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Why does God allow evil and suffering in the world?

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Why does God allow evil and suffering in the world?

http://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t1915-why-does-god-allow-evil-and-suffering-in-the-world

Argument from evil:

1. If God exists, then there is no pointless suffering.
2. There is probably some pointless suffering. Therefore,
3. God probably does not exist.

1. God is omnipotent, omniscient, holy and good)
2. There is evil and unspeakable horrors displayed in the world
3. This is logically incompatible

1. God, is said to be omniscient, omnipotent, perfect and good.
2. If God is omniscient, he would have known in what world children would be born with physical deficiencies.
3. He would have known, and if completely good, avoided to create a world where children are born with physical deficiencies
4. Therefore, a perfect and good God probably doesn’t exist.

Darwin worried himself silly about the suffering brought on by the struggle for existence:
“I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent & omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidæ with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of caterpillars, or that a cat should play with mice” (Darwin 1985–, 8: 224).

Response:
The universe produced the number of electrons equivalent to the number of protons to an accuracy of one part in 10 to the 37th power. If it were not so, galaxies, stars, and planets would never form. That is as if cover America with coins in a column reaching to the moon (380,000 km or 236,000 miles away), then do the same for a billion other continents of the same size. Paint one coin red and put it somewhere in one billion of the piles. Blindfold a friend and ask her to pick the coin. The odds of her picking it are 1 in 10^37

Here the atheist responds, “Yes, these things may be improbable, but I’m going to believe them anyway.” This is a clear inconsistency. He does not believe that God exists because of evil, but does also not believe in God DESPITE the odds which favour the belief that God was rather involved in creating the universe and life, rather than not. But above example of the proton/electron fine-tuning is just an example. I can list twenty different arguments, based on ontology, cosmology, teleology, philosophical and theological. He would have to dismiss the weight of all these in favour of just one, which apparently favours a worldview without God.

So even if the believer in God has not a full understanding of why God created a world where there is suffering, but there can well be an acceptable explanation once the full picture is exposed. If God created the universe and life, then, upon what we do know, we can infer that God’s intelligence and mental power are unimaginably higher than ours, and that gives us good reasons to believe, that there is a bigger picture which we do not understand, but when we do, we will grant that Gods goodness is fully compatible with the broken world we live in. On the other hand, believing that the universe and life coming into existence by a freaky unlikely accident which is in the realm of the impossible, despite the extreme odds, is logical and rational?

Furthermore, there are some good reasons why God permits suffering in the world. Making love possible, means giving us free will, and the ability to make free choices. That entails the possibility to choose evil and to make bad choices. Freedom is wonderful, but it can be misused. God was willing to create free creatures, knowing the risks, but did go forward nonetheless. God can also permit pain and difficult times in peoples life that as outcome permit people to grow spiritually, or as human beings. Again: We have not a full understanding of why God chose to go forward, rather than not.

God is a being than which none greater can be imagined (that is, the greatest possible being that can be imagined). There is a close connection between rationality and goodness: the most perfect being will always act according to the maximum of goodness which is characteristic of him. This necessarily also implies that God will create the best of all possible worlds because otherwise, he would either not be almighty, or not be absolutely good, or not be omniscient.

Gods goodness is expressed in his moral kingdom of grace. and it is the most exalted and the most divine of God’s works, and it is in this that God’s glory truly consists, since there would be no glory if his greatness and his goodness were not known and admired by minds. God’s glory has been thought to consist in his own perfect nature, and/or in his expression of that nature. But there is more to Gods glory than this; specifically, God’s glory also requires other beings to recognise his supreme qualities, since that if there were no such recognition then God would have no glory.

Hence it would be correct to say that God’s glory requires

(a) that God has a perfect nature,
(b) that he expresses that perfect nature, and
(c) that his perfect nature is recognised by other creatures.

Whilst God’s wisdom, intelligence and power are manifested in all parts of creation, his goodness is most apparent in his sense of justice, moral code, and plan of justification and grace expressed in Christs coming, death, and resurrection. If creation consisted merely in the amazing beauty and complexity of the universe and its mathematical structure, laws and fine-tuning, then God’s great wisdom and power would be evident, but not his goodness. In order to manifest his goodness, God created minds, rational and moral creatures upon which he can exercise justice, mercy, forgiveness, and so on.

When we deal with God, we deal with the highest being conceivable, also what regards goodness and justice. When we reject God and accuse him of immoral acts, as too often seen by atheists, they do judge from a human limited perspective, which is faulty and unreliable. Basically, they fool themselves. I cannot conceive greater foolishness than to reject God on such unreliable ground.

Is God a despot ? 
http://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t2812-despot-is-god-a-despot

Why does God allow evil and suffering in the world?
http://carm.org/why-does-god-allow-evil-and-suffering-world

Where is God When Bad Things Happen? Why Natural Evil Must Exist
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/natural_evil_theodicity.html

The Bible God: Cruel, Savage, Deranged, Evil, Barbaric, Intolerant, Insanely Jealous, Vengeful and Bloodthirsty?
http://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t1648-the-bible-god-cruel-savage-deranged-evil-barbaric-intolerant-insanely-jealous-vengeful-and-bloodthirsty

Building a theistic Worldview: first principles and first truths - Dealing with the issue of good and evil
http://nicenesystheol.blogspot.com/2010/11/unit-2-gospel-on-mars-hill-foundations.html#u2_gdvsevl

Is the God of the Old Testament different than the God of the new testament?
http://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t2784-is-the-god-of-the-old-testament-different-than-the-god-of-the-new-testament

The Myth that Religion is the #1 Cause of War
https://carm.org/religion-cause-war?fbclid=IwAR0Vk_M-dh4Chg8pOQCISVx0f-FLHfmM8szIl0Z8UwhMq6ifs1EbMVDiMXw

Argument from evil:

1. If God exists, then there is no pointless suffering.
2. There is probably some pointless suffering. Therefore,
3. God probably does not exist.

