same magnetic directions. Creation models would see a lot of reversals in much of the rock. 

In all 300 holes drilled deep enough to check, we see don't see the long unidirectional rock. We see lots of reversals as creation science predicts. In 1988, 2 years after creationists predictions that we would find reversals, Darwinian scientists did in fact find these reversals in18 inch lava flows and said that it flipped twice in 14 days.. They had a bear of a time publishing this fact though...until they caught it several more times..and even then it was hard because they were going against the popular ideology of Darwinism. 

Dr. Snelling reviews some of the peer reviewed evidence from creationists and Darwinians regarding plate tectonics and says:
"The magnetic field change found recorded in flow B51 at Steens Mountain was about 50,000 times faster than the 2,000 plus years previously thought to be the theoretical minimum time for geomagnetic reversals, and millions of times faster than the shortest reversals previously found recorded in geological strata, that is, according to the evolutionary time-scale. But these actual field data were found exactly as the creation scientist Humphreys, working within a young earth/Creation/Flood framework, predicted they would be. So if the magnetic reversals have occurred in days and weeks rather than thousands and millions of years, then the earth’s rock layers, in which there is a continuous sequence of these magnetic reversals, are by implication probably only thousands of years old. Thus these data are important new evidence for a young earth."

See this link for more explanations and peer reviewed references from both creationists and Darwinians confirming that ‘extraordinarily rapid’ reversals of the Earth’s magnetic field have indeed occurred and been recorded in lava flows. 

5) SUBDUCTION LOCATION: Scientific observations have confirmed that Dr. Baumgardner's predictions correlate almost exactly with where the Pacific crust dives under North America. That's an incredible correlation between the model and reality which is usually considered strong evidence or even proof that a model is correct. 
Creation science is vindicated and Darwinism falsified on plate tectonics.

ChristianAnswers mentions another important fact that catastrophic plate tectonics explains much better than other models do:
"Rapid subduction of the pre-flood ocean floor into the mantle results in new ocean floor that is dramatically hotter, especially in its upper 60 miles, not just at spreading ridges, but everywhere. Being hotter, the new ocean floor is of lower density and therefore rises 3,000 to 6,000 feet higher than before and implies a dramatic rise in global sea level.This higher sea level floods the continental surfaces and makes possible the deposition of large areas of sedimentary deposits on top of the normally high-standing continents. The Grand Canyon provides a spectacular window into the amazing layer-cake character of these sediment deposits that in many cases continue uninterrupted for more than 600 miles.16 Uniformitarian (“slow and gradual”) plate tectonics simply cannot account for such thick continental sediment sequences of such vast horizontal extent. 

Again, this is a prime example of how creation motivated good science, but Darwinism/anti-Bible science ideology, crippled good objective science. But, eventually even the Darwinians couldn't resist so much evidence and eventually kidnapped plate tectonics. They of course had to twist it to fit into an ancient earth time scale, similar to how they have kidnapped concepts in the Big Bang that point decisively to God (an expanding universe with a beginning and others) and tried to make them atheistic and many others. They even change charts that Dr. Baumgardner produced in his plate tectonics work to fit their Darwinian assumptions. 

Dr. Baumgardner's website: globalflood.org 
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c001.html (good layman's overview)
https://answersingenesis.org/.../can-catastrophic-plate.../creation.com/probing-the-earths-deep-places (

You can see a few other articles/videos on this here:
Noah's Flood: Key to Understanding the Age of the Earth (Part 2) 

Catastrophic Plate Tectonics: A Global Flood Model of Earth History 


5Plate tectonics Empty Troy Lawrence Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:36 pm



Thanks to: Troy Lawrence
Do you want irrefutable evidence that the tectonic plates moved fast? And with this evidence, then Pangaea did not break apart 220 million years ago, but recently as in with the global flood of Genesis 7.
1. In northern California, there is a tectonic plate that goes through a river delta, now if these tectonic plates have been slowly moving for 220 million years, then there should be several prior river deltas above where the tectonic plate moved them. But there is not.
2. Since the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is diverging and pushing North American Plate and Pacific Plate under the Asian Plate, then we look to the Pacific ocean floor and observe evidence to show us the velocity of travel of the Pacific Plate. Observe the Hawaiian Islands, they are islands because the Pacific plate has moved slow enough over a hot spot to form islands, but proceeding behind the Hawaiian Island chain is a couple hundred smaller underwater mountains that did not have enough time over the hot spot to form islands. These smaller underwater mountain chains are called Emperor chain. And these small mountains are proof positive that the Pacific Plate was moving too fast at one time to form islands.
3. No river delta on earth has enough sediment deposit to establish an age older than 4,500 years.
4. The longer tectonic plates do not move, the greater the potential energy, which results in greater kinetic energy. This means the longer potential energy builds up, the faster the speed once the static friction is reduced. And the Bible explains that there was a mechanism involved in the Flood that reduced the friction coeficient for tectonic plates, and that is found in Genesis 7:11, "the deep caverns burst forth . . . for 40 days and 40 nights." These deep caverns, super heated water, highly viscous magma, would have reduced the friction coeficient for tectonic plates to move.
And when I argue fast tectonic plates, I'm in the order of 1-2 MPH, which is not out of the realm of plausible because we have already measured tectonic plates can move quite fast depending on the amount of stored energy and soil content.
Summary: The evidence is there to debunk that Pangaea broke apart 220 million years ago, and instead the tectonic plates broke apart during the catastrophic flood as asteroids fractured the crust of the earth and release 1,650 years of potential energy, and tectonic plates slide on super heated deep caverns, and these tectonic plates squished out the water and magma through the fault lines, and this supplied all the sediment for the layers of the crust.


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