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ElShamah - Reason & Science: Defending ID and the Christian Worldview

Otangelo Grasso: This is my personal virtual library, where i collect information, which leads in my view to the Christian faith, creationism, and Intelligent Design as the best explanation of the origin of the physical Universe, life, biodiversity


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Carbon-14-dated dinosaur bones, non permineralized fossils, and soft tissue like proteins are evidence of young fossils

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Otangelo


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The Axel Heiberg Absurdities

https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2014/05/10/the-axel-heiberg-absurdities/

Apparently, the 40 or 50 [depending upon source] million year old mummified wood found on Axel Heiberg Island still “contains all its organic matter”, “can still be burned” and is “so well preserved that it is difficult to distinguish from present-day samples”.

The eastern part is hilly, with local plains.
It was on this side of the island that large tree stumps were discovered in 1985.

The stumps have since been dated at 40 million years old, evidence that the Far North was at that time much warmer and wetter.

This “Fossil Forest” is not petrified but contains all its organic matter, making it a unique glimpse into an ancient ecosystem.

The stumps, logs, seeds, cones and leaves are in some cases so well preserved that it is difficult to distinguish them from present-day samples.


Axel Heiberg Island
The Canadian Encyclopedia
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/axel-heiberg-island/

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Otangelo


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https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Earths_Age.pdf?token=AWwcjW7ig8MHZ-YnKSEx93vpVAMPmvvkzh5TaDKXvcGQqDA5gSeiBPoMtR-p3rVDGdPQk8ackTbKjH6lZ1OfTmMmvHz0-IHReKjFVgMq7WQGt8mIsZltlBcS1tT3G56tCrlutSA2QvfdH2S4GaOa52G8

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Otangelo


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Exceptional Fossil Preservation and the Cambrian Explosion
Bedding plane specimen of Leanchoilia superlata from the middle Cambrian Burgess Shale (Butterfield, 2002) showing characteristic flattening of degradation-resistant cuticle (original organic-carbon preservation)
https://academic.oup.com/icb/article/43/1/166/604533/Exceptional-Fossil-Preservation-and-the-Cambrian

Evidence of preserved collagen in an Early Jurassic sauropodomorph dinosaur revealed by synchrotron FTIR microspectroscopy
We report the presence of ancient collagen and protein remains preserved in a 195 million-year-old fossil, as demonstrated through in situ SR-FTIR microspectroscopy of the Early Jurassic sauropodomorph dinosaur Lufengosaurus.
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14220

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Otangelo


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New insights of a plesiosaurian with soft tissue preservation from the Toarcian of Holzmaden, Germany 1

http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/t1767p50-carbon-14-dated-dinosaur-bones-non-permineralized-fossils-and-soft-tissue-like-proteins-are-evidence-for-young-fossils#5478

The postcranial skeleton preserves very likely soft tissues composed of buff-coloured and dark-coloured structures around the vertebral column and hindlimb of the animal. A network of buffcoloured fibres located posterior to the hindlimb most likely represents phosphatised collagen fibres as already found in some ichthyosaur specimens, confirming that wing area in plesiosaurians was much larger than that suggested by skeletal remains alone. Because the occurrence of potential soft tissue is exceptional in plesiosaurians, it was decided to avoid destructive analysis that may have helped to establish their chemical or ultrastructural composition. Nevertheless, there is a striking resemblance between the dark- and buff-coloured materials surrounding the neck, tail and hindlimb of SMNS 51945 and the soft tissues documented in several ichthyosaur and cephalopod specimens from the same strata (Keller 1992), as well as Sinemurian and Callovian-Oxfordian ichthyosaurs from the UK and Cretaceous fish from Brazil (Martill 1995). In all these fossils, the buff-coloured material was interpreted as phosphatised muscle tissue.

Carbon-14-dated dinosaur bones, non permineralized fossils, and soft tissue like proteins are evidence of young fossils - Page 3 Plesio10

1. http://rd.springer.com.secure.sci-hub.cc/article/10.1007/s00114-017-1472-6

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Otangelo


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Conclusion: The Dinosaur Bones Are Young


So the young C14 dates can’t be due to radiation. They can’t be due to contamination. They also can’t be the result of differing atmospheric conditions. It must be then that these bones are really young.
However, this conclusion is not likely to be accepted by the scientific community. There is tremendous inertia in science. Those who propose radical changes risk damage to their careers and ridicule. Evolution needs long ages, so the scientists have to defend long ages or else give up evolution, which they do not want to do or are afraid to do. They say that organic matter in the fossils has to be old because evolution requires it and we know that evolution is true. This is an argument that is used to justify the old dates.

http://www.tasc-creationscience.org/article/carbon-14-dating-fossils

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Otangelo


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Dinosaur mummy yields its secrets 1.

A remarkably well-preserved fossil of a dinosaur has been analysed by scientists writing in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society B.
They describe how the fossil's soft tissues were spared from decay by fine sediments that formed a mineral cast.
Tests have shown that the fossil still holds cell-like structures - but their constituent proteins have decayed.
The team says the cellular structure of the dinosaur's skin was similar to that of dinosaurs' modern-day descendants.
A member of the duck-billed hadrosaur family, the fossil was found in North Dakota in the US and has been nicknamed "Dakota".
Phil Manning of the University of Manchester and his collaborators have been employing a number of techniques to tease out as much information as they can from the fossil.

1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8124098.stm

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Otangelo


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Can soft tissue in fossils remain 500mio years preserved? 