1. God is omnipotent, omniscient, holy and good)
2. There is evil and unspeakable horrors displayed in the world
3. This is logically incompatible

1. God, is said to be omniscient, omnipotent, perfect and good.
2. If God is omniscient, he would have known in what world children would be born with physical deficiencies.
3. He would have known, and if completely good, avoided to create a world where children are born with physical deficiencies
4. Therefore, a perfect and good God probably doesn’t exist.

Darwin worried himself silly about the suffering brought on by the struggle for existence:
“I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent & omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidæ with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of caterpillars, or that a cat should play with mice” (Darwin 1985–, 8: 224).

Response:
The universe produced the number of electrons equivalent to the number of protons to an accuracy of one part in 10 to the 37th power. If it were not so, galaxies, stars, and planets would never form. That is as if cover America with coins in a column reaching to the moon (380,000 km or 236,000 miles away), then do the same for a billion other continents of the same size.  Paint one coin red and put it somewhere in one billion of the piles.  Blindfold a friend and ask her to pick the coin.  The odds of her picking it are 1 in 10^37

Here the atheist responds, “Yes, these things may be improbable, but I’m going to believe them anyway.” This is a clear inconsistency. He does not believe that God exists because of evil, but does also not believe in God DESPITE the odds which favour the belief that God was rather involved in creating the universe and life, rather than not. But above example of the proton/electron fine-tuning is just an example. I can list twenty different arguments, based on ontology, cosmology, teleology, philosophical and theological. He would have to dismiss the weight of all these in favour of just one, which apparently favours a worldview without God.  

So even if the believer in God has not a full understanding of why God created a world where there is suffering, but there can well be an acceptable explanation once the full picture is exposed. If God created the universe and life, then, upon what we do know, we can infer that God’s intelligence and mental power are unimaginably higher than ours, and that gives us good reasons to believe, that there is a bigger picture which we do not understand, but when we do, we will grant that Gods goodness is fully compatible with the broken world we live in. On the other hand, believing that the universe and life coming into existence by a freaky unlikely accident which is in the realm of the impossible, despite the extreme odds, is logical and rational?

Furthermore, there are some good reasons why God permits suffering in the world. Making love possible, means giving us free will, and the ability to make free choices. That entails the possibility to choose evil and to make bad choices. Freedom is wonderful, but it can be misused. God was willing to create free creatures, knowing the risks, but did go forward nonetheless. God can also permit pain and difficult times in peoples life that as outcome permit people to grow spiritually, or as human beings. Again: We have not a full understanding of why God chose to go forward, rather than not.   

 
God, being maximally great, must have omniscience.
Omniscience demands objective perspective because subjectivity is a result of partial knowledge and understanding.
Objective omniscience means that God will be able to discern what is good at all times in all possible scenarios. It doesn’t just allow for it, it logically demands it.
Humans with free will run the world. Free will is a necessary good because it is the only thing from which personhood can be made. So the real problem is mankind, not God, and what we do with our free will.

Every good parent takes risks in allowing their kids the freedom to learn and do new things. Your child will sometime fall when learning to walk and will face even greater risks as he grows and learns. God tells what is good and how to live, but we choose whether to do good or evil. God commands us to not do evil but he doesn't put us in restraints so that we can't do evil. He did give government to punish evil and cause evil people to constrain themselves. Ultimately God created us to be in a loving relationship, but all love is voluntary. It has to be so. To be able to choose love we also have to have the ability to choose to hate.

You're attempting to make a moral judgment against God as if permitting evil were "wrong". Where, as an atheist, could you ever obtain any standard by which you could declare any action to be morally wrong whether that action were performed by God or by man? In your world there's only the material realm and, according to atheism, the Universe is merely an accidentally produced petri dish containing organic and inorganic entities while lacking any moral law or ultimate purpose. If you're view is factually accurate, then disease, catastrophies, permitting any kind of suffering or evil might be a temporarily unpleasant experience for certain valueless organic units, but nothing, including the infliction of diseases upon innocent babies, could ever really be objectively, morally wrong. This is just one of the many grounding problems with atheism. It leaves you with no basis or standard that you can appeal to by which anything or any action can ever be condemned as wrong or evil. So if you really believe what you say you believe, why the whining outrage over diseases? You should be celebrating the brutality of bare nature. It's just the material, undesigned Universe, randomly thinning the herd, remember? Or did you forget? It sounds like you believe in God, but you just don't like Him.

You as a finite being consider yourself worthy to criticize God. The arrogance of such is monumental. Do you realize that? You with limited understanding AND perspective have considered yourself more than the equal of God your creator? Able to judge His actions and motives and the benefit they bring? Are you serious? Do you know how to create a simple cell? Do you know how to create life? Do you have the power to do EITHER? Do you know how to create a planet that supports life? Do you know how to create a climate and environment on such a planet? Do you know how to create a storm and have the power to make it rain? Do you have the power to make the seasons follow from summer, to fall....to winter..to spring? Do you know how to imprint animals with the instinct to reproduce and to take action to protect themselves from predators? Have you in your wisdom come up with the perfect system for justice among humans and consider yourself as an authority on what is BEST for all? Do you know the inner workings of the mind...and the heart and are able to act for the benefit of both in every endeavor? Do you know what your purpose is? Do you know why you have been given the days you have been? Assuming you have a wife...do you know always how to love her and treat her as you should? Do you do so? Assuming you have kids...did you know every moment exactly what was best and did it in raising them? Did you love them for their best..for their total success? Or were you wishing for an instruction manual to answer the awesome responsibility of child rearing? If on a single thing I have mentioned you have to answer honestly...I...don't ...know. Then you are incompetent to criticize God. The fact you do not understand...should encourage humility...not judgement. It should encourage asking for wisdom from God. His answer to you? Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction. And again: Proverbs 3:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.. God's advice to you? Proverbs 2:6-7 6 Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you. 7 The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom. Though it cost all you have, get understanding. Ponder this: 1st Cor 1:25: 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. And finally..are you on your own in the gaining of WISDOM? No. James 1:5 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. Just as Salvation for each person is present for the asking...so is the WISDOM to approach life rightly.

