Defending the Christian Worlview, Creationism, and Intelligent Design
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Defending the Christian Worlview, Creationism, and Intelligent Design

This is my personal virtual library, where i collect information, which leads in my view to the Christian faith, creationism, and Intelligent Design as the best explanation of the origin of the physical Universe, life, and biodiversity


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Defending the Christian Worlview, Creationism, and Intelligent Design » Intelligent Design » Abiogenesis: The factory maker argument

Abiogenesis: The factory maker argument

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Otangelo


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Abiogenesis: The factory maker argument - Page 2 Sem_tz43

Abiogenesis: The factory maker argument - Page 2 Sem_tz44

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Otangelo


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Book Excerpt: A Factory That Builds Factories That Build Factories That…

https://evolutionnews.org/2020/05/book-excerpt-a-factory-that-builds-factories-that-build-factories-that/?fbclid=IwAR2atWrgS-MzfAtV_bRX3HkI6O7MN9ZcOZNmJuEZ5Gn-BA8fVWP9h-bJy-o




“The Activity of a Cell Is Like That of a Factory”

https://evolutionnews.org/2020/05/the-activity-of-a-cell-is-like-that-of-a-factory/?fbclid=IwAR2xLG_NGjSFmkRa-fVPt7hQ53s93pN-JazYOFa2fU2j1bmkHkSfvncWKGM

“At the cellular level, biology concerns the operation of the cell in its pursuit of life, not simply the molecular infrastructure that forms the physiochemical underpinnings of life. The activity of a cell is like that of a factory, where machines manufacture products, energy is consumed, information is stored, information is processed, decisions are made, and signals are sent to maintain proper factory organization and operation.12 Once a factory exceeds a very small number of interconnected components, coordinating its operations goes beyond a commonsense, nonmathematical approach. Cells have massive numbers of interconnected components.” [Emphasis added.]

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Otangelo


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In order to function properly, each cell in our body has very specific raw materials requirements. These nutrient raw materials enable each cell to perform its specific metabolic task. As a result of healthy and normal metabolism, each cell produces beneficial products, and each cell also produces waste products that are detrimental and toxic to the host cell.

These toxic waste products must be identified, neutralized, and eliminated on a regular basis or the host cell will get sick, degenerate, and die. If the cell replicates (divides or gives birth to offspring cells) in a condition of unresolved toxicity, or unrepaired damage, or if it is weak, sick, or diseased, it will pass on these irregularities to the offspring cells. This situation can lead to the continuous replication of abnormal or irregular cells within tissues and organs of the body.

Vigilant quality control - in the form of conscientious monitoring of the incoming raw materials and the outgoing products and waste products of our little cellular factories - is one of the keys to health.

The cells of our body are constantly sending messages to the cells of our brain to make sure the brain is aware of how all factories are doing. Think of the brain as the inspector general for all those trillion plus factories. Are we listening? Are we in communication with the inspector general in our own body/brain/mind? How do we respond to the various calls we get on a daily basis from the cells to the inspector general? How are we communicating with our own internal cellular communication system?

http://www.healthyfutures.net/ADD-Plus/products/betternutrition/factory.php

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Otangelo


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Question: what is the better explanation for the origin of the following things?

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t2245p25-abiogenesis-the-factory-maker-argument#7904

- factory portals with fully automated security checkpoints and control
- factory compartments
- a library index and fully automated information classification, storage, and retrieval program
- computer hardware
- software, a language using signs and codes like the alphabet, an instructional blueprint,
- information retrieval systems
- information transmission systems
- translation systems
- complex robotlike machines
- taxis adapted for cargo transport and delivery, with GPS systems
- highways
- tagging programs informing taxis were to transport goods
- factory assembly lines
- error check and repair systems
- recycling machines
- waste grinders and management
- power generating plants
- power turbines
- electric circuits

Chance, or intelligent design ?

The cell is a factory - adios materialism.

1. Computer hard-drives with high capacity of digital data storage, software programs based on languages using statistics, syntax, semantics, pragmatics, and apobetics, and the elaboration of complex instructional blueprints through those software programs, and data transmission systems (encoding, sending, decoding), all operated through computers and interlinked computer networks, which prescribe, drive, direct, operate and control interlinked compartmentalized factory parks making products for specific purposes, full of autonomous, robotlike high-tech production lines, high-efficiency power plants, complex high-tech robots with autoregulation and feedback loops, producing products with minimal error rates, that are transported through GPS driven transport carriers to their destination, all driven through energy made by high rotative turbines and power plants, are always set up by intelligent agents designing those things for purposeful goals.