Exceptional Fossil Preservation and the Cambrian Explosion
01 February 2003
Bedding plane specimen of Leanchoilia superlata from the middle Cambrian Burgess Shale (Butterfield, 2002) showing characteristic flattening of degradation-resistant cuticle (original organic-carbon preservation)
https://academic.oup.com/icb/article/43/1/166/604533/Exceptional-Fossil-Preservation-and-the-Cambrian

That is in contrast with following paper:

Biomolecules in fossil remains
June 2002
Proteins may afford us the opportunity to recover genetic information from warmer environments, where attempts to recover ancient DNA are less sure of sucess2,7. In more temperate burial environments, osteocalcin has a predicted survival limit of 580 thousand years at 20C and 7,5 million years at 10C .
http://www.biochemist.org/bio/02403/0012/024030012.pdf

Carbon-14-dated dinosaur bones, non permineralized fossils, and soft tissue like proteins are evidence of young fossils - Page 3 22382211

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Otangelo


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03:50
SHE AND HER TEAM RAN MORE CHEMICAL TESTS ON THAT TISSUE
AND CAME UP WITH A HINT OF JOY JURASSIC PARK, A TRACE OF
POSSIBLE DINOSAUR DNA.
>> WE WERE ABLE TO SHOW THAT THERE'S SOMETHING INSIDE THOSE
CELLS THAT'S CHEMICALLY CONSISTENT WITH DNA.
IT REACTS TO DNA STAINS, AND IT REACTS TO ANTI-DNA ANTIBODIES
THE SAME WAY MODERN CELLS DO, ONLY GREATLY REDUCED IN ABUNDANCE.
>> IS IT DNA?
>> DON'T KNOW.
AND, YOU KNOW -- >> CAN YOU FIND OUT IF IT WAS
DNA?
>> YEAH.
EVEN IF IT IS DNA, THOUGH, IF YOU CAN'T SEQUENCE IT, IT REALLY
DOESN'T HAVE MUCH VALUE.
>> THAT'S BECAUSE YOU WOULD NEED ALL THE DNA CHROMOSOMES TO CLONE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3UNeqpG8GU

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Otangelo


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Another type of original organic material that wasn't supposed to be there is discovered; fossilized gum!

Unlike amber, gum is water soluble and should have leached out of these fossil leaves. Yet here it is "110 million years old" (If you can believe that) Surprise and astonishment follows these discoveries which on the surface have the potential to upend the paradigm of millions of years for these fossils. A picture of a living species of this type of plant living in the desert of Namibia in Africa.

Quotes from the article: Emily said: "This new discovery overturns the basic assumption that plant gums cannot be preserved in the fossil record. It has opened our eyes to the fact that other plant chemicals may also be preserved—we can no longer just make assumptions. When we first tested the gum I was astonished that we were confirming something that was thought to be impossible—it just goes to show that fossil plants can surprise us."

Researchers suggest there is still much to learn and that future work should focus on how this preserved gum has survived 110 million years.

https://phys.org/news/2020-02-gum-scientists-million-year-old-treasure.html?fbclid=IwAR22YF3K4rgA5u1aCVdOitqYljuxcdQPThLOHnL5iDUt13pQqU_U0DOsOtI

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Otangelo


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"Molecular analyses of dinosaur osteocytes support the presence of endogenous molecules.
Schweitzer MH1, Zheng W, Cleland TP, Bern M.

Abstract
The discovery of soft, transparent microstructures in dinosaur bone consistent in morphology with osteocytes was controversial.

We hypothesize that, if original, these microstructures will have molecular features in common with extant osteocytes.
We present immunological and mass spectrometry evidence for preservation of proteins comprising extant osteocytes (Actin, Tubulin, PHEX, Histone H4) in osteocytes recovered from two non-avian dinosaurs.

Furthermore, antibodies to DNA show localized binding to these microstructures, which also react positively with DNA intercalating stains propidium iodide (PI) and 4',6'-diamidino-2-phenylindole dihydrochloride (DAPI).

Each antibody binds dinosaur cells in patterns similar to extant cells.
These data are the first to support preservation of multiple proteins and to present multiple lines of evidence for material consistent with DNA in dinosaurs, supporting the hypothesis that these structures were part of the once living animals.

We propose mechanisms for preservation of cells and component molecules, and discuss implications for dinosaurian cellular biology."
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23085295

"Many dinosaur fossils include real bone—they are not completely mineralized, i.e. are not yet ‘rock’.
And what is found inside those dinosaur bones is a huge surprise to many people.
*A series of discoveries since the early 1990s has revealed dino bones with blood cells, hemoglobin, fragile proteins, and soft tissue such as flexible ligaments and blood vessels. And of special note: DNA and radiocarbon. ..

...But so entrenched is the evolutionary paradigm in the scientific community, that it soon became known that Dr Schweitzer was having trouble getting her results published. “I had one reviewer tell me that he didn’t care what the data said, he knew that what I was finding wasn’t possible,” says Schweitzer.
“I wrote back and said, ‘Well, what data would convince you?’ And he said, ‘None.’”

Schweitzer recounts how she noticed that a T. rex skeleton (from Hell Creek, Montana) had a distinctly cadaverous odour. When she mentioned this to long-time paleontologist Jack Horner,2 he said, “Oh yeah, all Hell Creek bones smell.”

But so ingrained is the notion among paleontologists that dinosaur bones must be millions of years old that the *‘smell of death’ didn’t even register with them—despite the evidence being right under their noses.

3 Schweitzer herself does not seem able or willing to escape the long-age paradigm, despite her direct involvement in many of the discoveries.

Note the timeline of these findings across two decades—pointed and regular reminders that something is very wrong with dinosaur-millions-of-years ideas:.."

https://creation.com/double-decade-dinosaur-disquiet

Carbon-14-dated dinosaur bones, non permineralized fossils, and soft tissue like proteins are evidence of young fossils - Page 3 88056710

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Otangelo


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"Mary Schweitzer became famous when she published evidence of soft tissue in dinosaur remains. Then she published a paper that claimed to have sequenced dino proteins and another that claimed evidence of dino DNA. This was from last month (how did I miss it?). From the conclusions: .....

"...our data suggest the preserved nuclear material in Hypacrosaurus was in a condensed state at the time of the death of the organism, which may have contributed to its stability. We propose that DNA condensation may be a favorable process to its fossilization. Additionally, as was suggested for protein fossilization [refs], crosslinking may be another mechanism involved in the preservation of DNA in deep time."

