ElShamah - Reason & Science: Defending ID and the Christian Worldview
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ElShamah - Reason & Science: Defending ID and the Christian Worldview

Otangelo Grasso: This is my library, where I collect information and present arguments developed by myself that lead, in my view, to the Christian faith, creationism, and Intelligent Design as the best explanation for the origin of the physical world.

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1 Neanderthals  Empty Neanderthals Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:10 pm



New method confirms humans and Neanderthals interbred

Technical objections to the idea that Neanderthals interbred with the ancestors of Eurasians have been overcome, thanks to a genome analysis method described in the April 2014 issue of the journal Genetics. The technique can more confidently detect the genetic signatures of interbreeding than previous approaches and will be useful for evolutionary studies of other ancient or rare DNA samples.

"Our approach can distinguish between two subtly different scenarios that could explain the genetic similarities shared by Neanderthals and modern humans from Europe and Asia," said study co-author Konrad Lohse, a population geneticist at the University of Edinburgh.

The first scenario is that Neanderthals occasionally interbred with modern humans after they migrated out of Africa. The alternative scenario is that the humans who left Africa evolved from the same ancestral subpopulation that had previously given rise to the Neanderthals.

Many researchers argue the interbreeding scenario is more likely, because it fits the genetic patterns seen in studies that compared genomes from many modern humans. But the new approach completely rules out the alternative scenario without requiring all the extra data, by using only the information from one genome each of several types: Neanderthal, European/Asian, African and chimpanzee.

The same method will be useful in other studies of interbreeding where limited samples are available. "Because the method makes maximum use of the information contained in individual genomes, it is particularly exciting for revealing the history of species that are rare or extinct," said Lohse. In fact, the authors originally developed the method while studying the history of insect populations in Europe and island species of pigs in South East Asia, some of which are extremely rare.

Lohse cautions against reading too much into the fact that the new method estimates a slightly higher genetic contribution of Neanderthals to modern humans than previous studies. Estimating this contribution is complex and is likely to vary slightly between different approaches.

"This work is important because it closes a hole in the argument about whether Neanderthals interbred with humans. And the method can be applied to understanding the evolutionary history of other organisms, including endangered species," said Mark Johnston, Editor-in-Chief of the journal Genetics.


2 Neanderthals  Empty Re: Neanderthals Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:56 am



The following is what we actually know about the Neanderthal:

• Neanderthal DNA was roughly halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee. That eliminates any possibility of humans being descended from Neanderthals via any process resembling evolution.
• His skull was a very good match for an ape's profile, and a bad match for one of ours. 
• No Neanderthal needles (Cro Magnon needles are common); a creature with a 6" ice-age fur coat simply doesn't require needles...
• Footprints more apelike than human.
• Rib cages were conical as are those of primates (to make room for the gigantic upper body musculature); our rib cages are cylindrical.
• Eye sockets and nasal areas much larger than ours. 
• Placement of noses and eyes on faces much different (higher) than for humans.
• We know that the mindset of the Neanderthal was similar to that of an African lion. He viewed the living world as neatly divided into two categories: his own family group and meat. Even other Neanderthal families were on the menu, and they find the remains of Neanderthal groups with clear butchering marks made by flint knives.
• We know (Rob Gargett) that if you put the skulls of a human, a Neanderthal, and lion together, the two which have much of anything in common are the Neanderthal and the lion.
• We know that Neanderthal population dynamics were similar to those of other predators, and that there were never more than around 10,000 – 15,000 Neanderthals alive on the planet at any one time.
• We know that the Neanderthal could adapt to an omnivorous diet when it was available but that, in the setting of the European ice age, he was for all intents and purposes a pure carnivore.
• We know that Neanderthals were not giants... a tall one might go 5-10 or 6'. But a male Neanderthal could easily have stood 5-9 and weighed 300 pounds with no extra weight on him.

Every bit of that corresponds quite well to Danny Vendramini's reconstructions.

There is a claim that, because some humans may have a certain small number of genes in common with Neanderthals, that humans and Neanderthals must have interbred. That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to bear a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and have him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching on, i.e. the claim is ridiculous.
In real life:
• Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner left her alone for ten minutes. 
• The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
• Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
• And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be exceedingly obvious.

The Neanderthal died out in a wave going from East to West as he encountered Cro Magnon humans with the last Neanderthal stand in Europe being in Southern Spain. There is just no way that humans who were conducting such a total genocide war would have tolerated half-breeds in their own midst. That is, even assuming that such cross-breeding was possible.


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