2. Science has unraveled, that cells, strikingly, contain, and operate through all those things. Cells are cybernetic, ingeniously crafted cities full of factories. Cells contain information, which is stored in genes (books), and libraries (chromosomes). Cells have superb, fully automated information classification, storage, and retrieval programs ( gene regulatory networks ) which orchestrate strikingly precise and regulated gene expression. Cells also contain hardware - a masterful information-storage molecule ( DNA ) - and software, more efficient than millions of alternatives ( the genetic code ) - ingenious information encoding, transmission, and decoding machinery ( RNA polymerase, mRNA, the Ribosome ) - and highly robust signaling networks ( hormones and signaling pathways ) - awe-inspiring error check and repair systems of data ( for example mind-boggling Endonuclease III which error checks and repairs DNA through electric scanning ). Information systems, which prescribe, drive, direct, operate, and control interlinked compartmentalized self-replicating cell factory parks that perpetuate and thrive life. Large high-tech multimolecular robotlike machines ( proteins ) and factory assembly lines of striking complexity ( fatty acid synthase, non-ribosomal peptide synthase ) are interconnected into functional large metabolic networks. In order to be employed at the right place, once synthesized, each protein is tagged with an amino acid sequence, and clever molecular taxis ( motor proteins dynein, kinesin, transport vesicles ) load and transport them to the right destination on awe-inspiring molecular highways ( tubulins, actin filaments ). All this, of course, requires energy. Responsible for energy generation are high-efficiency power turbines ( ATP synthase )- superb power generating plants ( mitochondria ) and electric circuits ( highly intricate metabolic networks ). When something goes havoc, fantastic repair mechanisms are ready in place. There are protein folding error check and repair machines ( chaperones), and if molecules become non-functional, advanced recycling methods take care ( endocytic recycling ) - waste grinders and management ( Proteasome Garbage Grinders )

3. Chemist Wilhelm Huck, professor at Radboud University, Netherlands: A working cell is more than the sum of its parts. "A functioning cell must be entirely correct at once, in all its complexity. Cells, containing all those things are irreducibly complex. Without energy, information, or the basic building blocks fully synthesized, there would be no life. All this is best explained as a product of a super-intellect, an agency equipped with unfathomable intelligence - through the direct intervention, creative force, and activity of an intelligent cognitive agency, a powerful creator.



Last edited by Admin on Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:47 am; edited 3 times in total

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Otangelo


Admin
What is the better explanation for the origin of the following things?

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t2245p25-abiogenesis-the-factory-maker-argument#7912

- factory portals with fully automated security checkpoints and control
- factory compartments
- a library index and fully automated information classification, storage, and retrieval program
- computer hardware
- software, a language using signs and codes like the alphabet, an instructional blueprint,
- information retrieval systems
- information transmission systems
- translation systems
- complex robotlike machines
- taxis adapted for cargo transport and delivery, with GPS systems
- highways
- tagging programs informing taxis were to transport goods
- factory assembly lines
- error check and repair systems, electric scanning
- recycling machines
- waste grinders and management
- power generating plants
- power turbines
- electric circuits

Chance, or intelligent design?

- factory portals with fully automated security checkpoints and control ( membrane proteins )
- factory compartments ( organelles )
- a library index and fully automated information classification, storage, and retrieval program ( chromosomes, and the gene regulatory network )
- molecular computers, hardware ( DNA )
- software, a language using signs and codes like the alphabet, an instructional blueprint, ( the genetic and over a dozen epigenetic codes )
- information retrieval ( RNA polymerase )
- transmission ( messenger RNA )
- translation ( Ribosome )
- signaling ( hormones )
- complex machines ( proteins )
- taxis ( dynein, kinesin, transport vesicles )
- molecular highways ( tubulins, actins, used by dynein and kinesin proteins for molecular transport to various destinations )
- tagging programs ( each protein has a tag, which is an amino acid sequence ) informing other molecular transport machines where to transport them.
- factory assembly lines ( fatty acid synthase, non-ribosomal peptide synthase )
- error check and repair systems, electric scanning  ( exonucleolytic proofreading, strand-directed mismatch repair )
- recycling methods ( endocytic recycling )
- waste grinders and management  ( Proteasome Garbage Grinders )  
- power generating plants ( mitochondria )
- power turbines ( ATP synthase )
- electric circuits ( the metabolic network )