.....She may have just figured out how DNA can remain intact for 4,500 years, and we might have to be thanking her for this in the future. She also discusses the possibility of sequencing dino DNA, which is the most exciting thing I have heard in a long time."
- Dr.Robert Carter

https://academic.oup.com/…/…/doi/10.1093/nsr/nwz206/5762999…

**************************
"Not the first time that she has found dino DNA that is in double-helical form, from fossils "dated" to 10 times what it would take for DNA to break down into its component nucleotides at -5°C."
Dr.Sarfati

https://creation.com/schweitzers-dangerous-discovery

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Otangelo


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Cartilage cells, chromosomes and DNA preserved in 75 million-year-old baby duck-billed dinosaur

https://phys.org/news/2020-02-cartilage-cells-chromosomes-dna-million-year-old.html?fbclid=IwAR0wABnKi7wAye_FmAEattpTobUAqjw1Jc98s5UcNiTldB73oFTch2o_GfQ

This study is lead by Dr. Alida Bailleul (Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology, the Chinese Academy of Sciences) and Dr. Mary Schweitzer (North Carolina State University, NC Museum of Natural Sciences, Lund University and Museum of the Rockies). Microscopic analyses of skull fragments from these nestling dinosaurs were conducted by Alida Bailleul at the Museum of the Rockies. In one fragment she noticed some exquisitely preserved cells within preserved calcified cartilage tissues on the edges of a bone. Two cartilage cells were still linked together by an intercellular bridge, morphologically consistent with the end of cell division (see left image below). Internally, dark material resembling a cell nucleus was also visible. One cartilage cell preserved dark elongated structures morphologically consistent with chromosomes (center image below). "I couldn't believe it, my heart almost stopped beating," Bailleul says.

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Otangelo


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Premise 1. DNA has a half life of 521 years.
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d…/10.1098/rspb.2012.1745

Premise 2. DNA would last about 6.8 million years, after which all the bonds would be broken and nothing would be left.
https://www.the-scientist.com/…/half-life-of-dna-revealed-4…

Premise 3. DNA has been found in dinosaur bones estimated by Evolutionary models to be around 70 million years old. Ten times longer that DNA could possibly be preserved.
https://api.nationalgeographic.com/…/hints-of-dna-discovere…

https://www.scientificamerican.com/…/possible-dinosaur-dn…/…

Conclusions.

1. Dinosaurs did not live acording to the time scale suggested by Evolutionists

2. The time allotted of 6.8 million years for DNA to disintegrate completely, is not enough to account for the Extinction of dinosaurs or the evolution of life after them as suggested the theory of Evolution.

3. Then the theory of Evolution is falsified by observation, and cannot be considered as an explanation of the origins of life as we know it.

4. This also falsifies geologic ideas of deep time, and calls all methods of subjectively "guessing" the timelines and dates of these finds, into question.

5. No other idea is available as to be compatible with the objective observations we do have, other than the literal account of Genesis 1. The six days of creation around 7000 years ago.

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Otangelo


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Carbon-14-dated dinosaur bones, non permineralized fossils, and soft tissue like proteins are evidence for young fossils

Biomolecules in fossil remains June 2002
Proteins may afford us the opportunity to recover genetic information from warmer environments, where attempts to recover ancient DNA are less sure of sucess. In more temperate burial environments, osteocalcin has a predicted survival limit of 580 thousand years at 20C and 7,5 million years at 10C .


Mary Schweitzer is featured at Christianity Today as one of 6 Christian women scientists worthy of special notice. She did stir up controversy when she started to discover original organic molecules in dinosaurs. This discovery has been repeated many many times now but I just wanted to share one thing that came out in CT's article page 50. (March 2020 issue) She noticed the bones SMELLED ODD, LIKE A CAMPUS CADAVER LAB. Imagine that!! She could smell the organic material rotting right in front of her. Volatile organics like that should be short-lived indeed. But to smell T-REX bones rotting....well that is something I didn't pick up before in any article. How old can something be and still SMELL it rotting? Something to think about.

Evidence of proteins, chromosomes and chemical markers of DNA in exceptionally preserved dinosaur cartilage 12 January 2020
A histological ground-section from a duck-billed dinosaur nestling (Hypacrosaurus stebingeri) revealed microstructures morphologically consistent with nuclei and chromosomes in cells within calcified cartilage. We hypothesized that this exceptional cellular preservation extended to the molecular level and had molecular features in common with extant avian cartilage. Histochemical and immunological evidence supports in situ preservation of extracellular matrix components found in extant cartilage, including glycosaminoglycans and collagen type II. Furthermore, isolated Hypacrosaurus chondrocytes react positively with two DNA intercalating stains. Specific DNA staining is only observed inside the isolated cells, suggesting endogenous nuclear material survived fossilization.

Soft tissue cannot remain non-permineralized for  millions of years. That adds to the C14 carbon dating evidence. The best explanation is in my view that the fossils are younger than thought for a long time.

In 2011, UK archaeologists and experts on bone collagen decay wrote that “it will take between 0.2 and 0.7 Ma [million years] at 10°C for levels of collagen to fall to 1% in an optimal burial environment.”

Collagen survival and its use for species identification in Holocene-lower Pleistocene bone fragments from British archaeological and paleontological sites
We have previously reported a technique using the dominant structural protein collagen (type I) as a source of genetic information for species identification in modern and relatively young (Holocene) archaeological samples. We report a systematic investigation of amino acid composition and collagen peptide mass fingerprints (PMF), for a range of samples dating back approximately 1.5 million years. Extrapolation from high temperature experimental decomposition rates predict that at a constant 10°C (the approximate mean annual air temperature in Britain today) it will take between 0.2 and 0.7 Ma for levels of collagen to fall to 1% of their original concentration in an optimal burial environment. Even when the glacial intervals of the British Quaternary are factored into the temperature calculations, the more conservative of these two estimates extends the range for collagen sequencing to the Lower Pleistocene as confirmed by the presence of collagen peptides in bones from the Weybourne Crag (~1.5 Ma).

