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Defending the Christian Worldview, Creationism, and Intelligent Design

This is my personal virtual library, where i collect information, which leads in my view to the Christian faith, creationism, and Intelligent Design as the best explanation of the origin of the physical Universe, life, and biodiversity


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Defending the Christian Worldview, Creationism, and Intelligent Design » Palaentology » Carbon-14-dated dinosaur bones, non permineralized fossils, and soft tissue like proteins are evidence for young fossils

Carbon-14-dated dinosaur bones, non permineralized fossils, and soft tissue like proteins are evidence for young fossils

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Otangelo


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The Axel Heiberg Absurdities

https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2014/05/10/the-axel-heiberg-absurdities/

Apparently, the 40 or 50 [depending upon source] million year old mummified wood found on Axel Heiberg Island still “contains all its organic matter”, “can still be burned” and is “so well preserved that it is difficult to distinguish from present-day samples”.

The eastern part is hilly, with local plains.
It was on this side of the island that large tree stumps were discovered in 1985.

The stumps have since been dated at 40 million years old, evidence that the Far North was at that time much warmer and wetter.

This “Fossil Forest” is not petrified but contains all its organic matter, making it a unique glimpse into an ancient ecosystem.

The stumps, logs, seeds, cones and leaves are in some cases so well preserved that it is difficult to distinguish them from present-day samples.


Axel Heiberg Island
The Canadian Encyclopedia
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/axel-heiberg-island/

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Otangelo


Admin
https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Earths_Age.pdf?token=AWwcjW7ig8MHZ-YnKSEx93vpVAMPmvvkzh5TaDKXvcGQqDA5gSeiBPoMtR-p3rVDGdPQk8ackTbKjH6lZ1OfTmMmvHz0-IHReKjFVgMq7WQGt8mIsZltlBcS1tT3G56tCrlutSA2QvfdH2S4GaOa52G8

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Otangelo


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Exceptional Fossil Preservation and the Cambrian Explosion
Bedding plane specimen of Leanchoilia superlata from the middle Cambrian Burgess Shale (Butterfield, 2002) showing characteristic flattening of degradation-resistant cuticle (original organic-carbon preservation)
https://academic.oup.com/icb/article/43/1/166/604533/Exceptional-Fossil-Preservation-and-the-Cambrian

Evidence of preserved collagen in an Early Jurassic sauropodomorph dinosaur revealed by synchrotron FTIR microspectroscopy
We report the presence of ancient collagen and protein remains preserved in a 195 million-year-old fossil, as demonstrated through in situ SR-FTIR microspectroscopy of the Early Jurassic sauropodomorph dinosaur Lufengosaurus.
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14220

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Otangelo


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New insights of a plesiosaurian with soft tissue preservation from the Toarcian of Holzmaden, Germany 1

http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/t1767p50-carbon-14-dated-dinosaur-bones-non-permineralized-fossils-and-soft-tissue-like-proteins-are-evidence-for-young-fossils#5478

The postcranial skeleton preserves very likely soft tissues composed of buff-coloured and dark-coloured structures around the vertebral column and hindlimb of the animal. A network of buffcoloured fibres located posterior to the hindlimb most likely represents phosphatised collagen fibres as already found in some ichthyosaur specimens, confirming that wing area in plesiosaurians was much larger than that suggested by skeletal remains alone. Because the occurrence of potential soft tissue is exceptional in plesiosaurians, it was decided to avoid destructive analysis that may have helped to establish their chemical or ultrastructural composition. Nevertheless, there is a striking resemblance between the dark- and buff-coloured materials surrounding the neck, tail and hindlimb of SMNS 51945 and the soft tissues documented in several ichthyosaur and cephalopod specimens from the same strata (Keller 1992), as well as Sinemurian and Callovian-Oxfordian ichthyosaurs from the UK and Cretaceous fish from Brazil (Martill 1995). In all these fossils, the buff-coloured material was interpreted as phosphatised muscle tissue.