The cell is a factory 

1. Computer hard-drives with high capacity of digital data storage, software programs based on languages using statistics, syntax, semantics, pragmatics, and apobetics, and the elaboration of complex instructional blueprints through those software programs, and data transmission systems (encoding, sending, decoding), all operated through computers and interlinked computer networks, which prescribe, drive, direct, operate and control interlinked compartmentalized factory parks making products for specific purposes, full of autonomous, robotlike high-tech production lines, high-efficiency power plants, complex high-tech robots with autoregulation and feedback loops, producing products with minimal error rates, that are transported through GPS driven transport carriers to their destination, all driven through energy made by high rotative turbines and power plants, are always set up by intelligent agents designing those things for purposeful goals.

2. Science has unraveled, that cells, strikingly, contain, and operate through all those things. Cells are cybernetic, ingeniously crafted cities full of factories. Cells contain information, which is stored in genes (books), and libraries (chromosomes). Cells have superb, fully automated information classification, storage, and retrieval programs ( gene regulatory networks ) which orchestrate strikingly precise and regulated gene expression. Cells also contain hardware - a masterful information-storage molecule ( DNA ) - and software, more efficient than millions of alternatives ( the genetic code ) - ingenious information encoding, transmission, and decoding machinery ( RNA polymerase, mRNA, the Ribosome ) - and highly robust signaling networks ( hormones and signaling pathways ) - awe-inspiring error check and repair systems of data ( for example mind-boggling Endonuclease III which error checks and repairs DNA through electric scanning ). Information systems, which prescribe, drive, direct, operate, and control interlinked compartmentalized self-replicating cell factory parks that perpetuate and thrive life. Large high-tech multimolecular robotlike machines ( proteins ) and factory assembly lines of striking complexity ( fatty acid synthase, non-ribosomal peptide synthase ) are interconnected into functional large metabolic networks. In order to be employed at the right place, once synthesized, each protein is tagged with an amino acid sequence, and clever molecular taxis ( motor proteins dynein, kinesin, transport vesicles ) load and transport them to the right destination on awe-inspiring molecular highways ( tubulins, actin filaments ). All this, of course, requires energy. Responsible for energy generation are high-efficiency power turbines ( ATP synthase )- superb power generating plants ( mitochondria ) and electric circuits ( highly intricate metabolic networks ). When something goes havoc, fantastic repair mechanisms are ready in place. There are protein folding error check and repair machines ( chaperones), and if molecules become non-functional, advanced recycling methods take care ( endocytic recycling ) - waste grinders and management ( Proteasome Garbage Grinders )

3. Chemist Wilhelm Huck, professor at Radboud University, Netherlands: A working cell is more than the sum of its parts. "A functioning cell must be entirely correct at once, in all its complexity. Cells, containing all those things are irreducibly complex. Without energy, information, or the basic building blocks fully synthesized, there would be no life. All this is best explained as a product of a super-intellect, an agency equipped with unfathomable intelligence - through the direct intervention, creative force, and activity of an intelligent cognitive agency, a powerful creator.

I don't choose to be a theist. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. 
I just can not force my brain to accept the claim that Biological cells which are a factory park of unparalleled gigantic complexity and purposeful adaptive design of interlinked high-tech fabrics, fully automated and self-replicating, directed by genes and epigenetic languages and signaling networks, could emerge by no guiding intelligence, but random unguided lucky accidents.

Intelligent design theory is like a sword with two edges
It wins using eliminative induction based on the fact that its competitors are false. Materialism explains basically nothing consistently in regards to origins but is based on unwarranted consensus and scientific materialism, a philosophical framework, that should never have been applied to historical sciences. Evidence should be permitted to lead wherever it is. Also, eventually, to an intelligent agency as the best explanation of origins.