So, collagen could last 450,000 or so years on average. If kept below freezing, it might be imagined to last one or two million years at the very most. But evolutionary biologists agree that dinosaurs lived in a very warm climate, so in their scenario, this would vastly shrink the times—at 20°C, collagen would have decomposed below the detection limit in about 15,000 years

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Otangelo


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Why Are Amino Acids Still Found in Fossils?
http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/amino/survive.htm

NON-AVIAN DINOSAUR EGGSHELL CALCITE CONTAINS ANCIENT, ENDOGENOUS AMINO ACIDS
RP-HPLC shows that amino acids are present within the titanosaur eggshell calcite.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.02.129999v1.full

Reconstructed Precambrian ancient proteins exhibit elevated thermostability
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5010474/

Move over, DNA: ancient proteins are starting to reveal humanity’s history
Proteins dating back more than one million years have been extracted from some fossils, and could help to answer some difficult questions about archaic humans. Previously, scientists had recovered proteins from 1.8-million-year-old animal teeth and a 3.8-million-year-old eggshell.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01986-x

Fibres and cellular structures preserved in 75-million–year-old dinosaur specimens
We identify amino-acid fragments typical of collagen fibrils. Using mass spectrometry, we found peaks that are consistent with fragments of amino acids present in collagen.
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms8352

Ancient amino acids from fossil feathers in amber
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-42938-9
Fossil inclusions in amber are characterized by exceptional morphological preservation of soft tissues, which suggests the possibility of similarly exceptional protein preservation; this is supported by two previous investigations of fossils in amber based on levels of amino acid racemization. Liquid chromatography analysis of insects in resin, copal, and amber samples, ranging in age from 100 years old to 130 million years old, reported ancient amino acids with very low levels of racemization.

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Otangelo


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BRIAN THOMAS, PH.D.'80 Million-Year-Old' Mosasaur Fossil Has Soft Retina and Blood Residue AUGUST 20, 2010

Mosasaur fossils have been recovered from Late Cretaceous rocks all over the world. Most are just a fossilized tooth or perhaps a loose rib or vertebra. Occasionally, several bones are discovered still together. Conventional wisdom holds that creatures from this period died millions of year ago. If that's true, why do some still have soft tissue?

The best preserved mosasaur remains, found in Kansas, have been kept in a California museum for over 40 years. So much of the original mosasaur body remained intact that a recent study was able to glean unique insights into mosasaur swimming abilities, as well as details about its skin, eyes, and possibly its internal organs.

Paleontologist Luis Chiappe led a team of scientists in examining the unique specimen housed at the Dinosaur Institute of the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County. In a study published online in PLoS ONE, the researchers analyzed purple residue in the eyeball area of the mosasaur skull and concluded that it "may represent remnants of the retina."1

They verified that the residue was original soft tissue from a mosasaur eye when they found microscopic pigment-filled structures called melanosomes, which serve to reduce light scattering. Found also in modern eyes, including those of humans, the darkly pigmented area in the back of the eye is familiar to anatomy students from eyeball dissections.

But soft tissues, like this retinal tissue residue, are known to decompose quickly in laboratory conditions. If this mosasaur was deposited "80 million years" ago,1 why did its soft tissue remnants remain soft? The obvious implication of a more recent deposition went unreported.

Some might counter the statement that the melanosomes represent soft tissue by claiming that the tiny, darkly colored oblong structures were bacteria that may have arrived long after the fossil formed. The research refutes this possibility for a number of reasons. First, bacteria would have grown on the outside of the fossil and the melanosomes were located deep inside. Second, bacteria would have grown all over--on the skin, in the preserved stomach contents, and in the internal organ remains. But the melanosomes were found only in the eyes. Third, their microscopic shapes matched those of melanosomes, not bacteria.

And these soft-tissue melanosomes are not the first to be found in fossils. Researchers have found them in fossilized feathers, as well.2,3,4

Also found among the "exceptionally preserved soft tissue" were interesting dark red patches in the chest cavity.1 To find out what chemical stained the rocks red, the investigators submitted samples for chemical analysis--and the result was spectacular. They identified "hemoglobin decomposition products."1 Hemoglobin is a major chemical constituent of blood, and biochemists know that it breaks down fast.

The researchers corroborated that the red color came from broken-down blood when they examined the positioning of the heart and liver within living ocean creatures. In dolphins and whales, these organs--as well as the lungs--are situated near the head to give them a streamlined shape. One of the dark red patches in the mosasaur was right where a dolphin's heart would be located. It appears that these two blood-rich organs did not completely decay.

Despite the amazing find of the mosasaur's purple retinal and still-red blood tissues, "the most remarkable features of [this fossil] are the preservation of skin structures from all parts of the body."1 The researchers were able to describe in detail the scale sizes and shapes almost from head to tail. Many of the small scales retained their three-dimensional shapes.

So, considering its "wide range of soft tissue structures,"1 including skin, eyeball tissue, and blood-stained organ patches, it is highly unlikely that this mosasaur is even thousands of years old, since these tissues decay so quickly. Therefore, insisting that they are over 80 million years old defies all reason.

https://www.icr.org/article/a-80-million-year-old-mosasaur-fossil

Johan Lindgren Convergent Evolution in Aquatic Tetrapods: Insights from an Exceptional Fossil Mosasaur  August 9, 2010

The exceptionally preserved soft tissue morphology and overall body outline are the focus of this report.