Carbon-14-dated dinosaur bones, non permineralized fossils, and soft tissue like proteins are evidence for young fossils - Page 3 Plesio10

1. http://rd.springer.com.secure.sci-hub.cc/article/10.1007/s00114-017-1472-6

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Otangelo


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Conclusion: The Dinosaur Bones Are Young


So the young C14 dates can’t be due to radiation. They can’t be due to contamination. They also can’t be the result of differing atmospheric conditions. It must be then that these bones are really young.
However, this conclusion is not likely to be accepted by the scientific community. There is tremendous inertia in science. Those who propose radical changes risk damage to their careers and ridicule. Evolution needs long ages, so the scientists have to defend long ages or else give up evolution, which they do not want to do or are afraid to do. They say that organic matter in the fossils has to be old because evolution requires it and we know that evolution is true. This is an argument that is used to justify the old dates.

http://www.tasc-creationscience.org/article/carbon-14-dating-fossils

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Otangelo


Admin
Dinosaur mummy yields its secrets 1.

A remarkably well-preserved fossil of a dinosaur has been analysed by scientists writing in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society B.
They describe how the fossil's soft tissues were spared from decay by fine sediments that formed a mineral cast.
Tests have shown that the fossil still holds cell-like structures - but their constituent proteins have decayed.
The team says the cellular structure of the dinosaur's skin was similar to that of dinosaurs' modern-day descendants.
A member of the duck-billed hadrosaur family, the fossil was found in North Dakota in the US and has been nicknamed "Dakota".
Phil Manning of the University of Manchester and his collaborators have been employing a number of techniques to tease out as much information as they can from the fossil.

1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8124098.stm

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Otangelo


Admin
Can soft tissue in fossils remain 500mio years preserved? 

Exceptional Fossil Preservation and the Cambrian Explosion
01 February 2003
Bedding plane specimen of Leanchoilia superlata from the middle Cambrian Burgess Shale (Butterfield, 2002) showing characteristic flattening of degradation-resistant cuticle (original organic-carbon preservation)
https://academic.oup.com/icb/article/43/1/166/604533/Exceptional-Fossil-Preservation-and-the-Cambrian

That is in contrast with following paper:

Biomolecules in fossil remains
June 2002
Proteins may afford us the opportunity to recover genetic information from warmer environments, where attempts to recover ancient DNA are less sure of sucess2,7. In more temperate burial environments, osteocalcin has a predicted survival limit of 580 thousand years at 20C and 7,5 million years at 10C .
http://www.biochemist.org/bio/02403/0012/024030012.pdf

Carbon-14-dated dinosaur bones, non permineralized fossils, and soft tissue like proteins are evidence for young fossils - Page 3 22382211

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Otangelo


Admin
03:50
SHE AND HER TEAM RAN MORE CHEMICAL TESTS ON THAT TISSUE
AND CAME UP WITH A HINT OF JOY JURASSIC PARK, A TRACE OF
POSSIBLE DINOSAUR DNA.
>> WE WERE ABLE TO SHOW THAT THERE'S SOMETHING INSIDE THOSE
CELLS THAT'S CHEMICALLY CONSISTENT WITH DNA.
IT REACTS TO DNA STAINS, AND IT REACTS TO ANTI-DNA ANTIBODIES
THE SAME WAY MODERN CELLS DO, ONLY GREATLY REDUCED IN ABUNDANCE.
>> IS IT DNA?
>> DON'T KNOW.
AND, YOU KNOW -- >> CAN YOU FIND OUT IF IT WAS
DNA?
>> YEAH.
EVEN IF IT IS DNA, THOUGH, IF YOU CAN'T SEQUENCE IT, IT REALLY
DOESN'T HAVE MUCH VALUE.
>> THAT'S BECAUSE YOU WOULD NEED ALL THE DNA CHROMOSOMES TO CLONE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3UNeqpG8GU

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Otangelo


Admin
Another type of original organic material that wasn't supposed to be there is discovered; fossilized gum!