And intelligent design wins based on abductive reasoning, using inference to the best explanation, relying on positive evidence, on the fact that basically all-natural phenomena demonstrate the imprints and signature of intelligent input and setup. We see an unfolding plan, a universe governed by laws, that follows mathematical principles, finely adjusted on all levels, from the Big Bang, to the earth, to permit life, which is governed by instructional complex information stored in genes and epigenetically, encoding, transmitting and decoding information, used to build, control and maintain irreducible complex and interdependent machines, robots, fully automated manufacturing production lines, transport carriers, turbines, transistors, computers, and factory parks, employed to give rise to a wide range, millions of species, of unimaginably complex multicellular organisms.


Abiogenesis: The factory maker argument - Page 2 Unname10



Last edited by Admin on Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:03 am; edited 5 times in total

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Otangelo


Admin
Biological Cell factories point overwhelmingly to set up by intelligent design

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t1279p75-abiogenesis-is-mathematically-impossible#7761

factory portals with fully automated security checkpoints and control ( membrane proteins )
factory compartments ( organelles )
a library index and fully automated information classification, storage, and retrieval program ( chromosomes, and the gene regulatory network )
molecular computers, hardware ( DNA )
software, a language using signs and codes like the alphabet, an instructional blueprint, ( the genetic and over a dozen epigenetic codes )
information retrieval ( RNA polymerase )
transmission ( messenger RNA )
translation ( Ribosome )
signaling ( hormones )
complex machines ( proteins )
taxis ( dynein, kinesin, transport vesicles )
molecular highways ( tubulins, used by dynein and kinesin proteins for molecular transport to various destinations )
tagging programs ( each protein has a tag, which is an amino acid sequence ) informing other molecular transport machines where to transport them.
factory assembly lines ( fatty acid synthase, non-ribosomal peptide synthase )
error check and repair systems  ( exonucleolytic proofreading, strand-directed mismatch repair )
recycling methods ( endocytic recycling )
waste grinders and management  ( Proteasome Garbage Grinders )  
power generating plants ( mitochondria )
power turbines ( ATP synthase )
electric circuits ( the metabolic network )

1. Factory portals - factory compartments - a library index and fully automated information classification systems, storage and retrieval programs - molecular computers - hardware ( DNA )- software, a language using signs and codes like the alphabet, an instructional blueprint - information retrieval - transmission - translation - signaling - the make of complex machines - taxis - transport highways - tagging programs - factory assembly lines - error check and repair systems - recycling methods - waste grinders and management  - power generating plants - power turbines - electric circuits - machines - robots - fully automated manufacturing production lines - transport carriers - turbines - transistors - computers - and factories are always set up by intelligent designers.
2. Science has discovered, that cells are literally chemical nano factories, that operate based on molecular machines, protein robots, kinesin protein carriers, autonomous self-regulated production lines, generate energy through turbines, neuron transistors, and computers.
3. Therefore, with extremely high probability, cell factory complexes containing all those things are the product of an intelligent designer.