Carbon-14-dated dinosaur bones, non permineralized fossils, and soft tissue like proteins are evidence of young fossils - Page 3 Pone_010
Close-up of phosphatized soft tissues (purplish matter, partially obscured by yellow-whitish matrix) pressed against the sclerotic ring aperture, possibly representing remnants of the retina. The area sampled for SEM-EDX analysis is marked with a circle. (D) SEM image of putative melanosomes within the phosphatized soft tissues of the eye. Scale bars represent 3 cm


https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0011998

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Otangelo


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Mark Armitage Utterly preserved cells are not remnants—a critique of Dinosaur Blood and the Age of the Earth April 2017  1

The diagnostic double-helical wrapping of collagen in the epineurium and perineurium seen in these dinosaur nerve fragments leads us to conclude that these are indeed nerves from bone canals of  Triceratops occipital condyle. There is no question that more attempts must be made to secure and characterize fibers from other dinosaur taxa, and especially from other depositional environments. The flexibility of individual decalcified nerves was astonishing. Nerves held at each end with fine needle forceps only broke into two pieces after repeated tugging.

Carbon-14-dated dinosaur bones, non permineralized fossils, and soft tissue like proteins are evidence of young fossils - Page 3 Rhino_10

First Report of Peripheral Nerves in Bone from Triceratops horridus Occipital Condyle
https://www.dstri.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/3armitage_MicroToday-1.pdf.

1. https://creation.com/dinosaur-blood-fuz-rana

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SOPHIE CURTIS  Scientists find fossil from THE DAY the dinosaurs died 66m years ago: Leg of Thescelosaurus was 'ripped off in aftermath' of huge asteroid strike that wiped out most species on Earth 7 April 2022

How do these researchers infer that an asteroid impact, 65 mio years ago, caused a flood, and buried dinosaurs ? Actually, the claim is that six events of mass extinction ocurred. What is the logic behind these claims ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10694949/Fragment-Chicxulub-asteroid-unearthed-remains-dinosaur-killed-impact.html

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Otangelo


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1. Mark Armitage: The bones we have thin sectioned (nine different individual dinosaurs + Dimetrodon [permian] to date) all have vessel canals clotted full of blood clots.
2. This is a direct result of drowning in water. Look up hypercoagulopathy and disseminated intravascular coagulation.
3. The conclusion is they were all asphyxiated while drowning. Therefore, the evidence in fossils of dinosaurs points to Noah's flood, which happened, if taking the Septuagint timeline, about 7300 years ago.  

https://dstri.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/MTO2100156PRF-Armitage-v1.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1imbBafoCFxkFJ7jEdYsmEQQEVWcWkqbaHuvEjekE8PJyxBDKQLPrMku4

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BARRY YEOMAN: Schweitzer’s Dangerous Discovery APRIL 1, 2006

EVER SINCE MARY HIGBY SCHWEITZER peeked inside the fractured thighbone of a Tyrannosaurus rex, the introverted scientist’s life hasn’t been the same. Neither has the field of paleontology.

Two years ago, Schweitzer gazed through a microscope in her laboratory at North Carolina State University and saw lifelike tissue that had no business inhabiting a fossilized dinosaur skeleton: fibrous matrix, stretchy like a wet scab on human skin; what appeared to be supple bone cells, their three-dimensional shapes intact; and translucent blood vessels that looked as if they could have come straight from an ostrich at the zoo.

By all the rules of paleontology, such traces of life should have long since drained from the bones. It’s a matter of faith among scientists that soft tissue can survive at most for a few tens of thousands of years, not the 65 million since T. rex walked what’s now the Hell Creek Formation in Montana. But Schweitzer tends to ignore such dogma. She just looks and wonders, pokes and prods, following her scientific curiosity. That has allowed her to see things other paleontologists have missed — and potentially to shatter fundamental assumptions about how much we can learn from the past. If biological tissue can last through the fossilization process, it could open a window through time, showing not just how extinct animals evolved but how they lived each day. “Fossils have richer stories to tell — about the lub-dub of dinosaur life — than we have been willing to listen to,” says Robert T. Bakker, curator of paleontology at the Houston Museum of Natural Science. “This is one spectacular proof of that.”

At the same time, the contents of those T. rex bones have also electrified some creationists, who interpret Schweitzer’s findings as evidence that Earth is not nearly as old as scientists claim. “I invite the reader to step back and contemplate the obvious,” wrote Carl Wieland on the Answers in Genesis Web site last year. “This discovery gives immensely powerful support to the proposition that dinosaur fossils are not millions of years old at all, but were mostly fossilized under catastrophic conditions a few thousand years ago at most.”

Rhetoric like this has put Schweitzer at the center of a raging cultural controversy, because she is not just a pioneering paleontologist but also an evangelical Christian. That fact alone has prompted some prominent paleontologists to be even more skeptical about her scientific research. Some creationists have questioned her work from the other direction, pressing her to refute Darwinian evolution. But in her religious life, Schweitzer is no more of an ideologue than she is in her scientific career. In both realms, she operates with a simple but powerful consistency: The best way to understand the glory of the world is to open your eyes and take an honest look at what is out there.

Reticent by nature, Schweitzer rarely grants interviews and shies away from making grand pronouncements about her scientific research or her religious faith. Instead of news stories about her stunning findings, she has adorned her office wall with a verse from the book of Jeremiah: “For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”

SCHWEITZER’S UNCONVENTIONAL VIEW of the fossilized past is rooted in her enduring sense of wonder. When she was 5, her older brother gave her a copy of Oliver Butterworth’s The Enormous Egg, a fantasy that plays off the then-controversial notion of a close kinship between dinosaurs and birds. She became a dinosaur buff, but as so often happens, with adulthood her interests drifted in other directions. She spent summers selling snow cones and fireworks. She worked with deaf children. She earned an undergraduate degree in communicative disorders and a certificate in secondary education.


From Schweitzer’s blog: a dinosaur bone found embedded in a sandstone cliff in Montana. “Its dense outer bone and hollow core look more like a theropod than anything else,” she wrote.

In 1989, while dividing her time between substitute teaching and her three children, Schweitzer steered back toward her childhood fascination with dinosaurs. She approached Jack Horner, a renowned dinosaur scientist, and asked if she could audit his vertebrate paleontology course at Montana State University. He appreciated her refreshingly nontraditional mind. “She really wasn’t much of a scientist — which is good,” says Horner, curator of paleontology at the Museum of the Rockies. “Scientists all get to thinking alike, and it’s good to bring people in from different disciplines. They ask questions very differently.”