Unlike amber, gum is water soluble and should have leached out of these fossil leaves. Yet here it is "110 million years old" (If you can believe that) Surprise and astonishment follows these discoveries which on the surface have the potential to upend the paradigm of millions of years for these fossils. A picture of a living species of this type of plant living in the desert of Namibia in Africa.

Quotes from the article: Emily said: "This new discovery overturns the basic assumption that plant gums cannot be preserved in the fossil record. It has opened our eyes to the fact that other plant chemicals may also be preserved—we can no longer just make assumptions. When we first tested the gum I was astonished that we were confirming something that was thought to be impossible—it just goes to show that fossil plants can surprise us."

Researchers suggest there is still much to learn and that future work should focus on how this preserved gum has survived 110 million years.

https://phys.org/news/2020-02-gum-scientists-million-year-old-treasure.html?fbclid=IwAR22YF3K4rgA5u1aCVdOitqYljuxcdQPThLOHnL5iDUt13pQqU_U0DOsOtI

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Otangelo


Admin
"Molecular analyses of dinosaur osteocytes support the presence of endogenous molecules.
Schweitzer MH1, Zheng W, Cleland TP, Bern M.

Abstract
The discovery of soft, transparent microstructures in dinosaur bone consistent in morphology with osteocytes was controversial.

We hypothesize that, if original, these microstructures will have molecular features in common with extant osteocytes.
We present immunological and mass spectrometry evidence for preservation of proteins comprising extant osteocytes (Actin, Tubulin, PHEX, Histone H4) in osteocytes recovered from two non-avian dinosaurs.

Furthermore, antibodies to DNA show localized binding to these microstructures, which also react positively with DNA intercalating stains propidium iodide (PI) and 4',6'-diamidino-2-phenylindole dihydrochloride (DAPI).

Each antibody binds dinosaur cells in patterns similar to extant cells.
These data are the first to support preservation of multiple proteins and to present multiple lines of evidence for material consistent with DNA in dinosaurs, supporting the hypothesis that these structures were part of the once living animals.

We propose mechanisms for preservation of cells and component molecules, and discuss implications for dinosaurian cellular biology."
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23085295

"Many dinosaur fossils include real bone—they are not completely mineralized, i.e. are not yet ‘rock’.
And what is found inside those dinosaur bones is a huge surprise to many people.
*A series of discoveries since the early 1990s has revealed dino bones with blood cells, hemoglobin, fragile proteins, and soft tissue such as flexible ligaments and blood vessels. And of special note: DNA and radiocarbon. ..

...But so entrenched is the evolutionary paradigm in the scientific community, that it soon became known that Dr Schweitzer was having trouble getting her results published. “I had one reviewer tell me that he didn’t care what the data said, he knew that what I was finding wasn’t possible,” says Schweitzer.
“I wrote back and said, ‘Well, what data would convince you?’ And he said, ‘None.’”

Schweitzer recounts how she noticed that a T. rex skeleton (from Hell Creek, Montana) had a distinctly cadaverous odour. When she mentioned this to long-time paleontologist Jack Horner,2 he said, “Oh yeah, all Hell Creek bones smell.”

But so ingrained is the notion among paleontologists that dinosaur bones must be millions of years old that the *‘smell of death’ didn’t even register with them—despite the evidence being right under their noses.

3 Schweitzer herself does not seem able or willing to escape the long-age paradigm, despite her direct involvement in many of the discoveries.

Note the timeline of these findings across two decades—pointed and regular reminders that something is very wrong with dinosaur-millions-of-years ideas:.."

https://creation.com/double-decade-dinosaur-disquiet

Carbon-14-dated dinosaur bones, non permineralized fossils, and soft tissue like proteins are evidence for young fossils - Page 3 88056710

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Otangelo


Admin
"Mary Schweitzer became famous when she published evidence of soft tissue in dinosaur remains. Then she published a paper that claimed to have sequenced dino proteins and another that claimed evidence of dino DNA. This was from last month (how did I miss it?). From the conclusions: .....