Engineering requires an engineer. An artificial cell or minimal cell is an engineered particle that mimics one or many functions of a biological cell. Mimicking a living cell requires engineers. 1
Architecture requires an architect.  Biological Cells demonstrate a complex architectural structure like a factory complex in a building  2
Orchestration requires a director. Gene regulatory networks orchestrate the expression of genes 3
Organization requires an organizer. Cells are organized into tissues, which are organized into organs, which are organized into organ systems 4
Programming languages are always set up by programmersGenes together form the master DNA program 5
Translation programs are always set up by translation programmers. 64 Codons of the genetic code are assigned to 20 amino acids during translation in the Ribosome.  6
Communication systems require network engineers. Cells give and receive messages with its environment and with itself. 7
Electrical networks require electrical engineers. Biological cells contain bioelectric circuits 8
Logistics require a logistic specialist. The cytoskeleton and microtubules serve as tracks for motor protein-based intracellular transport 9
Modular organization requires a modular project manager. Proteins and protein complexes organize intracellular interactions into networks of modules 10
Setting up recycling systems require a recycling technician. Cells sort out usable proteins for recycling 11
Setting up power plants requires systems engineers of power plants. Mitochondria are unusual organelles. They act as the power plants of the cell 12
Nanoscale technology requires nano processes, development engineers Living systems use biological nanomotors to build life’s essential molecules—such as DNA and proteins 13
Product planning and control require a production control coordinator. Eukaryotic cells have intricate regulatory control over the production of proteins and their RNA intermediates. 14
Product Quantity and Variant Flexibility control require product management engineers. Cells are extremely good at making products with high robustness, flexibility, and efficiency. 15
Waste disposal and management require a waste logistics manager.   Cells use proteasomes as "garbage disposal," 16
Creating a language requires intelligence. Cells use a remarkable variety of languages and communication methods 17
Creating Instructional information requires intelligent specialistsSoluble cues, cell-cell contact-dependent signals coordinate, encode and transmit regulatory information to instruct single-cell behavior18
Coordination requires a coordinator Circadian clocks are cell-autonomous timing mechanisms that organize and coordinate cell functions in a 24-h periodicity.19
Setting up strategies requires a strategist.    Cells use strategies to minimize energy consumption, by employing a number of common metabolic pathways for a variety of intermediate products before the pathway splits into different final products.  20
Regulation requires a regulator.  Regulatory circuits responsible for the function of individual genes or gene sets are at the lowest regulatory level. Then, there are circuits underlying the functions of cells, tissues, organs, and entire organisms. Endocrine and nervous systems are the regulatory circuits of the highest hierarchical level. 21
Controlling requires intelligence that sets up and programs the automatic control functions. Various cell cycle regulators control the Cell Cycle. 22
Recruiting requires intelligence which instructs autonomous programs how to do it. Proteins are for example recruited to fix DNA lesions. 23
Interpretation and response require intelligence which creates an interpretation program.  Cells monitor, interpret and respond to internal and external cues. 24
Setting up switch mechanisms based on logic gates with on and off states require intelligent setup. DNA binding proteins work based on circuit principles and logic gates 25
Setting up transport highways requires  Transportation Development engineers. Microtubules can act as specific transport roads for the trafficking of signaling factors 26
Controlled factory implosion programming requires an Explosive Safety Specialist Apoptosis is a form of programmed cell death that occurs in multicellular organisms. 27

Actions like engineering, architecting, orchestrating, organizing, programming, translating, setting up communication channels, electric networks, logistic networks, organizing modular systems, recycling systems, making power plants in nanoscale dimensions, product planning and control, establishing product quality and variant flexibility, setting up waste disposal and management systems, creating languages and instructional information, coordinating, setting up strategies, regulating, controlling, recruiting, interpreting and responding, setting up switch mechanisms based on logic gates, setting up transport highways and GPS systems, and controlled factory implosion, are ALWAYS and EXCLUSIVELY assigned to the action of intelligent agents. No exceptions

We can conclude, therefore, that biological systems, which cleverly perform all the demanding, multifaceted job activities described above, are most likely due to the set up of an intelligent designer(s). It is extraordinarily unlikely, statistically, and chemically, that blind fortune would be up to the task. Only a master player with foresight guided by superb chemical wisdom, putting all those systems together in a proper way is an explanation that makes sense.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cell
2. https://www.nature.com/articles/nrm2460
3. https://www.nature.com/articles/nrm2428
4. https://flexbooks.ck12.org/cbook/ck-12-biology-flexbook-2.0/section/2.10/primary/lesson/organization-of-cells-bio
5. https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-the-dna-computer-program-makes-you-and-me-20180405/
6. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29870756/
7. https://www.nature.com/scitable/topic/cell-communication-14122659/
8. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK549549/
9. https://sci-hub.tw/https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-cellbio-100818-125149
10. https://www.pnas.org/content/100/3/1128
11. https://phys.org/news/2020-01-cells-recycle-components.html
12. https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/mitochondria-14053590/
13. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Viola_Vogel/publication/23154570_Harnessing_Biological_Motors_to_Engineer_Systems_for_Nanoscale_Transport_and_Assembly/links/551ab0590cf2bb754076cac6/Harnessing-Biological-Motors-to-Engineer-Systems-for-Nanoscale-Transport-and-Assembly.pdf
14. https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/eukaryotic-cells-14023963/
15. https://ink.library.smu.edu.sg/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2060&context=lkcsb_research
16. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3524306/
17. http://jonlieffmd.com/blog/the-remarkable-language-of-cells
18. https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/12/eaay5696
19. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5057284/
20. http://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/pdf/10.1287/msom.1030.0033
21. http://www.bionet.nsc.ru/meeting/bgrs_proceedings/papers/1998/27/index.html
22. https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-biology1/chapter/control-of-the-cell-cycle/
23. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1317637/
24. https://europepmc.org/article/med/27856508
25. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4230274/
26. https://jcs.biologists.org/content/126/11/2319
27. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apoptosis

Abiogenesis: The factory maker argument - Page 2 Image010

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Otangelo


Admin
Gods existence is based on gaps of knowledge, you say?