Schweitzer’s first forays into paleontology were “a total hook,” she says. Not only was she fascinated by the science, but to her, digging into ancient strata seemed like reading the history of God’s handiwork. Schweitzer worships at two churches — an evangelical church in Montana and a nondenominational one when she is back home in North Carolina — and when she talks about her faith, her bristly demeanor falls away. “God is so multidimensional,” she says. “I see a sense of humor. I see His compassion in the world around me. It makes me curious, because the creator is revealed in the creation.” Unlike many creationists, she finds the notion of a world evolving over billions of years theologically exhilarating: “That makes God a lot bigger than thinking of Him as a magician that pulled everything out in one fell swoop.”

Schweitzer’s career began just as paleontologists started framing their own questions in more multidimensional ways. Until the 1980s, researchers were more likely to be trained in earth science than in biology. They often treated fossils as geologic specimens — mineral structures whose main value lay in showing the skeletal shapes of prehistoric animals. A younger generation of paleontologists, in contrast, has focused on reconstructing intimate details like growth rates and behaviors using modern techniques normally associated with the study of living organisms. “It’s taking dinosaurs from being curious fossils to being biological entities,” says Hans-Dieter Sues, associate director for research and collections at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of Natural History in Washington, D.C.

This shifting perspective clicked with Schweitzer’s intuitions that dinosaur remains were more than chunks of stone. Once, when she was working with a T. rex skeleton harvested from Hell Creek, she noticed that the fossil exuded a distinctly organic odor. “It smelled just like one of the cadavers we had in the lab who had been treated with chemotherapy before he died,” she says. Given the conventional wisdom that such fossils were made up entirely of minerals, Schweitzer was anxious when mentioning this to Horner. “But he said, ‘Oh, yeah, all Hell Creek bones smell,'” she says. To most old-line paleontologists, the smell of death didn’t even register. To Schweitzer, it meant that traces of life might still cling to those bones.

She had already seen signs of exceptional preservation in the early 1990s, while she was studying the technical aspects of adhering fossil slices to microscope slides. One day a collaborator brought a T. rex slide to a conference and showed it to a pathologist, who examined it under a microscope. “The guy looked at it and said, ‘Do you realize you’ve got red blood cells in that bone?'” Schweitzer remembers. “My colleague brought it back and showed me, and I just got goose bumps, because everyone knows these things don’t last for 65 million years.”

When Schweitzer showed Horner the slide, she recalls, “Jack said, ‘Prove to me they’re not red blood cells.’ That was what I got my Ph.D. doing.” She first ruled out contaminants and mineral structures. Then she analyzed the putative cells using a half-dozen techniques involving chemical analysis and immunology. In one test, a colleague injected rats with the dinosaur fossil extract; the rodents produced antibodies that responded to turkey and rabbit hemoglobins. All the data supported the conclusion that the T. rex fossil contained fragments of hemoglobin molecules. “The most likely source of these proteins is the once-living cells of the dinosaur,” she wrote in a 1997 paper.

That article, published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, sparked a small flurry of headlines. Horner and others regarded Schweitzer’s research as carefully performed and credible. Nonetheless, says Horner, “most people were very skeptical. Frequently in our field people come up with new ideas, and opponents say, ‘I just don’t believe it.’ She was having a hard time publishing in journals.”

Schweitzer was also stymied by her unconventional fusion of paleontology and molecular biology. “Those are two disciplines we don’t usually see in the same sentence,” says Lawrence Witmer, an Ohio University anatomy professor. Techniques that were routine in one discipline seemed odd when applied to the other. “If she was working with modern animals, there wouldn’t be anything special about what she was doing,” says Horner. But molecular paleontology was unheard-of. “It is a wide-open field that she invented,” Horner says.

Soldiering on with minimal funding, Schweitzer continued to hunt for the retention of living tissue longer than scientific theory might predict. When a group of fossil hunters found a cluster of preserved bird eggs in a city dump in Neuquén, Argentina, they originally believed the shells contained nothing but sand. Schweitzer placed the remains under scanning electron and atomic force microscopes and concluded that the 70-million-year-old eggs still held embryos containing intact collagen.

For eight years, Schweitzer’s career bobbed along with innovative but not attention-grabbing projects. Then she found that stretchy stuff inside a T. rex femur.

SCHWEITZER’S BREAKTHROUGH, LIKE HER EARLY INSIGHT into the cadaverous odor of dinosaur bones, emerged from the fossil fields of the Hell Creek Formation, rugged badlands so remote that much of it lacks even unpaved roads. Tucked into Montana’s northeast corner, Hell Creek was one of the last places on Earth dominated by dinosaurs before they became extinct.


Mary Schweitzer and Jack Horner in the field. Photo courtesy of Mary Schweitzer.

Horner’s goal was to conduct a complete census of Hell Creek’s dinosaur population — “just go out and collect everything,” he says. In 2000, near one of his satellite camps, field crew chief Bob Harmon was eating lunch when he noticed a T. rex foot bone protruding from a sandstone cliff above his reach. Climbing a folding chair balanced on a pile of rocks, Harmon found another bone, then another, then another.

By the time the team had excavated all the bones and encased them in plaster, the collection weighed 3,000 pounds, heavier than the helicopter could lift. With no other way to transport it, scientists reluctantly split the plaster jacket and broke the T. rex‘s 3.5-foot-long femur. In the process, the fossil bone shed some fragments. Workers wrapped them in aluminum foil and shipped them to North Carolina State University, where Schweitzer had just started teaching. “Jack just gave me the chunks and said, ‘See what you can do with them,'” she recalls. Schweitzer, coping with culture shock and a recent divorce, had hit a lull in her research. “I wasn’t out there soliciting new projects,” she says. “I was trying to survive through each day.”