The Creator as being the Owner of the universe is the "Standard Setter" for all good in the universe. Saying God is good, therefore, is like saying God is God when good is defined/identified as being consistent with the Will and Nature of such Creator and Owner of the universe.

There are clearly many horrendous events which happen in the Old Testament... the question is, "does one understand these things in context?" "and does one understand these things in relation to the sinfulness and state of humankind's position before the Creator?"

This is the real key. If you don't understand humankind as being under judgment then you would never understand how God is fully justified by killing us all at any moment...and how this would NEVER be murder in any shape or form.

Understanding these things systematically are key. If you understand that God can order the annihilation of any group of people and have it be part of His logical and just judgment then you might also understand how when through the natural order (tsunamis, etc) that God is fully justified at sustaining such natural laws and their consequences as well.

Putting slavery in its proper context is equally important. Understanding what appears to be rape in its context is also important to fully explain. Understanding a solder discussing the end of a battle and what method the solder's used to kill the babies of their enemies (and how this signified the end of the battle and their descendents would not rise up against them in battle again) is also important to put these things in context.

Sparing virgins so that they could be married was seen as a type of mercy from one point of view, but in today's society we would never think this way because we do not live in the brutal culture that existed over seven centuries before Christ.

You have to understand things in context. Child sacrifice was never condoned, yet those who read an English bible wrongfully think that was.

All of these many difficulties place the OT in poor light but they still need to be understood within the context of their culture and within the context of their setting or their Sitz im Leben.

Atheists attempt to show how the Hebrew God is evil and the other side is trying to show that the Hebrew God doesn't approve of a lot that is recorded... and what this Hebrew God "does" is fully justified because humankind is judged already and God is the Holy Perfect God and humans are the real little monsters.

Ultimately, these quest is related to theodicy....as they logically should.

the Creator is fully justified in having this world inhabited by "little monsters" who need to be adopted and changed into holy children who can fellowship with this Creator.


Cancer supports the idea of Intelligent Design. why? gene regulation systems is so fine-tuned in the human body that it works normally. yet if these regulation systems and genes are interrupted, cells go abnormal activities. let's say for example proto-oncogenes code for proteins that stimulate normal cell growth. if it gets mutated, it will lead to cancer due to increase in its protein [product or intrinsic protein activity. also, tumor suppressor genes code for proteins that prevent uncontrolled cell growth. if it's mutated and causes it to decrease its product protein's activity, it will lead to cancer. That's how functional and are, fine-tuned. And that supports Intelligent Design. In a Biblical point of view, before the fall, there's no such thing as 'error', therefore there are no mutations. mutations accumulated after the fall, due to sin. this also somehow goes against large-scale mutational evolution, as mutations cause more harm than good.



The curious as well as the critics of Christianity ask this question. If God is all-powerful and all loving, then why does He permit evil and suffering in the world? Various answers have been given, but permanently settling the issue is impossible because so many of our answers raise further questions. Nevertheless, our lack of ability to answer the question perfectly does not mean that we cannot offer solutions. Of course, I do not assume to be able to answer these questions definitively, but I can offer some solutions.

First of all, it is possible that God has reasons for allowing evil to exist that we simply cannot understand. In this the Christian can have confidence in God knowing that His ways are above our ways (Isaiah 55:8-9). As the Bible says, the just shall live by faith (Hab. 2:4).


Second, God may be letting evil run its course in order to prove that evil is malignant and that suffering, which is the unfortunate product of evil, is further proof that anything contrary to God’s will is bad, harmful, painful, and leads to death.

God gave Adam dominion over the world (Gen. 1:28). When he rebelled against God, he set in motion an entire series of events and changed the very nature of man and creation. Both were affected by sin. Creation was no longer a paradise but bore thorns and thistles (Gen. 3:17-18; Rom. 8:22). People became sinful (Rom. 5:12; Eph. 2:3), who were haters of God (Rom. 3:9-12), etc. The only conclusion to such a situation is death. Jesus said, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened" (Matt. 24:22).

Sin is rebellion against God and His created order, but God has not left us alone in this fallen world. He continued to enter this world--pointing us to Himself, to truth, to morality, purity, and love. He used the evil of the world (liars, perjurers, the envious, etc.,) to bring His Son to the cross so that we might have the opportunity to obtain eternal life. In this, God has not stepped away from fallen creation but has stepped into it by becoming Jesus. God works within the fallen world to effect change, and He uses fallen people to accomplish His will. In this, He is proving His sovereignty over evil, suffering, and rebellious people--proving that sin and evil are utterly futile and that He is worthy of honor and glory.

A third possible reason that God is letting evil occur is so that on the day of judgment, the condemned will have no right to say that their sentence is unjust. God is not stopping people from exercising their free will. Think about this: If someone said that God should stop evil and suffering, then should God then stop all evil and suffering? If God only stopped some of it, then we would still be asking the same question of why it exists.

So, if we want God to stop evil and suffering, then He must stop all of it. We have no problem with this when it means stopping a catastrophe or a murder or a rape. But what about when someone thinks of something evil? Evil is destructive whether it is acted out or not. Hatred and bigotry in someone’s heart is wrong. If it is wrong and if God is to stop all evil, then He must stop that person from thinking his own thoughts. To do that, God must remove his freedom of thought. Furthermore, which person on the earth has not thought something evil? God would be required, then, to stop all people from exercising their free will. This is something God has chosen not to do. Therefore, we could say that one of the reasons that God permits evil and suffering is that of man’s free will.