Assignment must be done by intelligence
Architecture requires an architect.
Communication systems require network engineers.
Computers require computer makers
Creating a language requires intelligence
Creating Instructional information requires intelligent specialists 
Coordination requires a coordinator
Controlling requires intelligence
Controlled factory implosion programming requires an Explosive Safety Specialist
Electrical networks require electrical engineers
Engineering requires an engineer
Factories require factory makers
Fine-tuning requires a fine-tuner
Logistics requires a logistic specialist
Laws require a lawmaker
Life can only be created by preexisting life
Modular organization requires a modular project manager
Nanoscale technology requires nano processes, development engineers
Orchestration requires a director
Organization requires an organizer
Product planning and control require a production control coordinator
Product Quantity and Variant Flexibility control require product management engineers
Programming languages are always set up by programmers
Regulation requires a regulator 
Recruiting requires intelligence 

Rules require a rule maker
Setting up recycling systems require a recycling technician
Setting up power plants requires systems engineers of power plants
Setting up strategies requires a strategist
Setting up switch mechanisms based on logic gates with on and off states require intelligent setup
Setting up transport highways requires  Transportation Development engineers
Translation programs are always set up by translation programmers
The Universe requires a Universe creator.
The making of chemistry requires a chemist
Waste disposal and management require a waste logistics manager

The above actions are all observed to occur in the natural world, and its origin is therefore best explained by a super powerful and intelligent creator.


activating,
binding,
breaking,
coordinating,
conferring positional information,
directing,
forcing transmission,
generating,
guiding,
helping to organize,
inducing, 
informing, 
mediating, 
modulating, 
organizing, 
orienting, 
providing positioning rules, 
provoking changes, 
promoting, 
regulating, 
signaling, 
stretching, 
specifying, 

are all actions performed in cells during the formation and morpho-genesis of single eukaryotic cells, structure, and shape, and tissues.

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33Abiogenesis: The factory maker argument - Page 2 Empty Re: Abiogenesis: The factory maker argument Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:23 pm

Otangelo


Admin
Complex artifacts made by man for specific purposes almost always require a manufacturing and assembly process which is more complex than the device to be made itself. I don't know of ANY factory, that makes products, that are equally complex, or more complex, than the factory, and the efforts to produce it. If we quantify the information, energy, and physical parts (machines, etc), and compare it to the product made, the former is always more complex than the latter. But remarkably, in life, in a VERY dramatic way, the opposite is the case. One single fertilized human egg stores the information, to make an organism, which, when grown up, is made of 37 trillion cells!! Think about that ??!! Science is not even close to unraveling how this is possible. And while human factories require a lot of human intervention, cell factories operate 100% autonomously. Self-replication is the epitome of manufacturing sophistication. The machine in the core of the process in biology is the Ribosome. it requires several hundreds of assembly machines, which make the machines, which make the subunits of the Ribosome. Once each subunit is made, it goes through a very delicate, precise, and orchestrated test drive process. Even long-range communication between the assembly machines monitor if the newly synthesized ribosome subunit was produced properly, and only if the test drive is successful, the subunit is incorporated in the maturation of the ribosome. If not, there are proteasome grinders waiting to recycle the misfolded product, which, otherwise, would accumulate, and toxic the cell. Once the assembly factors have done their job, they are re-used in the next round to make the next ribosome. All this had to emerge prior when life started, and so evolution was not the hero on the block. So one has either to believe, that all this enormously complex machine-building emerged spontaneously for no reason at all, or there was a super-intellect, that conceptualized life, and instantiated it, through his far superior intellectual capacity, then we humans have. Either chance or design. What is the superior, more rational explanation?

We, as intelligent beings, are only able to make devices using a more complex assembly process than the device as product, while nature can make an equally complex product, like a single cell self-replicating, BUT even a pluripotent cell like a fertilized human egg can give rise to a MUCH more complex organism, like a grown human with 37 trillion cells. So we go from complex => simple, while nature is able to go from simple ( one cell ) to trillions.... The second, of course, being a far more advanced production process. Human factories make less complex products. Gods factories make more complex products. While our factories require the constant mental input ( factory workers), Gods factories ( cells ) are fully automated, and work robot like, in an independent manner, for millennia by self replication.