Her lab was still stacked with unpacked cartons when she opened the cardboard box from the T. rex dig and pulled out the biggest fragment. Looking at it with the eyes of a biologist, she immediately saw it was more than a fossil. Time and history began to unwind. “Oh, my gosh,” she said to her laboratory assistant, Jennifer Wittmeyer. “It’s a girl. And it’s pregnant.”

What Schweitzer saw was medullary bone, a type of tissue that grows inside the long bones of female birds. Medullary bone is produced during ovulation as a way of storing the calcium needed for egg production; then it disappears. “I looked at it under the dissecting scope,” Schweitzer says. “There was nothing else it could be.” The medullary bone even contained gaps and mazelike fiber patterns resembling those of modern birds.

Until that moment, no one had ever identified that tissue in a dinosaur, making it impossible to definitively sex such an animal. “Everything we’ve ever tried to do has been an utter guess,” Schweitzer says. For instance, researchers had tried to distinguish a male from a female based on the shape of a creature’s body or the size of its head crest. Now they had a way to link gender with morphology and, drawing on parallels with living animals, even with behavior.

The second surprise hit in January 2004. While Schweitzer was attending a departmental taco party, Wittmeyer raced breathlessly into the room. “You aren’t going to believe what happened,” the lab assistant sputtered.

Wittmeyer had been pulling the late shift, analyzing pieces from the T. rex limb. She had just soaked a fragment of medullary bone in dilute acid to remove some calcium phosphate. This was an unusual procedure to carry out in a dinosaur lab. Scientists typically assume that a fossilized dinosaur consists of rock that would entirely dissolve in acid, but Schweitzer wanted to get a closer look at the fossil’s fine structure and compare it with that of modern birds. That night Wittmeyer marveled at a small section of decalcified thighbone: “When you wiggled it, it kind of floated in the breeze.”

Schweitzer and Wittmeyer pondered the meaning of the stretchy sample, feeling mystified and ecstatic. The remains seemed like soft tissue — specifically matrix, the organic part of bone, which consists primarily of collagen. Yet this seemed impossible, according to the prevailing understanding. “Everyone knows how soft tissues degrade,” Schweitzer says. “If you take a blood sample and you stick it on a shelf, you have nothing recognizable in about a week. So why would there be anything left in dinosaurs?”

Next Schweitzer examined a piece of the dinosaur’s cortical bone. “We stuck the bone in the same kind of solution,” she says. “The bone mineral dissolved away, and it left these transparent blood vessels. I took one look, and I just said: ‘Uh-uh. This isn’t happening. This is just not happening.'” She started applying the same treatment to bone fragments from another dinosaur that she had acquired for her dissertation. “Sure enough,” she says, “vessels all over the place.”

Less than a month later, while Schweitzer was still collecting data on the soft tissue, came a third score. Wittmeyer walked into the lab looking anxious. “I think maybe some of our stuff’s gotten contaminated, because I see these things floating around, and they look like bugs,” she said. Worried that she would lose her dinosaur blood vessels before she could publish an article about them, Schweitzer rushed to rescue the sample. What she found startled her. Through the microscope she could see what looked like perfectly formed osteocytes, the cells inside bone.

The past was roaring to life.

SCHWEITZER PUBLISHED HER FINDINGS in reverse order — soft tissue first, then the medullary bone — in the journal Science last year. The ensuing avalanche of publicity, sometimes couched in breathless hyperbole (“Jurassic Park-type find could be first step in re-creating T. rex,” huffed a story in the Ottawa Citizen), made her squeamish. She tried to ignore the media, but to no avail. Since the articles appeared, she has become one of the world’s best-known paleontologists. Her findings challenge such basic assumptions about animal preservation that her colleagues have put her research — and the woman herself — under the microscope.


Schweitzer examining a fossil in Montana. Photo courtesy of Mary Schweitzer.

If soft tissue can last 65 million years, Horner says, “there may be a lot of things out there that we’ve missed because of our assumption of how preservation works.” James Farlow, a paleontologist at Indiana University-Purdue University at Fort Wayne, adds, “If you can preserve soft tissue under these circumstances, all bets are off.”

Schweitzer’s work opens the possibility of comparing dinosaur tissue with the tissue of living animals. It could also allow scientists to reconstruct ancient biology, such as prehistoric disease. If paleontologists encounter vascular channels in dinosaur fossils, they might also find nematodes, or roundworms, that lived off the animals’ internal organs. “I’ll bet you a six-pack of Coors that pretty soon people will be discovering Cretaceous parasites inside Cretaceous bones,” says Bakker. “The possibility of looking into epidemiology and pathology is pretty cool.”

On the flip side, Jeffrey Bada, an organic geochemist at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in San Diego, cannot imagine soft tissue surviving millions of years. He says the cellular material Schweitzer found must be contamination from outside sources. Even if the T. rex had died in a colder, drier climate than Hell Creek, environmental radiation would have degraded its body, Bada says: “Bones absorb uranium and thorium like crazy. You’ve got an internal dose that will wipe out biomolecules.”

Others question Schweitzer’s thoroughness. “The pictures were stunning, but the paper fell quite short,” says Hendrik Poinar, a molecular evolutionary geneticist at McMaster University in Ontario. Schweitzer has not proved that the elastic tissue she found actually consists of molecules from the original dinosaur. Poinar ticks off a list of tests Schweitzer could have conducted, including searching for the building blocks of proteins and then sequencing them to determine their origin. “I understand you want to get your papers out quick and flashy,” Poinar says, “but I’m more in favor of longer work with slam-dunk authenticity.”

Schweitzer agrees. “I am a slam-dunk scientist,” she says. “I would have much rather held the paper back until we had reams and reams of data.” But without publishing a journal article, she says, she could never have hoped for funding. “Without the papers in Science, I didn’t stand a chance,” she says. “That’s the saddest part about doing science in America: You are totally driven by what gets you funding.” Since publishing, Schweitzer has conducted many of the analyses Poinar suggests, with initially promising results.