Fourth, it is quite possible that God uses the suffering to do good. In other words, He produces patience through tribulation (Rom. 5:3). Or He may desire to save someone through it. Take for example, the account of Joseph who was sold into slavery by His brothers. What they did was wrong, and Joseph suffered greatly for it. But, later, God raised up Joseph in Egypt to make provisions for the people of that land during the coming drought of seven years. Not only was Egypt saved but also his family and brothers who originally sold him into slavery. Joseph finally says to them, "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good" (Gen. 50:15-21). Of course, the greatest example of God using evil for good is the death of Christ. Evil people brought him to the cross, but God used that cross as the means to save the world.

But then we must ask, if this is true, are we working against God by working against evil and suffering? No, we are not. God says he does not want us to sin and suffer. But it is simply true that God can use evil despite its apparent despicable nature.

God is in the world using the world and its failures for His glory and the benefit of those who listen to Him.

But then, what about those who seem to suffer innocently with no benefit resulting? What about the woman who is raped or the innocent bystander who is killed by a stray bullet. In both cases, the victims and families suffer nothing but pain and loss. What good can this possibly be?

I think that the answer is two-fold. One, ultimately, no one is innocent. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23) and are by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:3). There is none innocent. Though this is biblically accurate, it does not satisfy the question emotionally. Why do little babies suffer for things they have not done? I must acknowledge that I do not know. Ultimately, we must trust God who knows the beginning from the end and sees the grand picture. He will have the final word, and He will be vindicated.
Conclusion

Suffering is the result of human sin. The world is not the way that God created it; and because of that, all are vulnerable to the effects of sin in the world. Why does one person suffer and another does not? Why do catastrophes happen to some and not to others? It is because sin is in the world. But there will come a day when the Lord will return and cleanse this world of all sin and all suffering.

   "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Rev. 21:4).

I don't know why there is disequality on earth. Why I was born and raised in Switzerland, and others in Somalia. Why I had parents that took well care of me, while others are abandoned as newborns on the street. Why others don't even make it see the light of this world but are aborted, and their right to live taken by their parents. I don't know why I was born in the 20th century, while others in the 13th century, and died of the pest. I am fortunate that I did not be born in a place like the Caribbean, where people lost these days everything money can buy, or even their lives. Or in Hiroshima when the u.s. dropped their Atom bombs.  Why I have had access to medicine during all my life, while others didn't. I was born in a western world, without persecution to Christians. If I were born in North Korea, from Christian parents, most probably I would spend all my life in a prison camp with suffering and little food and easy death.

 In the lottery of life, I can consider myself a pretty fortunate fellow, when compared to many others. if I were born in u.s. in an Indian tribe before the white man came and brought the Gospel, I would probably worship manitu, and never know the God of the bible.   I could have been born in Afghanistan by fundamentalist Muslim parents, and be raised and indoctrinated in a Madrass into the Islamic faith. One of Jeffrey Dahmer's victims could maybe have converted in a later lifetime, and go to heaven, but is in hell, because his life was taken by Dahmer. But Dahmer, after committing many murders, converted shortly before he himself was murdered, and is now in heaven. How to explain? Is it just? Why is the chance to have a happy and successful life, or find the God of the Bible and access to know the gospel and salvation through Christ on earth not equal?

Some religions offer an explanation: In spiritism and eastern religions, it's by reincarnation. Upon their explanation, we pay for sins committed in previous lifes. There are questions which eventually one or the other can try and give a guessed answer. Truth is, I don't know why it is so. And I think nobody knows. And I have to live with that.

Isajah 45 cites the sovereign God :

9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! {Let} the potsherd {strive} with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Theodicy is the most difficult issue to deal with. But I trust that God knows what he is doing, and he is just. I humble myself to recognize the fact, that I do not know and understand the big picture. God does. And I trust that all HE does is just - amen.

Why does God allow evil and suffering in the world?
http://carm.org/why-does-god-allow-evil-and-suffering-world

Where is God When Bad Things Happen? Why Natural Evil Must Exist
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/natural_evil_theodicity.html

The Bible God: Cruel, Savage, Deranged, Evil, Barbaric, Intolerant, Insanely Jealous, Vengeful and Bloodthirsty?
http://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t1648-the-bible-god-cruel-savage-deranged-evil-barbaric-intolerant-insanely-jealous-vengeful-and-bloodthirsty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzL8R5sIXuY&fbclid=IwAR3-RZVKE-iCembl0V7iGIFJTGsjJFpUwHL6Rlly8al40eHEyDQv7BW_2qE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pso2FLvY_WQ&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR34jzbfoyWaPjxkxz2utwBlCoMG6q7FMMJtK9JnravAuEJSV6kYtLvem-Q


The Problem of Evil has an “Evil” Problem
http://michaelminkoff.com/god-evil-problem-evil-problem-evil/?fbclid=IwAR0egNZ0OurgbZR_fREyh4QBlEtoBIMyy7zwjIevGIgzXtiTRqEMy5oBts8



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2Why does God allow evil and suffering in the world? Empty On the Problem of Evil & Suffering on Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:43 pm

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Why would an atheist care if God killed and tortured babies? That is not a true account of the Biblical view of the Christian God. God did wipe out entire pagan nations that practiced idolatry, ;human sacrifice (irrelevant to Jesus Christ who knew God would raise Him from the dead as our propitiation), sexual perversions, etc.. Yes, the children of pagan cultures tend to grow up to practice what they are taught by pagan parents. God has creator rights to do as He pleases with His creation and creatures. If there is no God, it is irrational for atheists to hold to morality except as a selfish reason to gain something for self. It is the religion of existentialism and Secular Humanism. From the atheist view, mankind is but matter in motion controlled by the mechanistic laws of chemistry, physics, and electrical impulses. How do you even know that one brain state logically follows another? Why not kill other humans, after all, isn't that Darwin's 'survival of the fittest'? That would leave more available resources for the atheist.