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34Abiogenesis: The factory maker argument - Page 2 Empty Re: Abiogenesis: The factory maker argument Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:48 pm

Otangelo


Admin
Let us suppose someone would provide you with blueprints/assembly and manufacturing instructions to make a 3D printer. It would contain all the detailed and precise specifications  to make each single elementary part and subunit, a list of the raw materials, and all instructions to assemble and integrate the subunits. You would also receive all raw materials like plastic, glass, metal, resins, carbon fibers, graphene, nitinol etc. Now you would hand over both, the materials, and the instructional blueprints, to a highly trained and specialized team of engineers, each with its specialization, and asking them to manufacture the 3D printer. You would give them any time they would ask for. What they would lack, is the facility (factory) with the manufacturing equipment (which requires an entirely different set of specifications and expertise) that produce the subunits of the 3D printers and the production lines to assemble them. But this manufacturing equipment,  machines/robots, and production lines on the other hand, require as well precise specifications and factories in order to be made. In other words, what is required, are factories, that make factories, that make the subunits, and assembly of the 3D printer. The more automated and autonomous the process would have to be, the more complexity would have to be added. On top of that, the entire assembly process would have to be without external input of information, nor intelligent action. Everything would have to be preprogrammed, and if something during the manufacturing process breaks down, there would have to be mechanisms to detect the errors, and repair them. The entire manufacturing process would also have to be self-regulated, and under constant assembly control. Also the environment of the factories would have to be constantly monitored, and any change, like temperature, pH, air purity etc. detected and fixed.  It is evident, that the entire process requires foresight.  Things with specific purposes are always first the product of a creative mind, and then physically instantiated. With the end in mind, a blueprint is made which permits the implementation of the desired result. What i described, is what analogously happens in the biogenesis process of the Ribosome. 

Ribosomes are large multimolecular machines that synthesize proteins from amino acids in living cells.The process of making a single eukaryotic ribosome is a herculean task. Eukaryotes have 80S ribosomes  consisting of a small (40S) and large (60S) subunit. Their 40S subunit has an 18S RNA (1900 nucleotides) and 33 proteins. The large subunit is composed of a 5S RNA (120 nucleotides), 28S RNA (4700 nucleotides), a 5.8S RNA (160 nucleotides) subunits and 49 proteins.

In Saccharomyces cerevisiae (single-celled fungus microorganisms), nearly 7000 nucleotides of pre-rRNA must be accurately transcribed, cleaved, folded, chemically modified by 71 snoRNPs  and assembled with 78 ribosomal proteins (r-proteins) to form one mature ribosome. Despite the immensity of this task, about 2000 new ribosomes are produced each minute in yeast (~7500 subunits per minute in human HeLa cells), leading to the presence of ~200 000 ribosomes in each cell (~10 million in each human HeLa cell) Several sub-complexes are involved in ribosome biogenesis.  There are numerous enzymes involved in maturation steps of pre-ribosomes.  Eukaryotic cells contain large populations of small nucleolar RNA-protein complexes, called snoRNPs, and these complexes mediate the formation of modified nucleotides in ribosomal RNA (rRNA) and facilitate cleavage of rRNA precursors. They contain a component called snoRNA. Small nucleolar RNAs (snoRNAs) are a class of small RNA  molecules that primarily guide chemical modifications of other RNAs, mainly ribosomal RNAs , transfer RNAs  and small nuclear RNAs .

Dozens of Assembly Factors are involved in snoRNP production. The snoRNAs function in association with specific proteins and thus form ribonucleoproteins (snoRNPs). To date, about 80 different snoRNAs have been found in the yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae, and almost twice as many in human cells. Some snoRNAs are much more abundant than others, for instance there is about 200 000 copies of U3 in human cells. The snoRNAs are relatively short molecules ranging between 60 and 600 nucleotides, but most of them are in the range of 70–200 nucleotides. They can be grouped into two major families called C/D and H/ACA; this classification is based on conserved sequence motifs.

snoRNA and its associated proteins can be quite complex. U3 snoRNA and all of its associated proteins for example are very large and complex, containing over 30 different proteins, and it has been coined the SSU processome.  The snoRNAs function in the form of ribonucleoproteins (RNPs).