"...our data suggest the preserved nuclear material in Hypacrosaurus was in a condensed state at the time of the death of the organism, which may have contributed to its stability. We propose that DNA condensation may be a favorable process to its fossilization. Additionally, as was suggested for protein fossilization [refs], crosslinking may be another mechanism involved in the preservation of DNA in deep time."

.....She may have just figured out how DNA can remain intact for 4,500 years, and we might have to be thanking her for this in the future. She also discusses the possibility of sequencing dino DNA, which is the most exciting thing I have heard in a long time."
- Dr.Robert Carter

https://academic.oup.com/…/…/doi/10.1093/nsr/nwz206/5762999…

**************************
"Not the first time that she has found dino DNA that is in double-helical form, from fossils "dated" to 10 times what it would take for DNA to break down into its component nucleotides at -5°C."
Dr.Sarfati

https://creation.com/schweitzers-dangerous-discovery

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Otangelo


Admin
Cartilage cells, chromosomes and DNA preserved in 75 million-year-old baby duck-billed dinosaur

https://phys.org/news/2020-02-cartilage-cells-chromosomes-dna-million-year-old.html?fbclid=IwAR0wABnKi7wAye_FmAEattpTobUAqjw1Jc98s5UcNiTldB73oFTch2o_GfQ

This study is lead by Dr. Alida Bailleul (Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology, the Chinese Academy of Sciences) and Dr. Mary Schweitzer (North Carolina State University, NC Museum of Natural Sciences, Lund University and Museum of the Rockies). Microscopic analyses of skull fragments from these nestling dinosaurs were conducted by Alida Bailleul at the Museum of the Rockies. In one fragment she noticed some exquisitely preserved cells within preserved calcified cartilage tissues on the edges of a bone. Two cartilage cells were still linked together by an intercellular bridge, morphologically consistent with the end of cell division (see left image below). Internally, dark material resembling a cell nucleus was also visible. One cartilage cell preserved dark elongated structures morphologically consistent with chromosomes (center image below). "I couldn't believe it, my heart almost stopped beating," Bailleul says.

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Otangelo


Admin
Premise 1. DNA has a half life of 521 years.
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d…/10.1098/rspb.2012.1745

Premise 2. DNA would last about 6.8 million years, after which all the bonds would be broken and nothing would be left.
https://www.the-scientist.com/…/half-life-of-dna-revealed-4…

Premise 3. DNA has been found in dinosaur bones estimated by Evolutionary models to be around 70 million years old. Ten times longer that DNA could possibly be preserved.
https://api.nationalgeographic.com/…/hints-of-dna-discovere…

https://www.scientificamerican.com/…/possible-dinosaur-dn…/…

Conclusions.

1. Dinosaurs did not live acording to the time scale suggested by Evolutionists

2. The time allotted of 6.8 million years for DNA to disintegrate completely, is not enough to account for the Extinction of dinosaurs or the evolution of life after them as suggested the theory of Evolution.

3. Then the theory of Evolution is falsified by observation, and cannot be considered as an explanation of the origins of life as we know it.

4. This also falsifies geologic ideas of deep time, and calls all methods of subjectively "guessing" the timelines and dates of these finds, into question.

5. No other idea is available as to be compatible with the objective observations we do have, other than the literal account of Genesis 1. The six days of creation around 7000 years ago.

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Otangelo


Admin
Carbon-14-dated dinosaur bones, non permineralized fossils, and soft tissue like proteins are evidence for young fossils

Biomolecules in fossil remains June 2002
Proteins may afford us the opportunity to recover genetic information from warmer environments, where attempts to recover ancient DNA are less sure of sucess. In more temperate burial environments, osteocalcin has a predicted survival limit of 580 thousand years at 20C and 7,5 million years at 10C .


Mary Schweitzer is featured at Christianity Today as one of 6 Christian women scientists worthy of special notice. She did stir up controversy when she started to discover original organic molecules in dinosaurs. This discovery has been repeated many many times now but I just wanted to share one thing that came out in CT's article page 50. (March 2020 issue) She noticed the bones SMELLED ODD, LIKE A CAMPUS CADAVER LAB. Imagine that!! She could smell the organic material rotting right in front of her. Volatile organics like that should be short-lived indeed. But to smell T-REX bones rotting....well that is something I didn't pick up before in any article. How old can something be and still SMELL it rotting? Something to think about.