On the Problem of Evil & Suffering 1

Atheists often argue against the existence of God, and specifically an almighty and good God on the basis of the existence of evil and suffering in the universe.   The argument goes something like this:
God is all-powerful, loving, and perfect.
A perfect, good God would create a universe that was perfect (e.g., no evil and suffering).
The universe is not perfect but contains evil and suffering.
Therefore, God does not exist.
So in short, either God is not good, or not all-powerful or he does not exist, because if he did exist then surely he could stop all the suffering. The atheist then concludes that both the idea of a bad God and idea of a limited God makes no sense, therefore God must not exist. Variations on this ages old theme exist but that is the gist of it.
So how does one answer this type of objection?
Most apologists go into lengthy arguments concerning why a good and almighty God could and does allow evil & suffering in the world.  They will usually get into the biblical fall of Lucifer and of man to explain how such evils and sufferings came to be.
Forget all that for now. There is a much simpler way to demonstrate why this argument is utterly flawed.
First you must see that in a universe with no God, there cannot be any absolute moral values. Most atheists admit this. For example:



“Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3)no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent.” -William B. Provine, atheist professor of biology at Cornell University

“In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, and other people are going to get lucky; and you won’t find any rhyme or reason to it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is at the bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good. Nothing but blind pitiless indifference. DNA neither knows nor cares. DNA just is, and we dance to its music.”Richard Dawkins, –Out of Eden, page 133
“If there is no God, everything is permitted.” – Jean Paul Sartre on Ivan Karamazov – Fyodor Dostoevski’s character
“Morality is no more … than an adaptation, and as such has the same status as such things as teeth and eyes and noses. . . . [M]orality is a creation of the genes”. – Michael Ruse
“Nature has no concern for good or bad, right or wrong. . . . We cannot get behind ethics.” – Naturalist Simon Blackburn

Evolutionary biologist E. O. Wilson said that morality is just a survival mechanism. Ethics, he claims,

“is an illusion fobbed off on us by our genes to get us to cooperate,” and “the way our biology enforces its ends is by making us think that there is an objective higher code to which we are all subject.”

Now how does one refute the atheist argument against God based on evil & suffering?
Easy, without God, there is no good or evil. The atheist high priests, quoted above say so.
The atheist thus shoots himself in the head again with such arguing against God based on “there is so much evil”.  For such an argument becomes too obviously wrong given that “no God = no evil”, (as most atheist philosophers themselves state).
Suffering becomes a mere amoral, purposeless event in a cold uncaring cosmos. Or as Dawkins put it, a blind, pitiless, indifferent universe. Suffering but without God suffering is neither evil nor good nor “bad”. Thus we see how the atheist in using the existence of evil and suffering to refute the existence of God is unwittingly assuming the existence of God in the very argument itself!
Therefore, how can one claim God doesn’t exist while admitting the existence of evil? If there is no God how does one define evil?  Indeed, how does one claim that suffering is “wrong” in a universe without God?
One might even state,

“Evil exists.  Therefore God exists.”

The fact that all men everywhere and at all times have recognized the existence of evil, demonstrates the existence of a transcendent moral law, else, evil does not exist. Things simply are what they are – neither right nor wrong; neither evil or good.
Without an absolute law giver, there can be no such thing as evil or good and since atheists, as shown above, really do admit that without God there is no real good or evil, how can they then contradict themselves by claiming God doesn’t exist based on it?!
Thus the atheists show a rather amazing lack of perception, as always.  But in this case it is a lack of perception of their own arguments logical implications and flaws! To argue against God based on the existence of evil is to argue for God based on the existence of moral right and wrong! So when atheists use the old “problem of pain and evil” argument they are unwittingly admitting of a transcendent Law that defines evil by the existence of absolute good – which is the ONLY way evil can be defined!
C.S. Lewis wrote,

“Truth and falsehood are opposed; but truth is the norm not of truth only but of falsehood also.”
–The Allegory of Love

Indeed, without God (ultimate truth) there is no reason to call anything at all “evil”.
Thus the whole “evil and suffering” based argument falls apart under its own underlying assumptions! Thus, this argument actually does more to uphold the existence of God than it can ever do to refute it!
Sadly, atheists do not and will not see this, such is the hardness of their hearts (and heads).


1) https://borne.wordpress.com/2012/07/04/on-the-problem-of-evil-suffering/

http://questions.truth-is-life.org/IsGodEvil.html



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Did God Create An Imperfect World? 1

The evidence seems overwhelming. The world is anything but perfect. This has led some to believe that a God of perfect love could not have been the author of such a flawed plan. But if we contemplate this notion a bit, we will see that to do otherwise would rule out God’s having to create a world of time and space.

God created the earth with a finite size, taking up a finite space. Was this a mistake? The imperfection of this finite design is that everything that will ever live cannot possibly occupy this limited space at the same time. So life forms come and go. They die but they reproduce to keep things going.

The only way to change this apparent “wasteful” situation would be to allow everything to live forever, and on a planet that kept getting bigger and bigger. This would also mean that one life form could never eat another.

But this would throw all organic process out the window – since the main function of internal organs is to process food and make it available to every cell in the body. Cells would no longer have to process anything for the body, either. (We certainly would not need an immune system in a world of perfect health.)

So, it would be no sense keeping our internal organs unless they were allowed to remain inside our bodies in order to “pantomime” the functions of life. Is it not within God’s Infinite power to keep us alive even with hollow bodies?

Why stop there? Plants would no longer have to turn the energy of the sun into starches. Earthworms would not have to labor to keep the soil fertile, etc., etc.

So what would everything be alive for in a perfect world if what they were designed to do became irrelevant? Idealists might respond by saying that everything in a perfect world would be alive to share the world in peaceful coexistence and happiness – people, bugs and bacteria.

But could a worm find happiness in not being a human? Therefore, in a perfect world, there would be no hierarchy. Evolution (and species extinction) would not be necessary if God simply created only humans – right off the bat.