Expression of snoRNAs: Rapid and efficient production of large quantities of sno-RNAs may be crucial for cell survival. Cajal bodies (CBs) are spherical nuclear organelles that are often seen juxtaposed or near the nucleolus. CBs appear to be sites of biogenesis or recycling of various ribonucleoproteins (RNPs)

My comment: So these RNP's have an own factory, where they are synthesized. That indicates their importance. Quite remarkable. So the factory (Cajal bodies) is annexed and near another factory (nucleolus), and both are involved in the making of ribosomes, which are protein factories. Interlinked factories, that make factories, hosted inside a giant factory, the cell, which makes other factories ( cells ).  

These organelles harbour a specific subset of small RNAs called scaRNAs (small Cajal body-specific RNAs) that are structurally and functionally indistinguishable from snoRNAs. Most scaRNAs are implicated in posttranscriptional
modifications of polII-transcribed spliceosomal snRNAs (U1, U2,U4 and U5). snoRNAs assemble or mature in CBs before transiting to the nucleolus.

My comment: So this is the picture:Small nucleolar RNAs (snoRNAs) are involved in the Pre-ribosomal RNA Processing and Modification. And scaRNAs (small Cajal body-specific RNAs) are implicated in post-transcriptional modifications of snRNAs. This is analogously of machines (snoRNAs) making machines (snoRNAs) , that are employed in the processing of of subunits of other machines (ribosomes) which are themselves involved in making machines ( proteins, and subunits of ribosomes ). That is a catch22 situation. It takes ribosomes to make ribosomes. What came first ?

Biosynthesis, assembly, and transport of sno/scaRNPs 3
The sno/scaRNAs follow a unique biosynthetic pathway before they are transported to the Cajal bodies. Both C/D and H/ACA sno/scaRNAs are synthesized in the nucleoplasm, processed, assembled with their respective proteins, and transported to the Cajal body

My comment: This is truly remarkable. For some reasons, these RNA's are made in the nucleoplasm, and not in the Cajal body. Transporting them to the Caja body means more complexity. 

Biosynthesis of scaRNAs
Nearly all sno/scaRNAs are intronic sequences that are freed from the primary transcript by endonucleases or by splicing after mRNA processing. Protein binding near sno/scaRNA terminals trigger exonucleases to degrade both ends of the intronic sequence until reaching the sno/scaRNA structure, where further degradation is inhibited by a bound protein and the mature sno/scaRNA is released

Assembly of scaRNPs Binding of the 15.5K protein initiates the assembly of box C/D RNPs. In archaea, the L7Ae (15.5K in eukaryotes) and sno/scaRNA complex is recognized by nucleolar protein 5 (Nop5) (Nop56 and Nop58 in eukaryotes). Binding of L7Ae forms and stabilizes the K-turn which allows Nop5 and fibrillarin to join the complex. In eukaryotes, Nop58 binds first with fibrillarin and Nop56 joins the complex later. The N-terminal domain (NTD) is responsible for interaction with fibrillarin. scaRNAs are composite C/D and H/ACA box snoRNA. Assembly of H/ACA RNPs requires the specific chaperone, Shq1 which binds dyskerin (Cbf5 in archaea and NAP57 in rodents) to prevent degradation, aggregation, and binding to the premature RNA before co-transcriptional association. SHQ1 is an essential assembly factor for H/ACA ribonucleoproteins (RNPs) 4

My comment: This adds another layer of complexity.  Pre-ribosomal RNA Processing and Modification requires. Small nucleolar RNAs (snoRNAs), which, in order to become functional, depend on post-transcriptional modifications of scaRNAs (small Cajal body-specific RNAs), which require for their assembly the specific chaperone, Shq1. In other words: A functional Ribosome requires subunits, which require for their processing  (snoRNAs), which require for their maturation (snoRNAs), which require for their assembly specific chaperone, Shq1

snoRNAs are highly conserved ( they have not changed). They are found in mammals, amphibians, fishes, plants, yeast, trypanosomes and even archaebacteria. Another fascinating feature of the snoRNA world is the presence of brain-specific snoRNAs in mice and humans. The very large number of snoRNAs, the diversity of their structure and biological roles (modification of rRNAs, tRNAs, mRNAs and snRNAs) in addition to the fact that they are highly conserved throughout evolution may reflect that they are life essential, and evidence of intelligent design. 

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