Evidence of proteins, chromosomes and chemical markers of DNA in exceptionally preserved dinosaur cartilage 12 January 2020
A histological ground-section from a duck-billed dinosaur nestling (Hypacrosaurus stebingeri) revealed microstructures morphologically consistent with nuclei and chromosomes in cells within calcified cartilage. We hypothesized that this exceptional cellular preservation extended to the molecular level and had molecular features in common with extant avian cartilage. Histochemical and immunological evidence supports in situ preservation of extracellular matrix components found in extant cartilage, including glycosaminoglycans and collagen type II. Furthermore, isolated Hypacrosaurus chondrocytes react positively with two DNA intercalating stains. Specific DNA staining is only observed inside the isolated cells, suggesting endogenous nuclear material survived fossilization.

Soft tissue cannot remain non-permineralized for  millions of years. That adds to the C14 carbon dating evidence. The best explanation is in my view that the fossils are younger than thought for a long time.

In 2011, UK archaeologists and experts on bone collagen decay wrote that “it will take between 0.2 and 0.7 Ma [million years] at 10°C for levels of collagen to fall to 1% in an optimal burial environment.”

Collagen survival and its use for species identification in Holocene-lower Pleistocene bone fragments from British archaeological and paleontological sites
We have previously reported a technique using the dominant structural protein collagen (type I) as a source of genetic information for species identification in modern and relatively young (Holocene) archaeological samples. We report a systematic investigation of amino acid composition and collagen peptide mass fingerprints (PMF), for a range of samples dating back approximately 1.5 million years. Extrapolation from high temperature experimental decomposition rates predict that at a constant 10°C (the approximate mean annual air temperature in Britain today) it will take between 0.2 and 0.7 Ma for levels of collagen to fall to 1% of their original concentration in an optimal burial environment. Even when the glacial intervals of the British Quaternary are factored into the temperature calculations, the more conservative of these two estimates extends the range for collagen sequencing to the Lower Pleistocene as confirmed by the presence of collagen peptides in bones from the Weybourne Crag (~1.5 Ma).

So, collagen could last 450,000 or so years on average. If kept below freezing, it might be imagined to last one or two million years at the very most. But evolutionary biologists agree that dinosaurs lived in a very warm climate, so in their scenario, this would vastly shrink the times—at 20°C, collagen would have decomposed below the detection limit in about 15,000 years

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Otangelo


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Why Are Amino Acids Still Found in Fossils?
http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/amino/survive.htm

NON-AVIAN DINOSAUR EGGSHELL CALCITE CONTAINS ANCIENT, ENDOGENOUS AMINO ACIDS
RP-HPLC shows that amino acids are present within the titanosaur eggshell calcite.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.02.129999v1.full

Reconstructed Precambrian ancient proteins exhibit elevated thermostability
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5010474/

Move over, DNA: ancient proteins are starting to reveal humanity’s history
Proteins dating back more than one million years have been extracted from some fossils, and could help to answer some difficult questions about archaic humans. Previously, scientists had recovered proteins from 1.8-million-year-old animal teeth and a 3.8-million-year-old eggshell.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01986-x

Fibres and cellular structures preserved in 75-million–year-old dinosaur specimens
We identify amino-acid fragments typical of collagen fibrils. Using mass spectrometry, we found peaks that are consistent with fragments of amino acids present in collagen.
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms8352

Ancient amino acids from fossil feathers in amber
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-42938-9
Fossil inclusions in amber are characterized by exceptional morphological preservation of soft tissues, which suggests the possibility of similarly exceptional protein preservation; this is supported by two previous investigations of fossils in amber based on levels of amino acid racemization. Liquid chromatography analysis of insects in resin, copal, and amber samples, ranging in age from 100 years old to 130 million years old, reported ancient amino acids with very low levels of racemization.

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