But that would not make things perfect unless all humans were created as loving angels.

Furthermore, we would all have to look equally beautiful or handsome, and be equally intelligent, in order for the world to be a place of true equality and justice.

Unfortunately, in such a perfect cookie-cutter world, how would we maintain our unique personalities without enjoying first-person phenomenal experience? How would we be interesting to others?

I believe a true God of love would give us the capacity to choose what we love, good or bad, because this is the drive belt of who we are.

Think about that. Human free will and human disposition is founded on love itself. God protects this freedom of the human spirit above everything else. Heaven is a choice. And there is nothing that could prevent us from making that choice but ourselves.

The physical world of time and space was created in such a way as to offer us a full spectrum of influences so that we could prepare ourselves for a non-material afterlife. In God’s eternal, spiritual realm, we will find ourselves in a non-physical environment whose topological features, flora and fauna, reflect the qualities of our heart and mind.

What could be more perfect than a world tailor-made for each of us, and our personal proclivities?

1. https://thegodguy.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/did-god-create-an-imperfect-world/

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Sometimes I think and wish God would immediately do something to stop for example the Chinese Government to put people in prison unjustly to suffer horrendous torments and tortures. But it's not only the Chinese. It happens in many places. Recently, I knew, it is happening in Turkey as well. Followers of the Gulen movement have been arrested, and there is evidence they are being tortured in prison as well. I know that is more an emotional impulse without putting too much thought into it. I am aware of the consequences. Either free will is total, or there would be no free will.

Sadly, many misuse their freedom to do evil. If God would intervene in a particular case, the question would be, why not in all? Then he would have to eradicate all evil on earth. It would be a world where only good things can happen. But no love. God values love and the possibility of expression of love so much, that he permits evil. He values it so much, that he, HIMSELF, came here on earth, suffered more than anyone else, to express his love for all of us, and gave his life. If Gods creative power is incomprehensible, how much more his character, goodness, love, and moral perfection?

Some, like you and me, were born in countries, and an age, where probably religious persecution will not occur, and we will be able to live a peaceful life and be able to express what we believe in freedom and no fear to be arrested and put in jail. But many other brothers and sisters in Christ will suffer because of it. Right now. Never, persecution of Christ's body has been more widespread, than today. But why has someone this fate, and someone else has not? Some religions, like spiritualism, try to take profit of this lack of explanation and fill the gap with Kharma. But we know, that's not true. We are set to live once, die, and then comes judgement. Some are saved and go up, and others down. God created all this diversity, as creator, he has this right. Nevertheless, it is at least to me, above my comprehension.

If he permits evil, we sometimes cannot comprehend, why. But he, which is far above us in every sense, he who incorporates the only holy perfect sinless life, knows everything, and we can trust him and know. What he does, is good. Even if we do not understand it.

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Imagine a world in which God created beings who are free to choose good over evil. Such a world would certainly be more valuable for God to create than a world filled with determined beings. Nonetheless, given that these beings are free, God cannot determine that these beings always choose good over evil, for then they would cease to be free. Thus, in creating beings that are capable of freely choosing good, He has also created beings that are capable of freely choosing evil. If this is the case, an all-powerful and all-good God finds it perfectly reasonable to allow evil to exist, for this evil is a potential consequence of the actions of free beings. If a being is truly free, it must be able to freely choose between two genuinely opposing options, in this case, good and evil. It is always possible for any free being to choose evil over good in any given circumstance, just by virtue of being free. Hence, the objection asks God to do the impossible, namely to create a truly free being and also to prevent that being from choosing evil.

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https://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-532240/is-god-evil

Top 10 Evil Bible Stories

1. God drowns the whole earth: In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and perhaps unicorns. Only a single family survives. In Matthew 24:37-42, gentle Jesus approves of this genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.

2. God kills half a million people: In 2 Chronicles 13:15-18, God helps the men of Judah kill 500,000 of their fellow Israelites.

3. God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn: In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.

4. God kills 14,000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them: In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.

5. Genocide after genocide after genocide: In Joshua 6:20-21, God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys. In Deuteronomy 2:32-35, God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children. In Deuteronomy 3:3-7, God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they take as spoils of war. In 1 Samuel 15:1-9, God tells the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites men, women, children, infants, and their cattle for something the Amalekites ancestors had done 400 years earlier.

6. God kills 50,000 people for curiosity: In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant. (Newer cosmetic translations count only 70 deaths, but their text notes admit that the best and earliest manuscripts put the number at 50,070.)

7. 3,000 Israelites killed for inventing a god: In Exodus 32, Moses has climbed Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments. The Israelites are bored, so they invent a golden calf god. Moses comes back and God commands him: Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor. About 3,000 people died.

8. The Amorites destroyed by sword and by Gods rocks: In Joshua 10:10-11, God helps the Israelites slaughter the Amorites by sword, then finishes them off with rocks from the sky.

9. God burns two cities to death: In Genesis 19:24, God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah with fire from the sky. Then God kills Lots wife for looking back at her burning home.

10. God has 42 children mauled by bears: In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them. (Newer cosmetic translations say the bears maul the children, but the original Hebrew, baqa, means to tear apart.)

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THESE 11 BIBLE VERSES ARE SAID TO TURN BELIEVERS INTO ATHEISTS

https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/christianity/these-11-bible-verses-are-said-to-turn-believers-into-atheists?fbclid=IwAR3wr4jYZKn3E54EBAlhEOH3nw6lxCX0jOqXIimwWOL0-fBW_BR8S4MkhWE

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CAN THE PRESENCE OF EVIL BE RECONCILED WITH THE EXISTENCE OF AN ALL-POWERFUL, ALL-LOVING CREATOR?