For a scientist, the ultimate test is having independent researchers replicate your results. So far, there hasn’t been a mad rush to do so — few have expertise in both molecular biology and paleontology, not to mention the passion needed to carry out such work. But there is activity. Patrick Orr at University College Dublin is bringing together geologists and organic geochemists to look for soft tissue in a 10-million-year-old frog fossil. Paleontologists at the University of Chicago are setting up a laboratory to look for similar tissue in more T. rex remains; Horner is starting to decalcify other dinosaur bones. In the dinosaur lab at the Children’s Museum of Indianapolis, Bakker has taken some peeks. “I haven’t found anything yet,” he says, “but wouldn’t be a bit surprised if soon somebody comes up with more sticky, bouncy stuff.”

WHILE SCIENTISTS STRUGGLED TO MAKE SENSE of the bones, another community had no doubt about how to interpret the results. The reports were quickly embraced by biblical literalists who believe God created life on Earth less than 10,000 years ago. For decades they have been working to place a scientific patina on their ideas. The Institute for Creation Research runs a graduate school near San Diego with 11 instructors who hold doctorates in biochemistry, geology, and other sciences. Conferences offer papers on topics like the physics of the Genesis flood. “Any time there’s empirical evidence, that’s gold for them,” says Ronald Numbers, a professor of the history of science and medicine at the University of Wisconsin at Madison.

To Schweitzer, trying to prove your religious beliefs through empirical evidence is absurd, if not sacrilegious. “If God is who He says He is, He doesn’t need us to twist and contort scientific data,” she says. “The thing that’s most important to God is our faith. Therefore, He’s not going to allow Himself to be proven by scientific methodologies.”

Some creationists, noting Schweitzer’s evangelical faith, have tried to pressure her into siding with them. “It is high time that the ‘Scientific’ community comes clean: meaning that the public is going to hold them ACCOUNTABLE when they find out that they have been misled,” reads a recent e-mail message Schweitzer received. She has received dozens of similar notes, a few of them outright menacing.

These religious attacks wound her far more than the scientific ones. “It rips my guts out,” she says. “These people are claiming to represent the Christ that I love. They’re not doing a very good job. It’s no wonder that a lot of my colleagues are atheists.” She told one zealot, “You know, if the only picture of Christ I had was your attitude towards me, I’d run.”

Ironically, the insides of Cretaceous-era dinosaur bones have only deepened Schweitzer’s faith. “My God has gotten so much bigger since I’ve been a scientist,” she says. “He doesn’t stay in my boxes.”

SCHWEITZER’S RESEARCH DOESN’T STAY WITHIN FAMILIAR BOUNDARIES either. Now there is no clear limit to how far science can go in bringing back the past. In particular, the letters DNA are never far from anyone’s lips. “If there’s preservation of cells, maybe there’s preservation of the constituents of the cells,” anatomist Lawrence Witmer says. “It could allow some of the molecular and genetic studies done on modern animals to be potentially used on dinosaur samples.” Although scientists consider DNA unstable, in 2003 Schweitzer published a paper outlining several proposed ways the molecule might be preserved. For example, the degradation process itself might produce complex polymers that slow the DNA’s further destruction.

At the mention of DNA, minds race to science fiction depictions of cloned dinosaurs. In 2005 a Scottish newspaper announced that, thanks to Schweitzer’s work, “scientists are a step closer to… bringing the most savage predator ever to walk the earth back from extinction.” Even the National Science Foundation blurred the line. When it awarded Horner a grant to study T. rex blood cells years ago, the agency timed the announcement to coincide with the theatrical release of Jurassic Park.

Schweitzer scoffs at visions of dinosaur parks. If anyone ever finds dinosaur DNA, she says, it will be fragmented and incomplete. In the unlikely event that scientists could reconstruct a complete dinosaur genome, she doubts that any modern animal could produce an egg capable of growing a dinosaur embryo. And even if that hurdle could be crossed, a viable dinosaur might not last long in 2006: “As far as we know, the way the lung tissue functioned, the way the hemoglobin functioned, was designed for an atmosphere that’s very different than today’s.”

Truth is, Schweitzer hasn’t even bothered to look for DNA. She has simply hunkered down to work in her characteristic way: keeping her eyes and her attitude wide open. “So many things are coming together that suggest preservation is far better than we’ve ever given it credit for,” she says. “I think it’s stupid to say, ‘You’re never going to get DNA out of dinosaur bone, you’re never going to get proteins out of dinosaur bone, you’re never going to do this, you’re never going to do that.’ As a scientist, I don’t think you should ever use the word never.”

https://barryyeoman.com/2006/04/schweitzers-dangerous-discovery/

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Otangelo


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https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.8327889

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com

Otangelo


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‘Schweitzer’s dangerous discovery’
by David Catchpoole and Jonathan Sarfati
https://creation.com/schweitzers-dangerous-discovery

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Otangelo


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https://www.icr.org/article/more-trex-soft-tissues

January 1, 2009 Fenton chemistry in biology and medicine Josef Prousek
https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1351/pac200779122325/html

Carbon-14-dated dinosaur bones, non permineralized fossils, and soft tissue like proteins are evidence of young fossils - Page 3 Fenton10

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Otangelo


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"Co-author Dr Farid Saleh added: “This discovery represents a paradigm shift in our understanding of what pyrite can preserve in the fossil record. We’ve previously thought that pyrite coarsely replaced tissues during fossilization. These micro-fossils are very small and highly detailed, demonstrating that pyritization can replicate soft tissues at the micron scale and must have occurred in hours, rather than over days, months, or millions of years. Otherwise, these prokaryotes would have not been preserved."
Rapid burial again!!! I think it is the norm. Conjures up visions of floods.

https://indiaeducationdiary.in/extraordinary-discovery-treasure-trove-of-110-million-year-old-fossilized-single-celled-organisms-unearthed/

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