The vast majority of attributes and activities we value and revere require free agency. Love requires freedom; no true expression of love has ever been coerced. Rationality also requires freedom; we cannot evaluate evidence and reason through an argument unless we have the freedom to choose between explanations. Even those who deny the existence of a Divine Creator must first have the personal freedom to do so. Freedom is a high value for all
of us, because, without it, we would be enslaved robots unable to love, hate, reason, or rebel. If the Divine Creator of the universe respects freedom as much as we do, we should expect a beautiful universe in which love and reason are possible, even though hate and irrationality must also be tolerated and allowed (at least in this mortal portion of our existence). Freedom, in all its beauty, does not come without associated dangers. Some forms of perceived evil may be the necessary consequence of free agency.

EVIL CAN BE RECONCILED IF WE HOLD AN APPROPRIATE DEFINITION OF LOVE
We typically view evil as the antithesis of love. But our definition of love has been deeply compromised by the way it is portrayed in contemporary novels and movies. Love is far more than sentimentality, romance, or affection. Parents know this better than anyone else. There are times when the deepest, truest expression of love is some form of discipline or correction. Hardship is a necessary part of life, especially if our Creator loves us enough to give us the free agency required to love, reason, and interact with one another. The existence of evil is incompatible with a loving Divine Creator only if our definition of love is restricted to a simple, unrealistic caricature.

EVIL CAN BE RECONCILED IF WE UNDERSTAND ITS ROLE IN CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT
Loving parents are usually more concerned with their children’s character than their comfort, and character is developed more through adversity than advantage. Hard times can bring out the best in all of us, providing us with opportunities to help those in need, rise to the occasion, and come to the rescue. Valor is seldom displayed in times of fortune, good health, or success. Some forms of perceived evil may simply be an effort on the part of a Divine Creator to develop the character of His children with eternity in mind.

EVIL CAN BE RECONCILED IF WE RECOGNIZE ITS POWER TO DRAW US
In desperate situations, many people consider life beyond the material universe for the very first time. Tragedy has a way of redirecting our thoughts and pointing us to a life beyond the limits of our present experience “inside the room.” If there is a loving, Divine Creator who has designed us for an existence beyond the grave, it might not be unreasonable for this Creator to use hardship to refocus those of us who haven’t been paying attention. When we come to the end of ourselves, we often start looking for something (and someone) “outside the room.” Some forms of perceived evil may simply be evidence of a loving effort to point us in the right direction.

EVIL CAN BE RECONCILED IF WE ACCEPT ITS EXISTENCE AS A CONSEQUENCE
Sometimes our suffering is simply the result of bad choices on our part, and it’s not always easy to see how our prior choices eventually cause such suffering. There are times when choices we made years earlier eventually catch up with us. In my line of work, poor choices often lead to the intervention of the criminal justice system. My arrestees ultimately end up paying for their prior bad decisions.

EVIL CAN BE RECONCILED IF WE ACKNOWLEDGE OUR LIMITED UNDERSTANDING
But even with these prior explanations in mind, there are times when suffering seems entirely inexplicable. I’ve seen this repeatedly in the cases I’ve worked. Why do bad things happen to good people? Why do people sometimes get away with murder? I’ve never investigated a case in which I was able to answer every possible question a juror might ask. In fact, the majority of my cases have been successfully prosecuted in spite of a number of unanswered questions. If there is a vastly superior Divine Creator, we shouldn’t expect to understand every motive, every thought, or every set of concerns in the Creator’s mind. One thing is certain, however: the answers will involve the entire complex web of causal factors and relevant issues we’ve described so far in this chapter. Consequently, some forms of perceived evil may have to be patiently endured, given our limited perspective and the complexity of the issues involved.

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How Could God Command Genocide in the Old Testament?
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/how-could-god-command-genocide-in-the-old-testament-2/

As the maker of all things and the ruler of all people, God has absolute rights of ownership over all people and places.
God is not only the ultimate maker, ruler, and owner, but he is just and righteous in all that he does.
All of us deserve God’s justice; none of us deserve God’s mercy.
The Canaanites were enemies of God who deserved to be punished.
God’s actions were not an example of ethnic cleansing.
God’s people and failure to remove the unrepentant from the land meant that the entire nation would be pulled down with the rebellious, resulting in idolatry, injustice, and evil which sadly proved to be the case all too often under the old covenant.
There was salvation for those who converted to faith in God. Rahab the prostitute (whose story is told in Joshua 2) she was saved from destruction and included in the nation of Israel. She even became an ancestor of king David and, eventually, Jesus Christ!

What Exactly Did God Command?
https://www.bethinking.org/bible/old-testament-mass-killings


The command to annihilate was limited only to inhabitants of Canaan. God gave the Israelites strict rules about proper conduct in war against other enemies who did not live in Canaan.
The judgement was intended to be expulsion from the land rather than genocide  God’s judgement was primarily that the Canaanites would lose the land because of their detestable religious practices and in order to preserve the purity of Israel’s worship of Him.  
God is not ‘racist’ – he later judged Israel by removing them from the land As already mentioned, when the Israelites adopted the religious practices of the Canaanites, God judged them just as He had done the Canaanites.

Why Did God Command the Mass Killing of the Canaanites?

https://www.bethinking.org/bible/old-testament-mass-killings
God’s judgement on a culture that was utterly pervaded by detestable religious practices. The wrath of God against sin and His righteous judgement of sinners are important biblical principles. Without understanding that God must judge sin we cannot understand the wonder of God’s forgiveness and grace or the amazing truth of the cross, where Christ endured the wrath of God for our sin.
God’s desire to preserve Israel from the religions of the Canaanites. Deuteronomy 20:16-18  “Otherwise they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshipping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God”.  
God was patient with the Canaanites.  In Genesis 15:13-16, God tells Abraham that his descendants will be slaves in a foreign country for 400 years but that they will return to the land of Canaan after “four generations”. The reason given for this delay is because “the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure”.
What About the Innocent Canaanites? In particular, the thought of young children being killed is troubling. One thing we must remember is that death is not the end. In fact, the judgement faced after death (Hebrews 9:27) is much more serious than any judgement resulting in physical death because it determines the eternal destiny of the person. We can trust God to deal fairly with the innocent children who died in the invasion of Canaan, who could not be held responsible for the sin of their culture or religion.

Why Are We Troubled?
Rebellion against God – for others, the struggle arises from a fundamental objection to the very idea that God can or should judge sinful people. According to Scripture, all sin must be judged and every person deserves death and eternal punishment.

https://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-532240/is-god-evil

Top 10 Evil Bible Stories


1. God drowns the whole earth: In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and perhaps unicorns. Only a single family survives. In Matthew 24:37-42, gentle Jesus approves of this genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.

Noah and the flood: Was God evil?
https://www.christiantoday.com/article/noah-and-the-flood-was-god-evil/36278.htm
Argument: Mr Maher's assertion is a common one - that God's actions in the flood, killing everyone on earth except Noah and his extended family, are in fact evil and could even be called genocidal.
Response: In terms of what actually happened, people have to read the whole story in context. Remember, everyone dies. Everyone in our day is going to die, everyone in Noah's day was going to die. If there is an almighty God, and he has ultimate control over who lives and who dies, then it's not like a human being who goes out and commits genocide. God doesn't commit genocide. People are going to die anyway, so would there be a reason for God to allow such a spectacular event to happen at that time? An event which would prevent the human race from going down the path it was going down. I think there was. The whole world was destroying itself. Humanity was killing both itself and God's world. What if the best option was to start again? I would say that most people when they ask the question about whether the flood was somehow evil, they're thinking 'what about all these innocent people and this wonderful word? How could God come along and just arbitrarily remove them?' But what if it wasn't arbitrary. What if it was actual justice? Are we in a position to say that it wasn't? The truth is, we're not in a position to judge God. I think that as a Christian I accept that what God does is right and just and fair, and I look at the account of Noah and I say 'Wow, was the world in that much of a mess?' Sometimes I look at the world today and I can see how it was.

2. God kills half a million people: In 2 Chronicles 13:15-18, God helps the men of Judah kill 500,000 of their fellow Israelites.

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Dennis Prager, The rational Bible, page 232
Non-theistic ethic is found in Thucydides’ fifth-century BCE History of the Peloponnesian War. As Thucydides recounts, Athens and Sparta were at war, and the Athenians were pressuring the residents of the island of Melos to support
their war effort and to pay them tribute. The Melians wished to remain neutral, insisting they had done and would do Athens no harm, and simply wished to be left alone. The Athenians countered that this was an unacceptable option, that Athens would appear weak to other nations if it let Melos remain neutral, and threatened the island with destruction. “Is that your idea of fair play?” the Melians asked the Athenian delegates. “So far as right and wrong are concerned,” the Athenians answered, “there is no difference between the two.” Rather, “the strong do what they have the power to do and the weak accept what they have to accept.”

The Melians refused to pay tribute, and Athens besieged Melos. Once the Melians surrendered, the Athenians murdered the men and sold the women and children into slavery. Some twenty-four hundred years later, Friedrich Nietzsche, the nineteenth century’s most famous atheist (“God is dead”) wrote with great contempt of those who sympathized with the Melians’ moral appeals. It is precisely this belief of both the Athenians and Nietzsche—“the strong do what they have the power to do and the weak accept what they have to accept”—ethical monotheism came to combat.

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The Argument from Innocent Suffering.

Why he still created humankind with the knowledge that humanity would bring sin into the world we are not told. We are only told that he has done it this way. Since God has not explained his motives it would be fruitless for us to speculate. No one knows the answer because God has not revealed it to us.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts
(Isaiah 55:8,9).

Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and his ways past finding out!
(Romans 11:33).

Contrary to some theists who contend that this is the best of all possible worlds, it seems to be an undeniable fact of life that this world can be improved. For example, not every evil is deserved; cruelty, cancer, and genocide sometimes strike innocent victims. But an all-wise, all-powerful, and all-good God would not allow any innocent suffering. Even one injustice in the world—and surely there are many—argues against God being all-just. Theists sometimes object to this argument on the grounds that it is logically possible that there are unknown reasons for all apparently innocent suffering. Atheists, however, have countered with the objection that unless a theist can supply a plausible reason for the innocent suffering, the theistic position is practically, if not logically, impossible.

It is possible that all suffering is deserved as a result of Adam’s sin and that it is God’s mercy that saves humans from more suffering, which they do deserve. Many Christian theists believe this is what the Bible is saying in Genesis 3 and Romans 5, 8. Second, simply because we do not see a good purpose for some suffering does not mean that there is no purpose for it. Our lack of knowledge does not prove God’s lack of goodness. Since we are finite, we can expect that there are many things we do not know. And if God is omniscient, then we can be assured that there is nothing God does not know—including a good purpose for all suffering.

We do know a good purpose for much suffering, and given the nature of an all-good, all-knowing, and all-powerful God, we can be assured that God knows a good purpose for permitting the rest of the suffering, for which we—in our finitude—do not know the purpose. Fourth, not every particular occurrence of suffering needs a purpose. There may be random or gratuitous evil in the world. But God may have a good purpose for permitting it as a by-product of his good purposes or as collateral damage in his necessary and good war on evil. 

What needs to be proved by the atheist is not that there is innocent suffering but that there is some unredeemable or unjustifiable suffering. The theist may argue that some “innocent” suffering is good and that this world is not the final chapter in the story of human suffering. Second, the theist may argue that this is not the best of all possible worlds, but that it is the best of all possible ways to obtain the best possible world, which world is yet to come. The theist may contend that suffering in general is a necessary precondition for achieving the greatest good, even if not every particular suffering yields a great good.

Some evil is a by-product of a good process that has a good end. So-called gratuitous evil (which as such appears to be unjustified) may fit into this category. An amputation to save a life and unavoidable collateral damage in a just war are examples.

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